“Comparison is the thief of joy.” ― Theodore Roosevelt Today I found some time to play a little game of versus. As previously noted, there's the XFT match tomorrow, so my first order of business today was shooting through all the distances, 20-100 yards. Of course I did that with the Ghost, but also performed the exact same process with my personal Veteran Long. The intent here is that I want to shoot the gun that I think gives me the best chance at winning, so, comparison was working towards figuring out which of the two that is. I also like having a back-up gun in case something happens with the primary, I can still shoot the match and not completely waste a 3 hr drive, each way.
The ¨Long¨ version on the Vet Long can be found here:
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/veteran-long-re-barrel-x2.847527/ The short version is that it is a Vet Long that has had 3 or 4 different barrels on it, but mostly lives with a 23 inch unchoked Lothar, 12 land and groove in .22, and that's what was on it today. It also has a single plenum addition. Reg pressure of about 140bar, OEM hammer spring with zero preloading shims. It's good for 45 shots per fill at 45 fpe, pushing the 25.4grain Monster RDs at an average of 885-890.
I haven't updated that link on the Vet for awhile, but I shot it at Extreme/American Field Target at EBR in Oct and placed 3rd in the Sportsman Division (.22 class). Suffice it to say, it is a very accurate gun, that I really like.
So call it a comparison of 45 shots at 45fpe (Vet) versus 50 shots at 50fpe (Ghost).
Here they are, laying next to each other.
So this process was interesting. I have three pellet traps and I walk out and put them at, for example 20, 25, and 30 yards. I then walk back and shoot those distances and compare impact points to turret location (or holdover) and Strelok, and record the data. Shooting is done from the position I will be competing with, in his case ¨bucket and sticks.¨ I then walk back out and move the traps to the next three distances: 35, 40, 45. And so on until I've shot all the distances from 20-100 yards. This time though, I shot each of the three distances with both guns before moving the traps. Going back and forth between the two guns made all the differences very apparent.
Some of the impressions I recorded during this session;
(keep in mind that I think very highly of the Veteran platform, enough that I own duplicates)
- I prefer the general ergonomics of the Ghost, over those of the Veteran
- I prefer the shot cycle of the Veteran over the Ghost's
- This ¨tune¨ of the Ghost has picked up a sort of ¨thwannggggggg¨ sound at the shot. This is likely due to my addition of the hammer weight b/c it doesn't do it without that hammer weight.
- Both triggers are VERY good, but the Vet's is a bit better, and only b/c the break is more crisp/distinct.
- I like my curved buttpad addition on the Vet more than the Ghost's buttpad.
- The muzzle report of the Ghost (in this config of 0DB + custom shroud) is quieter than that of the Vet. And the Ghost is putting out about 5 more fpe. And this one surprised me b/c I've always felt like this Vet Long with the baffled shroud was pretty quiet.
- I prefer shorter guns so I like the OAL of the Vet more than that of the Ghost. Although even the Ghost HP is much shorter than most bench howitzers being used in long range airgun comps these days.
- They are equal in feeling ¨solid.¨
- Set up like this, neither are light guns. And some of that solid feel comes from the weight. They both have real, honest to gosh 15mm barrels, both of which are 23 inches long. There's some weight in that much steel. And for target use, that's a good thing.
- When I say they both feel equally solid I'm saying that neither feel weak, or flimsy, or chintzy. Nothing on either gun makes me think, ¨oh, THAT'S gonna break eventually.¨
- The contoured cheek rest on the Ghost is a more comfortable experience than the breech of the Vet, that serves as its cheek rest.
- Of course the rear-cocking of the Veteran versus the mid-cocking of the Ghost...
- I single feed when I'm target shooting, and really, when the process is to cock, then load a pellet, then close the lever, then shoot, there's no benefit to either location. The way I see it, the debate over cocking location is strictly for the 100% magazine users.
- Single feed is easier with the open breech/easy access of the Vet versus the harder to get to barrel on the Ghost.
- And finally, they're neck and neck in the accuracy department. As I went through the process, neither pulled ahead as the obviously more accurate gun. Which prompted the next part of my fun comparison today....BC collections.
So, if all the pros and cons each way are a wash, including the accuracy, perhaps the MRDs coming out of one of these guns has a slightly better BC than the other? Better BC makes wind guesses and hold-offs not nearly as critical. Maybe one of the two guns will pull ahead in that department....got set up for some bc collections.
Comparisons of the Ballistic Coefficient Now this is interesting because it is a polygonal barrel versus an unchoked 12 land and groove. There has been much discussion about better BCs coming from polygonal than from traditional rifling.
See here for more on that, if interested....
A little history... A friend contacted me and asked if I would shorten a barrel on a BRK Commander to make it legal for pistol EFT. He was interested in that one because of the solid construction and bottle, which meant a good number of shots at the 20 ft lb level, vs the Atomic, which gets only...
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Having discussed this many times with different people, Franklink and I came up with a tentative plan and this is the first attempt to try to learn if the BARREL really can make a difference in the wind and if so... why and can it be measured. Now understand, this is going to be a somewhat...
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Have been told by some in the manufacturing business of high end AG's .... who use slow twist poly .177's @ 36-1 twist, that they do not work well and not recommended for 12fpe rifles. Having personally tried it, customers & friends try it .. IT DOES NOT WORK WELL & accuracy is sub par...
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Really good conditions for this type of testing, wind was almost non-existent, least amount of wind at my house for months. Humidity was 35-40%. Temps were 25-35 degrees during all this.
Chrono results from the Ghost at ¨10¨on the power wheel (where I like accuracy the best and would compete) - 10 shot average at the muzzle - 939.2 (ES of 3.5, SD of 1)
- 15 shot average at 63 yards - 802.1 (ES of 35.41, SD of 9.43)
- produces a ballistic coefficient of 0.057
- I didn't like the ES of the 15 shots at 63 yards. There are two outliers making the spread so large. Here they are, for those curious; 802.1, 801.6, 814.7, 803.5, 805.3, 798.9, 808, 779.3, 799.5, 805.1, 800.9, 800.6, 785.8, 811.6, 813.9. Red were the low ones.
- Tossing those two, gets an average of 805fps and an ES of 15.8, which I feel better about.
- THAT would be a BC of 0.058
Chrono results from the Vet Long (at settings I have found to produce the best accuracy and where I would compete) - 10 shot average at the muzzle - 885.8 (ES of 8.1, SD of 2.8)
- 15 shot average at 63 yards - 757.2 (ES of 50, SD of 15.77)
- produces a ballistic coefficient of 0.052
- Again, I didn't like the ES of the 15 shots at 63 yards. There are 3 outliers making the spread so large. Here they are; 757.3, 762.6, 747.9, 724.1, 769.4, 774.4, 736.5, 765.6, 757.3, 767.3, 773.5, 729.3, 765.3, 769.4, 757.6, Red are the 3 low shots.
- Tossing out those 3, gets an average of 763.97fps and an ES of 26.5, which is a bit better.
- THAT would be a BC of 0.056
Chrono results from the Ghost at ¨MIN¨ (for science) Since I was all set up I decided to see what sort of BCs the poly would do at speeds more similar to what the Vet does. This is just with the power wheel, to get it all the way down to the same speed as the Vet I'd need to drop the reg a bit too. You'll notice the ES at the muzzle isn't as good here as it is at 935-940fps, and that's probably because the hammer spring tension and regulator aren't at optimal settings for consistency like they seem to be for my competition tune.
- 10 shot average at muzzle - 900.2 (ES of 14.6, SD of 4.7)
- 15 shot average at 63 yards- 782.9 (ES of 29.38, SD of 10)
- Produces a ballistic coefficient of 0.061
Conclusions Lol, not sure I made any concrete conclusions from all of the above. In fact, if anything, I lost a bit of confidence in the Vet, seeing how big of a spread my pellets have downrange from that gun. They have consistent muzzle velocities, but something is happing to them between 0 and 63 yards where some are losing speed MUCH faster than others. Could be pellet lot related but needs further investigating. Whatever the cause, this could be the smoking gun for what some airgun competitors feel is the curse of the .22 Monster RD. Some of those guys have gotten so disgusted with the occasional ¨what the hell!!!!¨flyer that they've completely abandoned this pellet and moved on to other high BC options. As for the Ghost, the highest BC from the day was with those MRDs going down around 900fps, versus the 935-940 that I've been pushing them. I like how the pellets coming from the poly barrel are consistent in speed downrange, and if anything, that is probably the tie-breaker between the Ghost versus the Veteran.
The BC is slightly better from the polygonal barrel in the Ghost than it was from the 12 land and groove in the Vet, and that's true for muzzle velocity averaging 940 or 900.
And really, I'm getting pretty nit-picky going to these lengths to assess accuracy and try to figure out which one is the better choice for competitions. They're both great guns that I really enjoy and I'm fortunate to be stuck with the first-world problem of deciding which of the two I should compete with tomorrow.
Hope you enjoyed my ramblings. I had fun putting this one together (mostly the shooting part),
