Hi Marty, Yes the bronze bearings replace the delrin bearings. As Stevoo mentioned above, we can get a better fit without as much risk of it getting too tight in the summer months. More stable with changes in temperature.
Steve
Upvote 0
Bronze bushing for Tony Leach skirtless piston
- Thread starter JP806TX
- Start date
Steve
If you are asking is there anything as an unseen bad thing in choosing PB bearings over Delrin, then the answer is no.
A tough self lubricating material which has a great low coefficient bearing on steel….used for eons in other none related industry with no ill effects over long periods of time.
Only reason its not chosen is one of cost. Cheap plastic kits are all about cost, which also includes low postage costs, raw material cost and fast production times.
A tough self lubricating material which has a great low coefficient bearing on steel….used for eons in other none related industry with no ill effects over long periods of time.
Only reason its not chosen is one of cost. Cheap plastic kits are all about cost, which also includes low postage costs, raw material cost and fast production times.
Upvote 0
OMG
it sounds like if I have a "tight" Delrin spring guide. I might be loosing power still with warmer weather ...with my Tony Leach set up?
Gawd...damn. Now I'll need to somehow obtain a metallic spring guide. Looks like more tinkering/shopping and less shooting in my future.
Upvote 0
Wow, this thread really blows my mind!
I thought I was going crazy last summer with really crappy FT match scores. I have 3 Tony Leach Kits (one 20mm and two 22mm) in various TX200's (both WFTF and HFT, plus a spare). I set them up in the basement at 11.5 fpe or less, where it's cool and practice in the evenings and at night, where it's cool again. Then on match day, I would start out good (cool morning) and tank badly by mid-match (when it got hotter). One match, the pellet was 2" off (low and right) where I was aiming right after a very hot lane in the sun. I even started to bring a FX chrony along with me to help diagnose the problems. I suspected it was possibly the fancy lube, but Tony mentioned delrin changing size, I could not image it would affect that much. It is sure a relief to find out others were having a similar problem. I was about to give up on springers and go the PCP route like everyone else, especially if I was going to try WFTF.
Anyway, is there a way to get retrofit kits from Tony (or Steve) or do I have to have them made for my kits? I just got a lathe, but discovered after 40+ years not using one, that I am not very good at turning stuff yet. I am working on it, just taking more time to re-learn than I thought (so much for the barrel turning I had planned
)
Thanks for the eye opener!
Daniel Putz
I thought I was going crazy last summer with really crappy FT match scores. I have 3 Tony Leach Kits (one 20mm and two 22mm) in various TX200's (both WFTF and HFT, plus a spare). I set them up in the basement at 11.5 fpe or less, where it's cool and practice in the evenings and at night, where it's cool again. Then on match day, I would start out good (cool morning) and tank badly by mid-match (when it got hotter). One match, the pellet was 2" off (low and right) where I was aiming right after a very hot lane in the sun. I even started to bring a FX chrony along with me to help diagnose the problems. I suspected it was possibly the fancy lube, but Tony mentioned delrin changing size, I could not image it would affect that much. It is sure a relief to find out others were having a similar problem. I was about to give up on springers and go the PCP route like everyone else, especially if I was going to try WFTF.
Anyway, is there a way to get retrofit kits from Tony (or Steve) or do I have to have them made for my kits? I just got a lathe, but discovered after 40+ years not using one, that I am not very good at turning stuff yet. I am working on it, just taking more time to re-learn than I thought (so much for the barrel turning I had planned
)Thanks for the eye opener!
Daniel Putz
Upvote 0
Hey, you will probably be ok ….do not panic.
The critical area thrown up here is when we have super close tolerances for the piston bearings.
Tony tried to build in very high quality to his limits and fits, in an effort to remove even the smallest amounts of slop from the piston running in the chamber. He should be commended for his effort, but you just cannot do this with Delrin….because you must allow for 0.15mm to 0.2mm of thermal expansion.
So….If working with minimal 0.1mm clearances, you have a significant chance of a piston ending up with an interference fit with Delrin.
However, your spring guide is not nearly so critical, especially if not made tight in the first place.
Maybe +-10 fps rise and fall from this component…but obviously if running a Tinbum type guide thats a good shove fit, you are going to get issues with temp variation.
I noticed many shooters who would set there rifles up shooting ragged one holers all day long, then the following day their zero had shifted. It is their Delrin components reacting to varying temperatures.
Its interesting that the FWB 300 match series of rifles and the FWB 65/80 pistols would hold zero every day, regardless of temp, never shifting zero as they ran steel piston rings on steel chambers…Any slight thermal expansion would be uniform to the 2 components, but steel hardly suffering in respect of thermal expansion (0.02) when compared to Acetals and Nylons. (0.1 to 0.2mm)
Ive had a long held opinion that OEM manufactured guns….Air Arms/ HW etc may well shoot with more damped cycles when switching to Delrin kits, telling the shooter this has to be better but IMO not nearly so thermally consistent day to day. The shooter then left puzzled and asking questions. Is it lube, pellets, me etc….
Its all over the forums that this happens for no apparent reason.
Its tight tolerance Delrin components ..sometimes Moly thickening …often both.
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Wow, this thread really blows my mind!
I thought I was going crazy last summer with really crappy FT match scores. I have 3 Tony Leach Kits (one 20mm and two 22mm) in various TX200's (both WFTF and HFT, plus a spare). I set them up in the basement at 11.5 fpe or less, where it's cool and practice in the evenings and at night, where it's cool again. Then on match day, I would start out good (cool morning) and tank badly by mid-match (when it got hotter). One match, the pellet was 2" off (low and right) where I was aiming right after a very hot lane in the sun. I even started to bring a FX chrony along with me to help diagnose the problems. I suspected it was possibly the fancy lube, but Tony mentioned delrin changing size, I could not image it would affect that much. It is sure a relief to find out others were having a similar problem. I was about to give up on springers and go the PCP route like everyone else, especially if I was going to try WFTF.
Anyway, is there a way to get retrofit kits from Tony (or Steve) or do I have to have them made for my kits? I just got a lathe, but discovered after 40+ years not using one, that I am not very good at turning stuff yet. I am working on it, just taking more time to re-learn than I thought (so much for the barrel turning I had planned
Thanks for the eye opener!
Daniel Putz
I don’t think Tony does a 20mm version, just 21 & 22mm. The 21mm version has to go to him to be fitted.
Upvote 0
Since we are on the subject of the Tony Leach kit I wonder if he has experimented with using a gas ram design yet?
I’m not a fan of gas rams but… I think gas rams might have an acceleration advantage relative to springs, thus they could have an efficiency advantage over a coil spring at the same power input and also less vibration… of course making a custom diameter gas ram piston assembly would be harder than making a traditional piston.
-Marty
I’m not a fan of gas rams but… I think gas rams might have an acceleration advantage relative to springs, thus they could have an efficiency advantage over a coil spring at the same power input and also less vibration… of course making a custom diameter gas ram piston assembly would be harder than making a traditional piston.
-Marty
Upvote 0
I don’t think so. He doesn’t use forums much, so the best way to ask questions is to join his facebook group.
Springers:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447138175311176
PCPs (less activity!)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/508150769563085/members
Springers:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447138175311176
PCPs (less activity!)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/508150769563085/members
Upvote 0
I do not think he will go Gas Ram.
…and the reason for all his development work on Springers.
The Gas Ram is passe….may have already had its day.
It seemed like a great idea at the time, but is often more slammy and prone to leakage down the line.
…and the reason for all his development work on Springers.
The Gas Ram is passe….may have already had its day.
It seemed like a great idea at the time, but is often more slammy and prone to leakage down the line.
Last edited:
Upvote 0