@Franklink, your deep dive reviews have always reflected your honesty… Your technical expertise is much appreciated. Its understood that you are not a salesman…
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BRK Ghost Review
- Thread starter Franklink
- Start date
Thanks Cole... I'm interested in buying one (we have our order in through Derrick @zx10wall) in .25 caliber. I'd like to turn it into a Slugger, the same basic barrel in the Red Wolf shoots the 37 grain ZANs lights out. Should have enough power to push them at 950 fps+. If it's as good as I think it will be, it'll be replacing my .25 Impact slugger...
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I was about to buy a Ghost in .25 Cal.... And will probably buy one in the near future. I am of the idea that it needs a 700 cc air bottle. The number of shots per fill shown in the Jared Clark video is not so good (30 are very few shots per fill).
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Mike,
you are probably already aware of the fitments but I'm not 100% positive the Red Wolf barrels are interchangeable with the Ghost. The Delta Wolf on the other hand are interchangeable. So you may not be looking at an apples to apples comparison shooting those 37 Zan's.
Thx
Dan
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Yes, they’re not. I was just inferring that the current ART barrels on the Ghost should be internally similar to the Red Wolf.
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" I am of the idea that it needs a 700 cc air bottle. The number of shots per fill shown in the Jared Clark video is not so good (30 are very few shots per fill)."
In case you missed it, Jared was pushing the 33.4s at 975. Doesn't seem like a bad shot count for that pl.
Centercut is correct in that the barrel are the same profile , but not interchangeable between the RW and DW/Ghost. A real ART (not just ART approved) barrel in 22 has found it's way onto some of the recent DW's, so maybe also on the Ghost. It's a VERY good shooting barrel for pellets but I guess some people want EVERYTHING and it wouldn't shoot slugs well. I'm waiting for it to be available for the RW
Bob
In case you missed it, Jared was pushing the 33.4s at 975. Doesn't seem like a bad shot count for that pl.
Centercut is correct in that the barrel are the same profile , but not interchangeable between the RW and DW/Ghost. A real ART (not just ART approved) barrel in 22 has found it's way onto some of the recent DW's, so maybe also on the Ghost. It's a VERY good shooting barrel for pellets but I guess some people want EVERYTHING and it wouldn't shoot slugs well. I'm waiting for it to be available for the RW
Bob
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The AoA video does not show the gun being shot until it comes off the regulator. The velocity with the 33.95 pellets was 955 FPS.
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I will be watching for you to do this and see how it works out. I was thinking about a Red Wolf, but this rifle is changing my mind.
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The Case
The Ghost comes with a pretty nice case. Heavy duty, solid.
Four clasps
"Feet" for it to stand vertical
And finally, some pre-cut out areas for various accessories. Magazine look like they'd go two-deep, so four magazines total. I'm guessing that upper right cubbie is for a curved butt-pad?
View attachment 302993
Nice, solid case.
The Ghost comes with a pretty nice case. Heavy duty, solid.
Four clasps
"Feet" for it to stand vertical
And finally, some pre-cut out areas for various accessories. Magazine look like they'd go two-deep, so four magazines total. I'm guessing that upper right cubbie is for a curved butt-pad?
View attachment 302993
Nice, solid case.
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I have yet to read ART barrels works with slugs. Daystate did introduce the ART rifling for shooting pellets and slugs in mind. So far its pellets only. An older type Daystate with a standard LW barrel are much more versatile. Daystate apparently doesn`t test their guns with slugs. Daystate no smart. That I have a Revere that accidently shoots perfect with slugs is merely a pure luck." A real ART (not just ART approved) barrel in 22 has found it's way onto some of the recent DW's, so maybe also on the Ghost. It's a VERY good shooting barrel for pellets but I guess some people want EVERYTHING and it wouldn't shoot slugs well. I'm waiting for it to be available for the RW
Bob
As for the Ghost. Its actually a good looking bullpub of a being a bullpub. BUt please no ART barrel.
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Small update from some chrono work....
We last left the Ghost with desires to shoot .22/25.4grain Monster RDs.
We had discovered that the Ghost Carbine (at least in .177) comes with a skeletonized/reduced weight hammer and had concluded that I could really benefit from the heavier hammer weight that comes in the non-Carbine Ghost configs. While I optimistically await the hammer that comes in the HP Ghost, I had made a hammer weight to add to the Carbine's light hammer, for testing purposes. So, I was using that 57.3grain hammer weight with the skeletonized .177 Carbine specific hammer weight, the 0.051" wire hammer spring, the threaded nose of the hammer extended about 1/8' and a regulator pressure of 138 BAR. Those settings was giving me about 965fps (about 52-53fpe) but minimal adjustability from the hammer spring tension adjustment because all the fps output were 8-10fps from 965fps.
So, I put most of a fill over the chrono this afternoon, and found that all shots were descending in fps. I was already suspecting that I was smacking the valve too hard because the fps wouldn't come down with less hammer spring tension, and the descending shot string confirmed that. I decided to take some more weight off the hammer weight and took it down to 38.2grains. Reassembled and found the same problem as before, descending shot string, and adjusting the hammer tension wasn't doing much to energy output. Still too much energy on the valve from the hammer strike.
At this point there's not too much left of that little hammer weight to grind on, and it's getting small and tough to hold while I'm working on it....I decided to swap out the 0.051 hammer spring for the 0.047 hammer spring that it came with as a .177 carbine, BUT, still using the 38.2grain hammer weight.
So I'm back to the original 0.047 hammer spring that came in the .177 Carbine but with a 38.2grain weight added to the hammer and a reg pressure of 138 BAR. In prior testing, 140 bar reg pressure could only produce about 850fps with this lighter spring, but that was without the 38.2grain hammer weight.
With minimum hammer spring tension I'm now getting an average of about 925fps
25% of available hammer spring tension produces an average of about 936fps
50% of available hammer spring tension produces an average of about 948
and maximum hammer spring tension produces an average of about 958.
Which gives me a range of 925-958fps to assess accuracy with, simply through adjusting the hammer spring tension.
All of that is super exciting, for two big reasons. The first is that that is essentially the range of speeds I've been wanting to work through to nail down the speed at which this barrel shoots the MRDS best. The second, and much more exciting than the first, is that going back to the lighter spring made the Ghost a mild-mannered, docile experience again. SOOO much quieter, SOOO much less wasted air, SOOO much more crisp on the shot cycle, reduced cocking effort, and I'm still getting 48-52foot pounds. Which is about where I was before, but with that hammer weight in conjunction with the 0.051 hammer spring, I had created an ugly, obnoxious, and truthfully, disappointing shot cycle.
Time and time again the Ghost surprises me by how vastly different the shot cycles can be, simply based on the combination of adjustments that it is being fed.
I'd still really like to get my hands on the correct Ghost hammer for this sort of power output in .22 (mostly for the purposes of creating a baseline for the review, using OEM parts), in the meantime my current "tune" seems like it'll work just fine.
Another point to take from all this is that a hammer weight difference of only 38.2 grains was the only change needed to take the gun from maxing out at 850fps, to going all the way up to 958fps. Yes, that's a difference of over 100fps and with this particular projectile, 11 more foot pounds. Remember that this hammer weighs 455.2 grains. I added only 38.2grains to it for that bump in energy output, all other settings being the same. Increasing the hammer weight by 8.5% amounted to a roughly 25% increase in power output. VERY fascinating valving.
So, weather forecast for tomorrow is saying 3-7mph winds, which is much better for 100 yard accuracy testing than the 50mph winds we had all day today. In short, tomorrow I'll be putting some lead downrange with my new-found docile 48-52fpe tune! I'm excited to see how it performs, and hopefully I'll have some good news to report after that accuracy assessment.
We last left the Ghost with desires to shoot .22/25.4grain Monster RDs.
We had discovered that the Ghost Carbine (at least in .177) comes with a skeletonized/reduced weight hammer and had concluded that I could really benefit from the heavier hammer weight that comes in the non-Carbine Ghost configs. While I optimistically await the hammer that comes in the HP Ghost, I had made a hammer weight to add to the Carbine's light hammer, for testing purposes. So, I was using that 57.3grain hammer weight with the skeletonized .177 Carbine specific hammer weight, the 0.051" wire hammer spring, the threaded nose of the hammer extended about 1/8' and a regulator pressure of 138 BAR. Those settings was giving me about 965fps (about 52-53fpe) but minimal adjustability from the hammer spring tension adjustment because all the fps output were 8-10fps from 965fps.
So, I put most of a fill over the chrono this afternoon, and found that all shots were descending in fps. I was already suspecting that I was smacking the valve too hard because the fps wouldn't come down with less hammer spring tension, and the descending shot string confirmed that. I decided to take some more weight off the hammer weight and took it down to 38.2grains. Reassembled and found the same problem as before, descending shot string, and adjusting the hammer tension wasn't doing much to energy output. Still too much energy on the valve from the hammer strike.
At this point there's not too much left of that little hammer weight to grind on, and it's getting small and tough to hold while I'm working on it....I decided to swap out the 0.051 hammer spring for the 0.047 hammer spring that it came with as a .177 carbine, BUT, still using the 38.2grain hammer weight.
So I'm back to the original 0.047 hammer spring that came in the .177 Carbine but with a 38.2grain weight added to the hammer and a reg pressure of 138 BAR. In prior testing, 140 bar reg pressure could only produce about 850fps with this lighter spring, but that was without the 38.2grain hammer weight.
With minimum hammer spring tension I'm now getting an average of about 925fps
25% of available hammer spring tension produces an average of about 936fps
50% of available hammer spring tension produces an average of about 948
and maximum hammer spring tension produces an average of about 958.
Which gives me a range of 925-958fps to assess accuracy with, simply through adjusting the hammer spring tension.
All of that is super exciting, for two big reasons. The first is that that is essentially the range of speeds I've been wanting to work through to nail down the speed at which this barrel shoots the MRDS best. The second, and much more exciting than the first, is that going back to the lighter spring made the Ghost a mild-mannered, docile experience again. SOOO much quieter, SOOO much less wasted air, SOOO much more crisp on the shot cycle, reduced cocking effort, and I'm still getting 48-52foot pounds. Which is about where I was before, but with that hammer weight in conjunction with the 0.051 hammer spring, I had created an ugly, obnoxious, and truthfully, disappointing shot cycle.
Time and time again the Ghost surprises me by how vastly different the shot cycles can be, simply based on the combination of adjustments that it is being fed.
I'd still really like to get my hands on the correct Ghost hammer for this sort of power output in .22 (mostly for the purposes of creating a baseline for the review, using OEM parts), in the meantime my current "tune" seems like it'll work just fine.
Another point to take from all this is that a hammer weight difference of only 38.2 grains was the only change needed to take the gun from maxing out at 850fps, to going all the way up to 958fps. Yes, that's a difference of over 100fps and with this particular projectile, 11 more foot pounds. Remember that this hammer weighs 455.2 grains. I added only 38.2grains to it for that bump in energy output, all other settings being the same. Increasing the hammer weight by 8.5% amounted to a roughly 25% increase in power output. VERY fascinating valving.
So, weather forecast for tomorrow is saying 3-7mph winds, which is much better for 100 yard accuracy testing than the 50mph winds we had all day today. In short, tomorrow I'll be putting some lead downrange with my new-found docile 48-52fpe tune! I'm excited to see how it performs, and hopefully I'll have some good news to report after that accuracy assessment.
The weather at my house has been making a long range accuracy assessment with the Monster RDs in the .22 poly barrel a bit tough. We've had 2 or 3 days with 50+mph gusts in the last 10 or so days, with most other days having gusts in the 25-30mph range. A "light" wind day for this time of year is anything under 20mph.
On Saturday I said to heck with "testing," and decided I'd shoot the Ghost just for fun. I've got it running at the 925-930fps settings, with Monster RDs (see most recent post I made here) so about 48-49fpe. I ran through a couple hundred pellets (tin and a half of the 200/tin JSB labeled tins). Shot a couple EBR cards at 100 yards and the high was a 226. There were a handful of sub-moa 5 shot groups during the 100 yard paper shooting. Also shot at the old brushhog blades that I have hanging at 120 and 135 yards, no issues with consistently hitting them, had about a 2 inch/10 shot group on the blade at 120 yards. Quite satisfying to "ring steel" so consistently, and they're just hanging by wire from the fence so that get a pretty good swing with each hit. I'm not seeing any spiraling or any deterioration of accuracy, at least out to 135 yards. Also shot some EBR cards at 75 yards but didn't score any of them, had a couple 75 yd groups where all five shots were touching! But also had the wind really get me on some of those 75 yarders (wind was getting worse as I shot). Shot a bunch of groups at 55 yards too.
Overall, I just generally enjoyed the gun, running through a bunch of pellets and a bunch of air.
Now, while I was mostly throwing lead for the fun of it, I did make some (hopefully) useful observations.
On Saturday I said to heck with "testing," and decided I'd shoot the Ghost just for fun. I've got it running at the 925-930fps settings, with Monster RDs (see most recent post I made here) so about 48-49fpe. I ran through a couple hundred pellets (tin and a half of the 200/tin JSB labeled tins). Shot a couple EBR cards at 100 yards and the high was a 226. There were a handful of sub-moa 5 shot groups during the 100 yard paper shooting. Also shot at the old brushhog blades that I have hanging at 120 and 135 yards, no issues with consistently hitting them, had about a 2 inch/10 shot group on the blade at 120 yards. Quite satisfying to "ring steel" so consistently, and they're just hanging by wire from the fence so that get a pretty good swing with each hit. I'm not seeing any spiraling or any deterioration of accuracy, at least out to 135 yards. Also shot some EBR cards at 75 yards but didn't score any of them, had a couple 75 yd groups where all five shots were touching! But also had the wind really get me on some of those 75 yarders (wind was getting worse as I shot). Shot a bunch of groups at 55 yards too.
Overall, I just generally enjoyed the gun, running through a bunch of pellets and a bunch of air.
Now, while I was mostly throwing lead for the fun of it, I did make some (hopefully) useful observations.
- The first was that it seems to be more tolerant of junky batches than the barrel in my personal long range/high power .22. I've got most of two sleeves of MRDs that I labeled simply "BAD" after shooting them from my personal gun a while back. Since I was shooting in the wind, and mostly throwing lead for fun, I figured it'd be a good time to use those "bad" pellets. Well, I was surprised to see them flying pretty true. All of the little glimpses of potential mentioned above were the the "bad" batch. Pellets from those two batches won't shoot anywhere nearly as accurately from my personal gun. So having a barrel that seems a bit more tolerant to junky batches is kinda cool, considering how much variation we're seeing from batch to batch with the MRDs.
- Second was that I'm good for 34 shots, from 250 bar, down to 140 bar, before shots start impacting low @ 100 yards. And that's still with the 300cc bottle from the Carbine. Daystate lists the plenum for the Delta/Alpha, (and therefore the Ghost since they all use the same frame and valve) at 34ccs. That makes it somewhere in the ballpark of 1650fpe/334ccs, or about 5fpe/cc.
- When the valve is removed, one can look into the back of the "tunnel" where the valve lives and see nothing but a straight shot all the way through the frame up to the regulator. I didn't measure diameter of the valve, but it's bigger around than my thumb, I'd guess around 3/4 of an inch, which makes that plenum/channel the same. Valve in red here, plenum in green, rough estimation.
- When the valve is removed, one can look into the back of the "tunnel" where the valve lives and see nothing but a straight shot all the way through the frame up to the regulator. I didn't measure diameter of the valve, but it's bigger around than my thumb, I'd guess around 3/4 of an inch, which makes that plenum/channel the same. Valve in red here, plenum in green, rough estimation.
- Third, purely anecdotal, but it seems like I don't need to hold off as much in the wind with the Ghost as I do with my personal long range/high power gun. There are a couple of potential reasons for that, polygonal rifling versus 12 land and groove, and a little more FPE with the Ghost than with my personal gun. I'll need to shoot them side by side on the same day, in roughly the same wind to better assess this.
- Fourth, while it was mostly a fun session, I did do a bit of informal barrel rigidity testing. There was some discussion recently about the Delta/Alpha/Ghost frame and barrel configuration not producing consistent point of impacts. Well, I didn't see that problem, even in the slightest, with the .177/20fpe testing but thought I maybe better check it out with the .22/48fpe. So, at 55 yards I shot a "control" group to verify zero. Then I pushed the barrel upwards, while pulling the gun the opposite direction with the other hand. I gave it a pretty serious tug, much more than any of my guns would ever see in actual use, at least by me. Then I shot another group. I repeated that with "down" "left" and "right" Interestingly enough, and only sometimes, the first 1 or 2 shots would be about 3/8 of an inch in the direction I pulled/pushed, and then on the 2nd or 3rd shot it'd be impacting back where it had before the test torque. Between the wind, more torque than a gun in my hands will ever see, subpar pellets, and the minimal poi difference of 3/8 of an inch at 55 yards, l further did away with any of those concerns.
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Franklink, thanks for the honesty in your reviews “very refreshing”. I also want to commend you in honest group sizes and not using the ridiculous shoot and see targets! That have no business using for actual group testing!
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Nomojo65,
It could have been worse than using "Shoot and See" targets. He could have said "It's a tack driver/laser/etc. etc. etc. etc. etc" or some other word that doesn't describe accuracy.
Franklink,
Thanks so much for the time it takes to do a proper report. As a Test Engineer/Technician, I can appreciate the amount of time it takes to drill down through and area and see what is going on and what it's take to make it better.
Smitty
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Funny you ask.....Michael just posted this video from EBR. Man it's uncomfortable to watch and hear oneself on video.
Me and my "personal long range HP gun."
Cole and his Taipan Veteran Long
Cole is such a nice guy, and so enthusiastic about airguns!
www.airgunnation.com Longer version here: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/veteran-long-re-barrel-x2.847527/
Short version is that it's a Vet Long with an unchoked, traditional 12 land and groove, LW barrel, in .22. It pushes the 25.4gr Monster RDs at 890-900ish for about 43-44fpe if I remember right. It's a bit underpowered, relative to what many in the Xtreme Field Target game are shooting, although it was good for 3rd place in the .22 class of extreme ft at EBR last month. Between both classes there were about 80 shooters, and I think 5 or 6 had higher scores than my Vet Long.
And what place does all that info have in relation to this ongoing review of the Ghost? Well, the Vet Long and the Ghost are competing against each other to see which one gives me a better chance of winning long range/high power field target matches.
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I have had it with being a Beta tester for new models. Its got to have been out for a year or a version 2 or 3 from now on.
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I completely agree. And that's where the BRK Ghost is a very unorthodox product launch. Typically when a "new" gun comes out on the market, especially a brand's flagship (like the Ghost is for BRK), we're dealing with an entirely new product. And yes, there are usually growing pains with those entirely new products. Those growing pains are what has created the mindset you shared, of not wanting to be a beta tester. In the Ghost's case, the (nearly) same frame/chassis, as well as the valve, have been out on the market for over 2 years already. (I think the Delta Wolf was released in the spring of 2020.)
The BRK Ghost is the same gun as the Delta and Alpha Wolf, sans the electronics. I've seen many people comment, both about the Red and Delta Wolfs, that the electronics are a non-starter for them. I'm not anti-electronics in an airgun, but I can see both sides of the argument. Since before I had the Ghost sent to me I've been wanting to do a report on how the Ghost is a mechanical Delta Wolf. It has been a little tickle in the back of my head for about six months now, and will eventually be a write-up here on the ongoing review.
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Thanks I am a long range PB guy so my interest is to find one gun that I can play with in air at the distances I want 100-200 yards. And I mean play - ringing steel and chasing cans on strings in trees.Funny you ask.....Michael just posted this video from EBR. Man it's uncomfortable to watch and hear oneself on video.
Me and my "personal long range HP gun."
Cole and his Taipan Veteran Long
Cole is such a nice guy, and so enthusiastic about airguns!
Longer version here: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/veteran-long-re-barrel-x2.847527/
Short version is that it's a Vet Long with an unchoked, traditional 12 land and groove, LW barrel, in .22. It pushes the 25.4gr Monster RDs at 890-900ish for about 43-44fpe if I remember right. It's a bit underpowered, relative to what many in the Xtreme Field Target game are shooting, although it was good for 3rd place in the .22 class of extreme ft at EBR last month. Between both classes there were about 80 shooters, and I think 5 or 6 had higher scores than my Vet Long.
And what place does all that info have in relation to this ongoing review of the Ghost? Well, the Vet Long and the Ghost are competing against each other to see which one gives me a better chance of winning long range/high power field target matches.
I'm following intently to see how you do, I really do appreciate the depth of your efforts.
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