BSA Super Ten in .25? BSA didn't, maybe I should ??? :)

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Jun 3, 2018
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California, United States
Anyone that has been horrified by my aberrations and seen that I have a fondness for the BSA Super Ten, also knows that I really like carbines. That's why I have two Super Tens that I got creative with and made carbines out of in .177 and .22. Through a bit of horse trading with another member, I wound up with another Super Ten in .22 a couple of months ago. 

My .177 got modified to accept the "new" magazines for other BSA models, that eliminates the ratchet mechanism and simplifies everything. Since I now had two .22 guns, I figured I would order some of the "new" magazines and set both up for this style. Any BSA magazine, in any caliber, is a pain to source and I had to wait for the ones I ordered to come off backorder. My order finally arrived and I didn't look closely at what I got. Several days later I took them out and realized that instead of four .22 magazines, I had inadvertently received two .22 and two .25 magazines. I contacted the vendor and they were awesome and ready to make an immediate correction, but instead, I purchased two additional magazines in .22 and said I'd keep the .25 mags since they might come in useful down the road. 

Here is my thought, make a new bolt/probe, fit a 250mm .25 barrel and rework the cigar like I did on the .177 with a regulated quick fill assembly and ditch the factory regulator. I'd also add a C/F bottle. Here's the .177 thread https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/new-technology-for-a-bsa-mkii-super10-177/?referrer=1

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I really, really like carbines and I don't have aspirations of a 60FPE monster, since I have those already. If I can manage 15-20FPE (25gr. 550-600fps) I would be perfectly content. I just like the idea of making something that the factory didn't and making a set of the three calibers.

So my curiosity is whether or not there are any other loonies that actually like this idea. Anyone that knows me, realizes I'm a bit daft and prone to do things that irritate the mainstream culture, just because I can. I'd love to hear any thoughts, whether in favor, or demanding that I must be immediately burned at the stake.

Mark 
 
vmaxpro,

Thanks for the support, it's reassuring that there is someone else that sees an idea like this having merit.

Bear in mind, I might be able to achieve that kind of power, but I won't make that as a requirement. I have one of my Leshiy's, in .25, dialed down to 19FPE and it's crazy quiet, but hits like a sledgehammer if a bunny happens to be in the way. That gun is a treat to shoot and wonderfully accurate once you understand the looping trajectory. My Rapid MKII is a solid 60FPE gun and I have an Edgun R3M right on its tail, plus an untested Impact sitting around, so powerhouses are not a necessity. If it can manage in between, that would be an unexpected bonus. 

I have to be clear though, I'll only want to use 250mm of barrel to make my power in and I'll want the package with moderator/shroud to stay as short as its peers while maintaining a low sound signature. I may do this in stages, make the new bolt and fit a barrel, just to validate the functionality. As component costs then come into the equation, I can then rework the cigar for the quick fill regulator assembly. A Super Ten without a quick fill upgrade is a pain in the rear end and one of the few weaknesses of the original design, so I consider that a must have component. A carbon fiber bottle is an expensive, but worthwhile, upgrade in respect to weight, so what the heck.

As usual, I have too many projects, but I can knock out the barrel and probe quickly to see how it behaves and then make the decision to spend some cash and wait for the parts to make their way across the Atlantic. If only the air cylinders from the AGT Uragan were available as a component, I'd prefer to use them as they are 50mm in diameter. The normal cylinder used by pretty much everyone else are 60mm. That's what I had to use on my .177 and it doesn't allow for the OEM shroud to be used.

I'll see if I can work on it this weekend to machine a bolt and barrel, but no promises.

Mark
 
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No worries. The carbine aspect and a non-factory caliber is the draw for me. I like how fast and nimble that platform becomes when you lighten them up and knock about 9" off the overall length. 

The blank I have is plenty long and I might leave it full length during initial function testing, but as my chronograph is a bit wacky, I'm not in a good situation for testing velocity and performance. We'll see what happens.

Mark
 
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I love that idea. Here in Canada our pistols are regulated to shoot at under 500 fps. I have a PP700SA that I converted and I use it for hunting only. The big .25 even at a low 450fps shooting the JSB kings just works. I don’t shoot at any distance past 20 yards at live animals with this short pistol but I have yet to have either partridge or rabbit walk or fly away after being hit . It’s sporting a short 10” barrel and is quiet at that low a velocity. 
 
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It could be a fun project, but I don’t see much of a benefit by doing so. I understand that you’re ok without have a monster.25, but your pellets will rainbow like OZ on a good day.

I had an S10 in .22 and she was both powerful and accurate for the standards of that era. I sold her and “graduated” to a RAW in .22. Now I am considering parting with my RAW for a Red Wolf in .22. Are we ever satisfied?

top
 
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top, 

Nothing new to deal with a rainbow trajectory. I once lobbed 3 pellets out of my Leshiy into a group that all three touched at 50yds. THAT WAS A BLAST!!! I know normal people are always questing for more power and accuracy, but I'm telling you that I love what you can do with low power. Again, I have my pick of sledgehammers if I want it, but I already have two Super Ten carbines and would love to built the "what if" model. 

I'm not criticizing your choices, mine just happen to be different. Make me a deal and I'll gladly take that "obsolete" RAW off your hands to fund your next step in airgun perfection. I have something for everything and not ashamed to be diverse. I'm blessed with the ability to make things and have the equipment to do it with, that's a huge factor in why I do things. 

I hardly ever get out anymore to the range and I live in an urban environment that doesn't allow me to even tinker in my yard, but I have fun.

Hobbyman2007 appreciates what a slow big chunk of lead is capable of. It's not ideal for most people, but it's satisfying when it gets there and plasters a huge grin on your face.

Please understand that I'm not being antagonistic towards you. I respect your opinion, but my intentions are different for this creation. 

I'm the first one to admit I have some daffy ideas, but that's why I became a gunsmith so many years ago. I didn't want to pay some other fool to build them and I had fun along the way.

Mark
 
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I think you should. I love me a low/mid powered .25 cal. Between PCPs and springers in .25 cal I've had a total of 11 (BSAs, Cometas, Hatsans, HWs and Webleys) that shot from 13.5 fpe to 31+ fpe. No issues with trajectory or hunting out to 33 yards. One of my favorites was a BSA Ultra SE in .25 tuned by Nick at Air Superiority to 13.5 fpe - HUMA regulated. I recently sold a Cometa in .25 cal that was putting out 31+ fpe, I purchased it with the sole purpose of regulating and detuning it. I was also going to buy an unregulated Daystate Revere or Huntsman in .25 in the last couple of weeks with the hopes of tuning it down to 15 to 18 fpe but AOA told me they weren't designed for that and I'm really not a tuner.
 
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Serdac,

Sounds like you have had fun travelling the slow road quite a bit in the past with some of your .25's. I love how easy it was to drop the velocity in my Leshiy, just a matter of hammer spring tension and no other mods. I'll wind up making it a bit more complicated with a build like this because of the machine work to eliminate the factory regulator and to incorporate a Huma regulated quick fill. Like yourself, I don't consider myself that savvy as a tuner, I basically set things where I figure they should work and call it quits. 

Mark
 
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I did some playing around with a brocock .25 today. Normally Its shootin 75fpe. I dropped the reg way down, shortened the hammer travel to almost nothing and started tuning to get 500fps with jsb 25.4’s. It was alot of fun! Id prob get over 500 shots lol. Anyhow, 500fps .25 dropped 6 rats tonight. Knocks them clear off the rocks. Im not gonna leave the gun at that tune, but it was certainly a blast. I bet that new bsa in walnut .25 tuned to around 550-600 would be perfect! Hmmm...
 
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vmaxpro,

That's great to hear that you gave that a try. I'm not trying to convert the masses in favor of lobbing .25's along, but having at least one set up just for giggles is nice if you have a gun that you can set up easily that way. There is an odd satisfaction when that big pellet lumbers into a critter. The first time I whacked a rabbit was at 5am, just as I was leaving for work and it was still dark. I figured I could eliminate one of the denizens munching on my lawn without anyone being the wiser. The Leshiy went "Phtt" and the pellet hitting the rabbit went "THWOP!!!" I panicked a bit because the impact was so loud and quickly disposed of the evidence and zipped off to work. Even at 590FPS that pellet was lights out for a heart/lung shot and a confirmation shot went completely through the skull. 

You give me ideas for a full size .25 set up for max efficiency and shot count at reduced power, I'll have to think about which gun I have that could become a Guinea pig. I have an old Impact MKI that I've never used, maybe I could set that one up since it has all the original bits in it and isn't modified for power like the later ones. 

I'm going to disassemble the action tonight after work and start measuring what I need to make new parts. Let the games begin!

Mark


 
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top, 

Great suggestion for potential donors, but I already have a few barrels that will be donor material and I'll be spending money on the Huma unit and a bottle. This is one of those typical projects that you invest way more than is sensible, but you get what you want. In my case, an act of questionable sanity 😁. 

I hadn't thought about the "green" pellet aspect, but with ever increasing scrutiny on lead, it's worth considering. That's where a physically larger pellet makes up for the reduced weight and the .25 might be a solid option.

I'm planning on trying to dodge my husband duties for a bit tomorrow and get some time in the shop. I'll eventually have to face the war department, but maybe I can make some solid progress on this endeavor. 

Mark
 
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Okay, it's been a productive day. Tore the rifle down, found a used Lothar Walther blank and made a new barrel. Only trick pony was grinding an internal grooving tool for the barrel O-ring. Not a big deal, but it was the only tooling item I had to make for this. The bolt was hardened, which surprised me, but a carbide mill in the tailstock of my lathe finally bored that out. I made a new end for the bolt out of drill rod and secured it with sleeve retainer. 

Got it all pieced back together and put the factory cigar and bottle back on it to test it out. Eight rounds loaded, eight rounds fired. I need to do some smoothing of the guts to get it to cycle a bit smoother, but it worked fine. As it's currently set up, it's got quite a bit of power, I'm still using the donor barrel at full length and the cigar is set up for FAC levels. Once I'm ready to do something, I'll cut the barrel back to 250mm and set the new regulator at a more docile level. 

I'm just pleased that I was able to focus and get all this done in one sitting. I probably have about six hours into it at a leisurely pace and that includes teardown and reassembly.

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Well that's it for now. Until our next episode 😁

Mark
 
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