Other Big Decision .25 for EFT

Today was the DAY, perfect weather with 2-5 mph cross winds and a slight overcast.

The challenge - shoot my 3 different .25 EFT rigs, back to back to get a ten shot sample group from each at 80 yards from my indoor bench to my outdoor range.

The goal was to choose my primary EFT rig.

Guns used for this challenge included:

A brand spanking new Blackwolf 23” barrel
AOA level 2 tune, chassis stock, topped with a lightly used Sightron S6 10-60x60 SFP. A zero DB moderator was added.

Next up, A lightly used, Redwolf I acquired from AGN’s notorious @AirNGasman, which now sits in a PRS chassis. I topped it off with a Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 SFP. A Silent Thunder Ordnance Faux moderator was used.

Last but not least, was another AGN purchase, a HMX1000 RAW in a chassis. Although I am the third owner of this gem, it truly appeared almost new. I topped it off with an Athlon Heras SPR 6-24X56 FFP. A Silent Thunder Ordnance Sarissa moderator was used.

All guns were shooting the JSB 33.95 heavies and each gun was tuned to push these pellets at aprox 930 FPS, which is a very appropriate speed for these Diablo pellets.

Don’t cry foul, but, No attempt was made to pick the perfect pellet for a particular gun. Each gun was factory tuned or out of the box, and other than me specifying the pellet speed I wanted, no other mods were involved. I also didn’t weigh, wash or lube the pellets and all pellets came from the same tin.

My indoor bench has a single leg so it’s a bit jittery. I used clicks rather than holdovers for this reason, which minimizes my 69 year old eyeball mistakes.

The Blackwolf was the loudest of the three and the most air hungry; but the regulator was set at Daystates’ typical 170 bar and was the most likely reason for this but the STO Sarissa moderator does make it much qauieter. Oddly the RAW HMX was the quieter of the three and the most air efficient but it DID have the STO Sarissa on it. I have no idea what the HMX 1000 reg is set at.

The Blackwolf was the most expensive gun, followed by the Redwolf and then the RAW HMX - think $4 k BW, $3k RW, $2k HMX.

This picture is the “results” of today’s test.
@Franklink please take note as these results directly contradict the idea that a more expensive arrow is more important than the Indian; thus EFT as an arms race would seem to yield diminishing returns.


IMG_0354.jpeg
 
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None of the three are in the "cheap" category.

For 80 yards with some and none wind, I wouldn't say your three groups are very definitive in which is the winner.

Your widest groups is also the target you noted to have right to left wind.

The conclusion I'd arrive at here is that pellets shoot better in no wind. And that three fine gun/scope combos in the $2-2.5k or more category, all shoot pretty decent.

Retail value were talking what....
6k plus for the Black wolf/Sigtron combo?
4-5k for the RW in a chassis and the NF scope?
2-3k for the RAW/Athlon rig?

You're sitting on most of $15,000 worth of shooting equipment (just in this one example), assessing which of the THREE rigs might have a slight advantage.

You're proving my point here Rudy.
 
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The horizontal spread on the black wolf results suggests wind may help explain the dispersion.

I understand testing pellets takes time and effort but it makes a significant difference in my guns. I've been shooting my 22s but I'm getting better results with AEA pellets than the H&N and JSB pellets I used to think were the best in them. You could also find that wind drift varies by brand. Even sticking with 34 grain pellets there are other possibilities that may be worth shooting.
 
All three groups from 3 different guns are fabulous at that distance, you should be proud! Like Franklink said above, all 3 guns are awesome builds with wonderful barrels and triggers! You have 3 excellent .25 shooters and have the option/luxury to shoot whichever one you feel is right for that competition. You are a wonderful shooter also 👍, dedicated to your craft.
 
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Today was the DAY, perfect weather with 2-5 mph cross winds and a slight overcast.

The challenge - shoot my 3 different .25 EFT rigs, back to back to get a ten shot sample group from each at 80 yards from my indoor bench to my outdoor range.

The goal was to choose my primary EFT rig.

Guns used for this challenge included:

A brand spanking new Blackwolf 23” barrel
AOA level 2 tune, chassis stock, topped with a lightly used Sightron S6 10-60x60 SFP. A zero DB moderator was added.

Next up, A lightly used, Redwolf I acquired from AGN’s notorious @AirNGasman, which now sits in a PRS chassis. I topped it off with a Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 SFP. A Silent Thunder Ordnance Sarissa moderator was used.

Last but not least, was another AGN purchase, a HMX1000 RAW in a chassis. Although I am the third owner of this gem, it truly appeared almost new. I topped it off with an Athlon Heras SPR 6-24X56 FFP. A Silent Thunder Ordnance FAUX moderator was used.

All guns were shooting the JSB 33.95 heavies and each gun was tuned to push these pellets at aprox 930 FPS, which is a very appropriate speed for these Diablo pellets.

Don’t cry foul, but, No attempt was made to pick the perfect pellet for a particular gun. Each gun was factory tuned or out of the box, and other than me specifying the pellet speed I wanted, no other mods were involved. I also didn’t weigh, wash or lube the pellets and all pellets came from the same tin.

My indoor bench has a single leg so it’s a bit jittery. I used clicks rather than holdovers for this reason, which minimizes my 69 year old eyeball mistakes.

The Blackwolf was the loudest of the three and the most air hungry; but the regulator was set at Daystates’ typical 170 bar and was the most likely reason for this. Oddly the RAW HMX was the quieter of the three and the most air efficient. I have no idea what the HMX 1000 reg is set at.

The Blackwolf was the most expensive gun, followed by the Redwolf and then the RAW HMX.

This picture is the “results” of today’s test.
@Franklink please take note as these results directly contradict the idea that a more expensive arrow is more important than the Indian; thus EFT as an arms race would seem to yield diminishing returns.


View attachment 588638
Holy smokes Rudy, you are a madman. haha. all 3 of those groups are great for 80. yds. wind just blew the first group to the left to open it up a little. all good tho.....BC
 
None of the three are in the "cheap" category.

For 80 yards with some and none wind, I wouldn't say your three groups are very definitive in which is the winner.

Your widest groups is also the target you noted to have right to left wind.

The conclusion I'd arrive at here is that pellets shoot better in no wind. And that three fine gun/scope combos in the $2-2.5k or more category, all shoot pretty decent.

Retail value were talking what....
6k plus for the Black wolf/Sigtron combo?
4-5k for the RW in a chassis and the NF scope?
2-3k for the RAW/Athlon rig?

You're sitting on most of $15,000 worth of shooting equipment (just in this one example), assessing which of the THREE rigs might have a slight advantage.

You're proving my point here Rudy.
You have to remember that one man’s nickel is another man’s quarter. Seriously, one would expect that the top dollar investment would net the top score 🤷‍♂️

These three rifles have at least a $1k price difference between them. $4, $3, $2 thousand - substantial difference. And yes, many Airguns can be acquired for $1000 or less, but this list shows vastly different prices which is the point.
Additionally, All rifles but the BW were acquired used on AGN as were All scopes; So acquisition prices were considerably less than new, also an important factor.

so as “I” look at the groups the least expensive rifle was the HMX1000 which also had the cheapest scope and it shot the best group this morning.

Yes, all groups were acceptable, and I’m sure with a little time to sort out each guns tune and pellet choices, all the groups would certainly tighten up, but at what cost?
 
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I would immediately drop the reg to 130 bar set the hammer wheel to 17 and up reg till you get 930 fps and do it again ! If you paid aoa to tune that gun you got screwed! This is why I’ll never have a blackwolf! And i hope when you tune it it shoots as well as the others. Oh i kinda think Cole is right
your reading my mind, as that’s 🔥my plan. this is my “how they showed up” on the doorstep intro shoot/ comparison.
 
Yes, all groups were acceptable, and I’m sure with a little time to sort out each guns tune and pellet choices, all the groups would certainly tighten up, BUT AT WHAT COST?

I don't know if your choice of words was intentional, but I got a kick out of it either way.

With even the cheapest you're past that certain performance:$$$ threshold that (usually) gets you (or at least much more likely gets you): good triggers, quality barrels, consistency, repeatability, ergonomics, etc.

"One mans quarter is another man's nickle," sure, but not many are gonna try to argue that $13,000 - 15,000 is couch cushion money.
 
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My HM1000x delights me every time I shoot it and that's just killing cans and paper at 40yds, lol. Mine is set at 143b and shoots heavies at 910fps. Don't have any Daystates to compare....
The wind direction was pretty much right to left for all three guns/groups but a bit more wind was present when shooting the Blackwolf.

What’s cool is I have very little experience / time with any of these guns as I really avoid shooting a .25 in my backyard 🫣.

I zeroed each at 40 yards and set my center of scope to center of barrel height using a 15 yard target with a thin line to cut. Then I plugged the data fields into chairgun elite and Shazam… the clicks for all three guns was spot on.
🎯
 
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I don't know if your choice of words was intentional, but I got a kick out of it either way.

With even the cheapest you're past that certain performance:$$$ threshold that (usually) gets you (or at least much more likely gets you): good triggers, quality barrels, consistency, repeatability, ergonomics, etc.

"One mans quarter is another man's nickle," sure, but not many are gonna try to argue that $13,000 - 15,000 is couch cushion money.
Yes my choice of words was intended to be humorous… I cringe at the idea of buying a $2.5 million dollar yacht because of the cost of diesel fuel 😜 perspective 👀
 
That's going to be a tough decision!

Sell the ones that finish 2nd and 3rd, buy a pallet of pellets, practice like crazy, and you'll probably win some EFT matches, if not the whole GP.

When I was at AOA earlier this week they had a used BW in a chassis with the plenums. Was tempted but not much reason to buy such a gun currently.
 
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notorious @AirNGasman

I've been trying to think of a clever response, but my train of thought keeps getting inexplicably interrupted by a line spoken in the movie Unforgiven in response to the head-mistress of Greeley's 'Emporium' telling Little Bill "You just kicked hell out of an innocent man!"

Says Little Bill, "Innocent of what?"

Not sure why I relate to that line. :unsure:

.
 
I've been trying to think of a clever response, but my train of thought keeps getting inexplicably interrupted by a line spoken in the movie Unforgiven in response to the head-mistress of Greeley's 'Emporium' telling Little Bill "You just kicked hell out of an innocent man!"

Says Little Bill, "Innocent of what?"

Not sure why I relate to that line. :unsure:

.
It had to do with the #11 "amp" setting message you sent me a while back.
 
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The wind direction was pretty much right to left for all three guns/groups but a bit more wind was present when shooting the Blackwolf.

What’s cool is I have very little experience / time with any of these guns as I really avoid shooting a .25 in my backyard 🫣.

I zeroed each at 40 yards and set my center of scope to center of barrel height using a 15 yard target with a thin line to cut. Then I plugged the data fields into chairgun elite and Shazam… the clicks for all three guns was spot on.
🎯
Thought I would add a twist to this test…
the least noise and best group came from the HMX 1000, but, it was rocking the STO Sarissa high flow moderator. To be absolutely fair I need to repeat this test using the same STO Sarissa moderator on all three Platforms as the Sarissa high flow is superior in all respects to the donkey d*ck Zero DB or shorter STO Faux. Stay tuned!
 
My advice is shoot the gun that feels the most comfortable while shooting in field target positions and practice, practice practice, practice practice. Your groups were all about the same no matter what the price range was so practice. also for competition gun I could care less how loud it is. money will only get you so far. The rest of it has to come with practice.
 
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My advice is shoot the gun that feels the most comfortable while shooting in field target positions and practice, practice practice, practice practice. Your groups were all about the same no matter what the price range was so practice. also for competition gun I could care less how loud it is. money will only get you so far. The rest of it has to come with practice.
Good advice.
Finding the "most comfortable rig" is very important!
The pairing or selection of the right scope to the gun is also critical. Why? Well the .25 Redwolf in a PRS chassis weighed in at 13.5 lbs, The .25 Blackwolf in Daystates chassis weighed in at 12.5 lbs, the .25 HMX1000 in Raws chassis weighed 11.5 lbs.
A heavier platform can tolerate a heavier scope if it's resting in the sticks. But if i put the BIG S6 scope on the HMX1000 it would become top heavy and tippy pretty quickly.