Brand Loyalty?

[2manyAirGunz]

I read this site daily. Several times daily, actually. Reading and interacting with the members here usually provides stress-free and productive activity for this retiree. A much needed reprieve from my once daily posts to my local newspaper comment section. Discussions involving politics etc. can become heated and stress-inducing. I can live without added stress. But I digress.

I endeavor to be fair and unbiased when discussing my experiences in my newfound hobby/pass-time. I know, I don't always meet that lofty goal. As such, I try not begrudge that flaw in others.

However, there is something I feel I must get off my chest. I.e. what I view as unwarranted complaints regarding what is now my favorite airgun manufacturer -- FX.

Of the 12 air rifles that I currently own, 6 are FX -- the FX Impact (more than one), the FX Wildcat, the FX Royale 500 and the FX Boss. These are, in my opinion, all-around excellent guns. In terms accuracy, ergonomics, appearance and reliability these FX models top the list of the guns I own. This includes the Benjamin (NP Trail), Daystate x3, AGT Vulcan x2, AA S510 and the Ataman m2r (recently sold).

I have not had any major issues with any of my FX rifles. Any minor issues that I have encountered with the rifles usually stem from my own negligence. And with the FX center in North Carolina, I have received prompt, professional and courteous service whenever service was needed. This includes free shipping costs, a departure from what I was accustomed to prior to the advent of the FX distribution center.

If there is one legitimate complaint that I would make about FX products/marketing, that would be the constant addition of costly upgrades that could easily be added to the existing rifles before they reach the market.

To summarize: In the interest of honesty and fairness, I only make comments regarding products and services that I have actually used. Keeping in mind that no product or service is perfect.

My $0.02

 

[JamesD.]

I appreciate your POV & fully agree w/ your 1st 2 paragraphs. 

All I know about FX is I felt one and they are so light it felt like a toy. The other thing I've heard from what most would call a top sought after tune mod man is nothing comes through his shop more often than FX pieces be it requested mods or simple to medium problems. In general, this Man is a fan of their innovative technology, valves, efficiency, barrels (testing is being done on all their barrels by him & I have not heard final verdict) etc.

The only other thing I know is FX falls into the too expensive for me realm as a commoner. Actually, I have no income at all & I'm a full time reverse roll house husband in care of all that goes with it. I enjoy these sites but I'm here early mornings & working & caring the rest of the day, with no pay, at all. Of any kind. 

So, all I can sum up is in a time when I had an extra 25K to blow, I bought tried, sold around 50 air guns. I can say I wish I'd kept 1/2 & never wasted $ on the other 1/2. What was top of the line 8 years ago is now actually extinct. My customer loyalty would have transferred to their new name if another company that is bringing unwanted attention trying to mass produce cannons and draw in PB guys who don't appreciate the pin point accuracy of a .177 at 8-12ftlbs hadn't now bought this newly named but old company up. I REALLY was looking forward to getting 1 or 2 of them but as I'm about to explain, & for the main reason I just did, I'm not going to. 

Out of over 50 guns, some at a starting price point over 2K, I found The Evanix Rainstorm to be EVERY bit as accurate, way lighter, not bad on quality, fit, finish. No where near as well built, easy to operate on, admitted. Price point? Add a regulator to any caliber from .177 to .30 & enjoy one of the best rifles you can absolutely buy for under $1000.00 if you install it yourself. Having it professionally set up, tuned, is going to run around $1500 including shipping, Huma reg, all mods, testing. I didn't include a scope in that last price but being a PCP that hits whatever it's pointed at like a laser, any old scope will do if you're in a pinch or a utilitarian like myself.

I have several favorites. I love crosman for all they've done by introducing me to PCP w/ the Discovery & Mrod. Honestly I have no "loyalty," only perception & judgement on said perceptions/observations. I'm loyal to my spring gun tuner JIPA as he never lets me down and is a very kind hearted good man. The rifle, is just a rifle. I'm here to learn & see what's new. I can appreciate the electrical boards 5x faster lock & dwell time. That can diminish the size of groups drastically if form is solid in the first place as we all move somewhat unless cheating with a mechanical rest or what have you. OK, it's not cheating in their realm of the sport. I just don't see anyone ever carrying one in the woods and I never will. I hardly ever go there myself nowadays but in about 8-10 years if a certain little guy, or sooner if girl, decide they wish to hunt, I'll have to get my old knees up off my "bench" and go hunting after taking the test for the 4th & 5th time in my life. Fell asleep in last one and still got 100%

I don't see any reason to be, or not to be loyal in a company. If it works for you, great. I do see, as I was saying, good things in different makers and since I can't take all I like & make a Frankengun that retains all I liked (as mechanical things usually work best with the parts that were designed for them) I'll just have to settle for what I have. Isn't that the entire secret to happiness? Appreciating what you have, not wanting what you don't have? I believe it is the key, although it's not an eraser of things that bring you sadness. Moving on & trying to stay in the moment. Good OP though & I do respect you more even though I don't know ya, for those 1st 2 paragraphs. 

 

[Elbowgrease]

Im not personally biased towards one brand but when it comes to FX. That price cannot justify the fact that issues are far to common. I get it, it happens with all brands but the level that it happens to FX seems a far to common issue. I would be more then happy to spend that kind of cash one. In fact I would like an impact and wildcat but with all of the issues I read about thats just not going to happen. Regulator issues, parts just falling off, and loose screws just to name a few common issues I read about all the time. I should not have to modify or upgrade anything on something in that price range in order to have something reliable. Again though. I have had my eyes on a wildcat mkII for sometime. There are just more reliable options out there. Much more reliable. 

 

[sonny]

I own a CROSMAN1377, RWS48, HW95, FX BOBCAT, FX IMPACT and love them all. All have been and still are great guns and perform as well as the manufacture describes them. The Impact is the most complex gun I own. I have been adjusting ("tuning") it myself and its been a tedious process but with great results and satisfaction. I dont know who makes the so called "best" airgun but I do know im happy with the ones I own. I would buy with confidence from any of the manufacture's I currently have.

 

[Keyman62421]

I love my FX's. However, i an not agree concerning reliability! Everything else, yes.

 

[Saltlake58]

I own 3 Crosmans and 1 FX. Titan (Springer) 1701P Pistol, Marauder in .22 and an Impact in 25. Other than my own stupidity demolishing an O-Ring in the Impact, it's been flawless. Am I loyal? Well, everyone wants validation that their decision to spend $2000 on a gun was a good decision, so in that aspect, yes, I'd be loyal to FX. As for comparing to the Marauder, it's a completely different class of gun, and the comparisons really aren't fair. Though, both guns shoot at 75 yards with excellent accuracy when tuned properly.

I've done repairs on both guns, and find both very friendly. The FX Master Class was an incredible asset and another reason for some loyalty, they taught me how to repair the gun. The Marauder has a large community, but Crosman hasn't done anything like the Master Class. Nice touch for FX.

Would I defect to Daystate? Perhaps if I had a spare $3000 and time to shoot more, I'd give a Red Wolf a try. The Bantam Sniper isn't to be criticized either at $1400, just never know. While I find FX to be incredible guns, there are other makers out there with incredible guns, and the other makers are catching up in the accuracy department. Honestly, the technical advancements of the Smooth Twist barrel for FX blew everyone away, but the others are catching up and perhaps getting ready to surpass FX on accuracy. Isn't competition great! Nasty old capitalists, just making things better and keeping prices in line too (well, that last one is a bit of a stretch for a $3000 gun)

When I buy my next gun, FX will have a definite head start, but FX will must continue to prove itself accurate and reliable.

By the way, where's the Dreamline? I thought that was supposed to be delivering by now! I could sure have fun configuring my dream gun.

Have fun out there, it's a fantastic air gunning world.

 

[PerkyVal]

I've had many lesser airguns on my powderless journey, and have spent, or rather misspent way too much money trying to make those guns what I had imagined the higher end airguns would be. I even convinced myself that I had.

I had never been more wrong in my life about anything.

My FX Crown is now the best airgun I own, but not my favorite. The Impact is, but it's also the most frustrating as far as tuning it compared to the Crown.

I have not had any issues that weren't self inflicted, which brings me to my point.

FX is arguably the most innovative airgun manufacturer out there. But as with any product on the bleeding edge there's going to be things people hate, as well as issues with design, and production. 

FX guns work well for me, they're light, accurate, adjustable, and worth every penny.

Having said that, I'm hoping to buy a Redwolf. I know it will be too heavy, and I'm not totally convinced that electronics belong in a gun, but it's also innovative and that intrigues me.

 

[edgunleshiy]

FX has paid shooters who won’t admit they are paid shooters... pushing guns and saying they don’t break. They break, and people get pissed, and then vent. That’s what you’re seeing, and that’s the root of the issue. It’s not a knock on your gun... sounds like you’ve had good luck and you love it... that’s what matters.

FX... Good guns, super smart guy leading the company, but a marketing strategy that was rooted in something they ultimately cannot control... human ego.

 

[pmg]

I don’t know that I’m that much into the brand loyalty thing as I’ve only got two airguns. I’ve had great luck with an air arms 410 for quite a few years no issues what so ever. Then I wanted a regulated gun for some reason and I went elsewhere. Kept reading about the taipans and I had never heard of them before even thought they were from Taiwan. Hey I was out of the loop! Well I think now that if I was to see a .177 long or 25 long I guess I’d have to say I have some brand loyalty because I’d buy either or both. There’s a lot of choices out there these days but I felt for $1295 I was going to get a solid, dependable rifle without adding anything but a scope. As for other brands, I could be swayed by some of that killer wood Daystate puts on some of their rifles.

 

[Leon83]

I owned T12 and Impact from FX. Great guns, Impact specially. In T12 I could not set it below 12fpe. It appeared that barrels transfer port was a bit too large. I had to turn the barrel by hair to close transfer port in order to keep it below our energy limit. 

I have found little screw inside rifles case when I bought my Impact. I checked Impacts parts list and it appeared that the screw should be screwed in a hammer somewhere. I wrote to FX about it but they replied that I should just observe and write in case velocity changes. So I’ve put around 4000 - 5000 pellets through Impact with no issues. Sold it and after a while new owner emailed me that he had big issues with the rifle because of this little screw I found - it should be screwed to the hammer with loctite but apparently it fell off. My shooting with 12fpe did nothing to the hammer but new owner tuned it to higher energy and issues started. 

Both situations would not happen if quality check be better. These were silly things, easy to fix. 

Still I think FX makes great air guns yet complicated which makes it harder to produce. I also think that high repair percentage is in majority caused by users who do not read manuals... 

As to Swedish approach to marketing... it is just too much and too obvious. In Mats video posted few days ago, in comment section I’ve found viewers question posted directly to FX Airguns, FX Airguns replied there.... I think it is unhealthy... What should viewers think about respected youtubers and their credibility. Ted’s HoldOver speaks FXs language for some time now, Mats balances on the edge, Giles walks in previous two footsteps... Steve, still holding on ...to FX pump on his last video... coincidence? Hope so. Thank Lord Joe is around...

Just wanted to add that in airguns I search for rare combination of accuracy, quality and simplicity which I found in Leshiy. But what is going to be next? Time will tell. 

 

[Imold]

I have no brand loyalty to any airgun, I buy what I believe will work for my style of shooting which is steel and hunting, my Wildcat Patriot.25 has been a nice airgun for me and when I pull the trigger it sends a pellet down range and is accurate out to 100 yards, I can say the same thing for my 2 RAWs my 2 Texans the two Hatsans and my 22 Marauder which I only shoot out to 50 yards, I see no real reason to to be brand loyal person when there are so many nice airguns out there that don’t get enough recognition and what I also see with some brand loyal folks or fan boys is they will speak a lot on Hearsay about airguns they have never shot or let alone touched, not all but there are those out there.

One thing nice about the airgun community is that there are a lot of folks that will give you honest opinions on guns they have owned if you ask enough questions, that’s how I’ve made decisions on some of the airguns I own and the same goes with scopes. Brand loyalty to me goes to someone who is being payed to shoot one brand of airgun only.

 

[starlingassn]

ive never been brand loyal, 

ill buy whatever gun appeals to me.



but i have found a few brands that have come to be my favorite over the years.



never had any problems with any of my airforce guns. 

and after getting my gamo urban recently and seeing the quality of bsa barrels and actions,

i will be a bsa customer in the very near future.



but would still buy any makers gun that piques my interest 

 

[WaltherV]

Just stating some observations here based on UK airgun reviews on guns and gear, and noticed that they all have glowing reviews as though they are trying to sell you whatever they review whether from magazine publications or video reviews. If they are not all paid from sponsors then they really must indeed genuinely like everything they review with such positive enthusiasm.

Throwing Cyclops Joe into their mix would make it a major Markle debacle.

Not loyal to any one manufacturer, just the accurate and fun to shoot guns and gear that works for me.

I prefer trouble free and drama free guns and tend to do my homework before buying.

I do own FX guns but wouldn't say that I am a loyal FX guy, I would love to have an Impact or

a Crown but don't want to be one of the tiny few minorities who were unlucky buying a new one

who fortunately for me, voiced their frustrations publicly after spending $2000. I am not the tinkering

type of guy and don't want to have to send them off for warranty as few have had to do.

Maybe if I were a Billionaire as Bruno sings, I would probably buy 3 (or more) of each gun and caliber so

that I would always have one that is working to use while others are in the shop if I were one of the few

unlucky minorities.



My .02

Walt 

 

[AirNGasman]

Blind loyalty is as ignorant as blind prejudice. That said, brand loyalty built on a foundation of multiple good experiences with a product and product-support is as normal and NATURAL as prejudice built on a foundation of multiple bad experiences.

I readily admit to some brand loyalty and some prejudices; however both are built on personal experience(s), not blind speculation or conjecture. I also don't hesitate to offer opinions and advice based on vast experience; political-correctness be damned. For instance-

The only FX airguns I've ever owned are about a half-dozen .22 Tarantulas, now long 'obsolete'. So I don't opine about any other FX. That said, the Tarantulas were all among the top 10 most accurate airguns I've owned and tested in over 30 years of testing over 400 airguns of all kinds, as documented in my book, Airgun Chronicles- Thirty Years Of Airgun Testing And Competition (copyright 2013). As excerpted from that book-

"My first Tarantula, it proved the most accurate air rifle in all this testing. 28 five-shot groups at 50 yards with Exacts averaged .50” c-t-c. The best test sessions produced .43” & .44” averages. I consider the Tarantula one of the most beautiful and accurate sporting air rifles ever produced."

 

[addertooth]

The perspective of a tinkerer, they guy who disassembles and tunes what he has. All air rifles do the same thing, it is just that each manufacturer has a slightly different way of achieving the same thing. If you have had one Benjamin/Crosman springer apart, you pretty much know the drill on all of them. The same is mostly true for their PCP air rifles as well (Okay, the Bulldog has some differences). Once you have the quirks figured out, they seem comfortable and predictable. (Much like working on a Ford, as versus a Chevy). I tend to stick with air rifles which are comfortable for me to tinker with. Some air rifles are far more complex to work with, they are like a bloody 3d metal puzzle with razor edges. Not my idea of a fun afternoon tinkering.

Basic familiarity is probably the driving factor for my "loyalty" to a given brand. They other key part is the tendency to modify anything I buy. Some are more friendly in that area than other brands.

 

[RM100GUY]

Buying an FX Wildcat Mk1 .25 with only review videos and owner reviews to go on has turned out to be a very enjoyable and rewarding experience for me, the .25 WC led me to a 25 Bobcat, which led to a .22 Wildcat, all with in six months or so, I couldn't be happier with the two .25's, but concerning the .22 WC, I can't imagine a more fun and enjoyable air rifle to own and shoot, light short powerful and accurate, it makes me smile every time I shoot it! Yes I do like FX because they work for me, I'm sure their are other great guns, but I must say I'm satisfied with FX, and I'm considering another one Crown, or Streamline. I shoot my FX's a lot, more days than not, so far besides re-loctiting the cocking lever pin in WC's, (I was expecting this) I haven't had any issues with any of my FX's. My heart go's out to those how have issues right off the bat with something that's supposed to give enjoyment and fun, yes I've been there too with another manufacture, just considered it a part of the hobby, stayed calm and it work out. I have nothing against other brands but sorry Chevy is my car and FX is my air gun.

 

[intenseaty22]

This is a very interesting topic for sure. Brand Loyalty. I too spend a lot of time on AGN reading, posting, commenting, and more importantly Learning. I don't think of myself as very smart, nor I'm I a marksman, or an expert in all things airguns, but, I do have a way of logging information that I read. It sort of all stacks up in there like a little data collecting bank. 

My first ever PCP was a Brocock Compatto from AoA. The first thing I learned was that I had no idea how to trouble shoot these things, I was having trouble with the gun (turned out to be the SCBA valve) But, AoA insisted it was the gun and wanted me to send it back. It is expensive to play this game. I purchased a Huntsman as well from them, gorgeous gun, but sold it due to: I wanted other things and needed the money, and was afraid of having to send the gun back at some point for repairs. 

I ended up buying a Cricket from GA. The gun is very high end and meets all my needs. I can be at the shop in person in as little as 1Hr 20min. So, you could practically say I am not Brand Loyal, but rather Dealer Loyal. Perhaps when the day comes that I learn how to tear down a PCP and do all the work myself, I may be a little more flexible with brands. I will say though, the Cricket runs full circles around that Compatto. 

As for my "Data Bank" I have never owned an FX, did shoot one once, had been tuned perfectly by Chuck. However, of all the brand names, the one I read the most complaints about seems to be the FX. Perhaps that is just a number games, they may be so popular that the odds are against them if you will on cheer numbers. More guns, more chances of some with issues? Owners seem to be very passionate about them and will come out swinging the minute anyone says something against them (the brand), there seems to be a question of if or if not high profile reviewers are in bed with them. ETC. 

I think at the end of the day one thing is for sure. When you are paying over $1K for a gun and most certainly when you are paying close to or over $2K, certain expectations are made. How can we loose sight and respect for the hard work, sweat, and sacrifice that a customer made just to earn that kind of money to purchase a certain brand. A gun in this caliber should come to the customer pretty damn flawless. Forking over another hundred to send it for repairs shortly after receiving the gun is unacceptable. Nor is the expectation that said gun needs a pro tune, or a better high end Reg because that OEM one sucks. Etc. 

Just food for thought. (Rant)