Big Game Hunting with Airguns in California (Podcast)

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What I find interesting, is no one talks about energy. The minimum used number for whitetail deer is 1000 FPE, 1500 FPE for elk. Most Airguns will not come close to these numbers. That is not muzzle velocity, but at the animal. Don’t get me wrong, I know animals can be killed at lower fpe, but those are long established numbers. 10 years ago or so, I was talking to an Airgunner at the local range. He had just killed a Buffalo with an air rifle. Talking to him and watching his video, he shot it in the heart. It took 45 minutes to fall over. To me, that is not responsible hunting.
At any rate, something to think about.
 
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Big bore is here to stay. Not using them won't help save anyone from anything. No legitimate reason they should not enjoy many of the same rights that black powder does. Believe it or not ,the more places that pass laws allowing hunting with air the better off all of us will be. Even those hiding and only shooting in their back yard. Lead was banned from duck hunting nation wide long ago. It did cause a lot of head aches but ways around it were eventually worked out. Air gunners in California will do the same.
 
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archerhmr said:
What I find interesting, is no one talks about energy. The minimum used number for whitetail deer is 1000 FPE, 1500 FPE for elk. Most Airguns will not come close to these numbers. That is not muzzle velocity, but at the animal. Don’t get me wrong, I know animals can be killed at lower fpe, but those are long established numbers. 10 years ago or so, I was talking to an Airgunner at the local range. He had just killed a Buffalo with an air rifle. Talking to him and watching his video, he shot it in the heart. It took 45 minutes to fall over. To me, that is not responsible hunting.
At any rate, something to think about.
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That’s ridiculous. A buffalo and a whitetail or blacktail deer are not similar. We have killed several deer and they haven’t run more that 50 yards and dropped. Big bore Airgun hunting is very similar to archery. Does your bow have 1000 fpe? Should we can hunting with bows now? Both archery and big bore airguns take an animal through blood loss. Let’s not foul the argument with faulty comparisons. Do they allow buffalo hunting in CA?

With that said, I don’t live in CA, but I’m for people being able to hunt in their state with airguns. Being afraid to speak up is why you’re dealing with such bad regulations in your state already. At least that’s my opinion.
 
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AncientSword said:
That’s ridiculous. A buffalo and a whitetail or blacktail deer are not similar. We have killed several deer and they haven’t run more that 50 yards and dropped. Big bore Airgun hunting is very similar to archery. Does your bow have 1000 fpe? Should we can hunting with bows now? Both archery and big bore airguns take an animal through blood loss. Let’s not foul the argument with faulty comparisons. Do they allow buffalo hunting in CA?

With that said, I don’t live in CA, but I’m for people being able to hunt in their state with airguns. Being afraid to speak up is why you’re dealing with such bad regulations in your state already. At least that’s my opinion.
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Correct, the big FPE is mainly to sell more guns and most of all because the vast majority of hunters are really not that proficient so they are trying to compensate with overwelming power to offset the lack or everything else.
 
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I agree that in California, it's an issue best left alone as is. The battle with the Antis is just not worth it, and it will come in full force backed by wealthy animal rights activists from the Bay and Sierra Club support. Currently, we can hunt coyotes, turkeys, quail, squirrels, etc. There's plenty of hunting opportunity (24/7 365 for coyotes) currently for airguns, and bringing the attention to guns making 700+fpe is at best going to result in years of litigation with limited rights whilst it's sorted out in unfavorable courts. We would absolutely loose the ability to use lead projectiles, which would be crippling for most calibers. In addition, the hunting isn't that great in most of the state to begin with, so the end goal isn't really that rich. I'd rather take a trip to another state where the hunting is better and airguns can already be used and not bring attention to our ability to say hunt turkey with lead projectiles of .177 or larger, which is actually pretty good hunting here, as there's quite a few turkeys in this state. If airguns become classified as firearms in California, as they are in states like New Jersey, we would loose a lot of our current freedoms, including moderators, avoiding FFLs, etc. It's a terrible concession to make on one hand, and on the other, I am not willing to risks the current classifications and exemptions airguns have in my county and part of the state for the ability to hope that the forests are actually open during deer season to chase the limited big game opportunities this state still offers.
 
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We have PLENTY of right here as airgunners here in CA! We can even hunt with lead ammo while no firearms are allowed to hunt with lead regardless of caliber. We still get our toys shipped to our doors including moderators, we can shoot any where we want outside of cities.

The argument of putting food on the table is a farce, people hunt enjoy hunting. It’s a hobby and enjoyment, we here in CA are not starving to death last time I checked. At 7 dollar a gallon gas driving out to hunt will cost more than any deer meat you might harvest. Do people even know how big California is?

Bullet availability is a another farce, I can find many hunting bullets in stock, might not be the caliber of choice at times but can be found with a few phone calls. a GOOD hunting rifle like a Tikka T3 can easily be found at 500 dollars, they are on sale a lot of times! And how many bullets do you need to harvest a deer??? A box of 20 rounds should last years plus most of my friend reload I don’t even buy store bullets. So we bitch about 500 dollar gun shooting 3-6 dollar worth ammo??? Last time I check airguns aren’t that cheap! My precision LR/hunting chassis is cheaper than my impact or crowns, my higher end 308 with 1/2 MOA barrel was 800 dollar from my buddy. That thing will hold 3 inch group at 500 yards and will drop ANYTHING we are allowed to hunt out to 500 yards with utter confidence. Oh when out hunting deer or ram who cares about noise, at well over 1000 FPE there is no need for a follow up shot.

All my hunting friends all have zero issues with bullets and laugh at the cost of my toys thinking I’m off my rockers. They all drive to Nevada/New Mexico because it’s closer than trying to get to parts of California that has descent hunting. It takes me 3 hours to get to Nevada hunting areas where it would take me 6 hours to some of my spots in CA and those are the closer ones. I have solid copper hunting ammo for years of hunting(whopping 80 rounds) but I haven’t even fired one round in 2 years. When I did go hunting shots are out to 500 yards with 308, hunting in the stand like east coast isn’t hunting.


Even big bore Airguns are only good for getting rid of pest deers on your own property without offending your neighbor.


Sorry, if you don’t live here in CA and don’t ACTUALLY hunt here in CA then please don’t chime in. We aren’t living in fear, we live in reality!
 
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I’m with Qball on this along with the other CA folks. It’s not about living in fear. It’s about we don’t want it(big game hunting with air rifles)
Do you none CA residents have any idea how big our bucks get here? It’s downright embarrassing. There’s a reason most CA hunters put in for a draw in another state, or travel to utah, Colorado, or Wyoming.
Understand this- WE ARE CONTENT THE WAY IT IS as far as airguns and what we can and can’t do with them. Not about living in fear, how dumb of a comment. 2nd grade brains. The more I read this thread it appears to me the folks that have been crushed with laws on airguns just want the same for us. That’s what it seems to me, knowing my state, the tiny deer we have, and what I have seen happen over the years that makes me totally disinterested in hunting deer period.

You non CA folks truly have no idea. It’s not just the lead laws, the straws and plastic bags taken away, diesel, the fuel that has the less amount of processing and we are being charged the highest for it, smogging of diesels, building code after building code and energy calculations required, taxes for stupid fees, higher than normal building permit fees, it goes on and on and on. We are burnt out. So the few things we enjoy we want to keep them in place.


Back to the deer size- can you say bucks the size of a German Shepherd? Now why would I be so excited about using a big bore on one of those?
 
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Here’s an example, just one, of some of the BS we have to deal with here-
I have a 100’ set back to an irrigation ditch that runs thru my property. That irrigation ditch is tapped into by many, for the sole purpose of watering their land. It’s not free, I pay $500 a year for a 1/2 miners infh, which is a half inch hole drilled thru a piece of plywood at the gate to keep my five acres watered. That ditch water is filthy, as it passes all thru Nevada county and whatever gets washed into it ends up spread all over. Dead cattle carcasses, turds, you name it.

But building code doesn’t allow me to build a structure within 100’ of it if I’m uphill of them creek. When I asked why, the answer I got is because rain water coming off my roof, into my gutter, down my downspout, needs 100’ for the water to get cleansed. That’s right, cleansed. On its way to the ditch it’s also washing over the piles left from my dogs. Stupid law that I have to abide by.

For those that forgot, research that whole spotted owl dillema, and find out how many folks lost their jobs and even ended up living in a ghost town because the mills shut down.

So, big bore hunting in CA? Righttttttt…..
 
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Include me in the "we" who is against this movement, as it will cost more than it will gain. Less than 1% of the population hunts in this state, one of the lowest percentages of hunters per capita in the nation. Sierra Pacific, one of the largest private land holders in the state use to allow hunting access, has already announced as of July 1 that no public access is allowed on its land due to fire danger. Closing National Forest Land is the latest tactic to prevent hunting in this state, and they've done it the last two hunting seasons. Expect it again before the bow opener in the D Zones. If you don't live in this state, you have no idea what it's really like. Fish and Game changed it's name to Fish and Wildlife because it's run by a bunch of vegans and vegetarians. I've been to the annual Warden/hunter Ed convention the last time it was at Squaw. Fish and Wildlife is not pro-hunting and not pro-expansion of hunting tools. And I don't really care about other countries and their perspectives on our rights. More will be lost than gained in the pursuit of airguns and big game, and if you think they won't require non-lead you're delusion and ill-informed. I have a few boxes of Lehigh Defense .457, which have not and will not be regularly available and when they are, they're well over $2 a shot. They don't work near as well as a Nielsen 350 grain. We currently have great airgun hunting opportunities in CA. Look how poorly big game is managed in this state and why-cats and bears are crushing the fawn and deer population because of public outcry. I have spoken with Fish and Wildlife biologists who do not hesitate to state both populations are way beyond carrying capacity. Fish and Wildlife does not listen to science and wildlife biologists, they are beholden to public opinion. There was actually a study that has all but disappeared from the internet from sometime around 2011-2013 that showed that the lead ban had no effect on the condors, but that didn't matter. Science doesn't matter in CA unless it's "science" that supports the progressive agenda. So, for those who'd like to destroy our coyote, turkey, quail, squirrel, and other small game air gun hunting because you dream of hunting a dog size deer in a forest you will have no access to, just make sure we know who you are so we can place blame appropriately. I've used non-lead projectiles in .22 and .25 and they suck. I don't want to be using them for small game hunting. Ever.
 
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mtndragon said:
Include me in the "we" who is against this movement, as it will cost more than it will gain. Less than 1% of the population hunts in this state, one of the lowest percentages of hunters per capita in the nation. Sierra Pacific, one of the largest private land holders in the state use to allow hunting access, has already announced as of July 1 that no public access is allowed on its land due to fire danger. Closing National Forest Land is the latest tactic to prevent hunting in this state, and they've done it the last two hunting seasons. Expect it again before the bow opener in the D Zones. If you don't live in this state, you have no idea what it's really like. Fish and Game changed it's name to Fish and Wildlife because it's run by a bunch of vegans and vegetarians. I've been to the annual Warden/hunter Ed convention the last time it was at Squaw. Fish and Wildlife is not pro-hunting and not pro-expansion of hunting tools. And I don't really care about other countries and their perspectives on our rights. More will be lost than gained in the pursuit of airguns and big game, and if you think they won't require non-lead you're delusion and ill-informed. I have a few boxes of Lehigh Defense .457, which have not and will not be regularly available and when they are, they're well over $2 a shot. They don't work near as well as a Nielsen 350 grain. We currently have great airgun hunting opportunities in CA. Look how poorly big game is managed in this state and why-cats and bears are crushing the fawn and deer population because of public outcry. I have spoken with Fish and Wildlife biologists who do not hesitate to state both populations are way beyond carrying capacity. Fish and Wildlife does not listen to science and wildlife biologists, they are beholden to public opinion. There was actually a study that has all but disappeared from the internet from sometime around 2011-2013 that showed that the lead ban had no effect on the condors, but that didn't matter. Science doesn't matter in CA unless it's "science" that supports the progressive agenda. So, for those who'd like to destroy our coyote, turkey, quail, squirrel, and other small game air gun hunting because you dream of hunting a dog size deer in a forest you will have no access to, just make sure we know who you are so we can place blame appropriately. I've used non-lead projectiles in .22 and .25 and they suck. I don't want to be using them for small game hunting. Ever.
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Well written, well explained.
 
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One thing not discussed is that most, if not all, states allowing airguns for deer have real problems with whitetail over-population. I’m not aware of any whitetail herds in CA. Whitetail are typically a close range type of hunting. Perfectly suited for airguns. Mule deer are not whitetail. They are not usually taken at reasonable airgun ranges. They are very difficult to pattern unless you find water or natural food. Hunting over bait is not allowed in CA. Except for private land, it isn’t feasible to tree stand or blind hunt..so you could get into reasonable airgun range. It's not legal to leave stands overnight on public land and even if you did they won't be there on return. Spot-and-stalk with and airgun.? I guess it's possible..archers do it.
 
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