Borescope view of HW 80.....200 shot update.

[seven08]

I hit the two tin 1000 shots fired mark late yesterday with my new 80. The spring buzz still remains mostly quiet. FAR less noisy than when new.

There is plenty of lead streaking in the first inches of the bore and some in the choke areas. The photos are approximately 30X magnified and one would think this is a serious leading condition. The rifle still shoots pellets very tightly, but I will get this bore cleaned up as when new. The leading will only get worse if left in there. Got a Teslong borescope, yet?

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

That is amazing ! Is that the unit that costs about $80 ? Like to see some post bore brush shots.

 

[MikeVV]

Bore brushes aren't gonna help that.

That's just bad machine work. Looks like either improper lube was used or the barrel was not tight in the machine. And or possibly a dull tool.

Those chatter marks aren't a good thing, and I have no idea how to get rid of them without damaging the bore further, (oversize diameter).



Mike

 

[marflow]

on cleaning airguns, if it ain't broke don't fix it 

or clean it and then season the barrel with a dozen pellets or so and then take a another look

 

[seven08]

Now you guys really did not think I would let this go uncleaned.....did you? MikeVV, you are way off with your assessment of this barrel. Three pulls through with a solvent damp Hoppes .22 bore snake with a follow up bore patch damp with Hoppes #9 solvent. Then two dry patches wrapped around a Parker- Hale style jag on a nylon .22 Dewey rod.. All traces of lead and contamination are gone revealing a beautiful rifled bore. Just a few traces of lint strands remain. The very minor tool marks in the breech could not even be seen with the naked eye, let alone felt. This is a finely crafted airgun barrel.

The first set of photos was with the Teslong rigid 21" borescope. This set was taken with the Teslong 40" flexible bore scope....I have both. $50. for the 40" flexible and $70. for the 21" rigid on Amazon. I sold my expensive Hawkeye bore scope five years ago. These are just as good picture clarity and can be shared via internet.



The first photo shows the machined grooves on the face of the Vortek seal looking through the transfer port. Barrel was in a closed position with scope inserted into the muzzle. (rotation of picture not correct)

This is the TP and breech face with the barrel closed. No more lead streaks.

The rest just show a squeaky clean masterpiece of machined steel.

Breech chamfer

Muzzle chamfer

 

[seven08]

Now a question for the experts. What is the compressed air temperature when it hits the seated pellet? No doubt it initiates lead vaporization which in turn gets deposited to the steel surfaces, especially that brown ring around the TP.

Do PCP guns generate the same air temps as springers?



The first five shots after cleaning. Windy...standing offhand....15yds. First was the lowest left one, then aiming for that low hit mark.

Seasoned and ready to go.

 

[JimNM]

PCP does not radically increase the temperature in the gun. Heat is created when the air is compressed (boyles law) and the compression is done when the bottle is loaded from the pump or the tank. The temperature will DROP as the pressure is released. 3000 psi in the gun, the valve opens and the temp behind the pellet will increase slightly as the pressure goes from ambient to 3000 psi - then as the shot cycle gas pushes the pellet the volume increases and temps drop. The expansion and energy drop (temp drop) is far greater than the compression behind the pellet. The only air temperature increase is the little bit between the valve and the pellet - while the volume of the air released by the valve is much greater and the resulting delta temp negative is greater than the delta temp positive. 

 

[likkitysplyt]

I've heard it said that the reason most people don't use a bore scope is because they would not shoot the gun anymore if they saw the insides of the bore … but I find them fascinating. Not only can you tell the condition of the barrel, the oring, the crown, whether you have leading, but you can tell if you have rust in your air tube also. Yes, I use a Teslong also and it gives single pics or movies. My 70 year old eyes are not as sharp as they once were and they can use all the help they can get. I was replacing a breech oring last month and wasn't quite sure if I had the oring positioned just right in the groove so I put the bore scope in the barrel and I was right, it was in the groove except for a very small portion so I played around with it until it was perfect. Last week I was replacing the fill adapter on an old Marauder that hadn't been shot in at least a year. When I used the Marauder all the time I only had a hand pump without a dissicant kit on the Benjamin pump to help remove some of the water … but it had not been used in quite some time. The inside of the air tube had a lot of rust in there. I broke it down and replaced the air tube out of an overabundance of caution. 

I think I paid $50 for the Teslong and it was indeed money well spent … the pics and the movies are extremely clear and easy to set-up. It's a plug and play device on any Windows 10 computer. Just plug it into any USB port and switch on your computer camera.

 

[marflow]

so after cleaning did it shoot any better after clean and if not not it need to be cleaned 

here is a test for you because you have the bore scope, how long does it take to make the barrel look like it did before cleaning 

i mean in the old days of my pistol shooting days i used a Lewis lead remover, did it help, hell i was shooting 45 acp, who knows 

so how long does it take to relead the barrel 

 

[seven08]

Five quickie off hand shots in the wind after cleaning tells me all will be good. Adhered lead attracts more lead as the pellet passes over it. Same as when I shot soft lead .38's too fast FPS. No doubt in my opinion the accuracy would deteriorate over time if left to increase.

That was one week and 1000 shots worth of bore fouling. No cleaning during that time.

I had the Lewis tool when I was into handguns and cast bullets.

My D34's start leaving lead streaks within 100 shots. I use the above cleaning method every 1500 or so shots. I do see improved accuracy after cleaning....shots going to call with out questionable misses. I will bore scope for a look at 200-300 shots and report back with a picture.

 

[likkitysplyt]

I only clean mine once accuracy starts to fall off. After cleaning I'll run the bore scope through it and see if there is any smeared lead in there. If there is I'll clean it some more or leave Ballistol in the bore overnight to try and loosen it up more and then run some patchworm felt buttons and some coarse rough 7/8" patches through it. Generally I keep the velocity down to 910 fps or less so there isn't usually too much leading.

Each gun I have will have will get lead buildup at different intervals. The CZ barrels seem to need less cleaning and the LW barrels require more for the best accuracy. My Cricket can easily go a thousand rounds between cleaning, but my Matador will be lucky to get 400 rounds between cleaning.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I've read that the air temperature behind the pellet of a magnum springer can hit 500 deg for milliseconds. That explains the increase in my Sigs receiver tube after a 10 shot session. Usually, after cleaning the barrel it takes 20-30 shots for the accuracy to return. If those were your first 5 shots after cleaning the bore just wait until you hit 30-40 shots ! You should see better results ! Great before and after pictures !

 

[Guest]

I've read that the air temperature behind the pellet of a magnum springer can hit 500 deg for milliseconds.

It has to get hotter than that because it can cause pretty much any solvent, oil, or greases to diesel. ??

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

That's what I thought as well ! I just read that somewhere. I did do a Google on autoignition of both diesel fuel and gasoline. These are not the same as flashpoints ignition.

Autoignition of gasoline is 536 deg

Autoignition of diesel fuel is 410 deg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature

 

[Arzrover]

Beeman wrote of testing the peak temp in an R1 at 1800 deg. He was prone to exaggerating and misinformation at one time so don't know if I would trust that but an interesting thought anyway.

Bob

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I wonder if he meant 1800 psi ?

 

[ChuckHunter]

I read something along the same lines years ago about the temp hitting close to 2000 degrees for a millisecond in a magnum springer ! Just before the pellet starts to move...also read that a small ignition or diesel is part of the consistency of a spring piston airgun! That's why I'm not convinced about these guys using krytox synthetic lubes in their guns because it negates that factor. Honestly don't really know but I still use good old moly and so do the top tuners!

James from Michigan 

 

[seven08]

There is still leading going on even with so few shots fired. Some in the choke area, but the first three inches of pellet travel have the worst deposits. A couple of light spots mid bore. The accuracy remains outstanding. I will make 1000 to 1200 shots fired my bore cleaning interval. Bear in mind this is 30X plus magnification and not a serious lead buildup issue.