Big Bore Airgun Deer Hunting Ammo Selection: Hollow-points or Flat Nose Slugs?

[UpNorthAirGunner]

So I hope this starts a good discussion as I think it is a valid question to ask.

In talking with my local gun shop owner who has probably killed more deer than all of us combined (he is 80 years old) - he has given me pause about what slug I want to be shooting on opening day of deer season.

Basically, after I showed him my recent AirForce Texan Fruit Salad video he told me I was considering the wrong ammo.

https://youtu.be/-vzZyGHILfE

In this video I am testing various hollow-points for the upcoming deer hunting season - and after showing it to him he gave me an earful of dissent and disagreement telling me that I shouldn't be considering a hollow-point at all.

In a nutshell he pointed out that we really should be using slugs with large meplat flat noses vs. hollow-points to give us the most penetration possible when hunting deer given the power ranges of our big bore airguns. He raised a good point in that taking broadside shots on deer makes a hollowpoint a great option, but what if that perfect broadside shot doesn't present itself?

If the deer is quartering away or towards you - he pointed out that we need to be considering that our shot needs to get through a lot more of the deer's body to get to the boiler room and through the vitals or possibly even having to go through a shoulder or multiple bones. "You should be aiming and shooting for the exit hole - not the point of entry - just like archery hunting." He kept saying to me. 
With that in mind, wouldn't a slug with a large meplat be the better option?

He also made a good point that archery equipment is lethal through the effects of the overall cutting radius (min. 7/8 inch here in Michigan) and firearms dispatch the deer through blunt force shock - but big bore airguns do neither of those things extremely well.

He also questioned how much expansion are we actually getting from these hollow-points from the lower powered big bores? Guns shooting below 800 FPS? We all love the beauty of a nicely mushroom hollow-point, but is it the best option for deer?

I countered his argument though that if my AirForce Texan .45 modded to shoot 700+ FPE and should be enough power to ensure a pass through or at least close to it even on a deer quartering away or towards me with a hollow-point - wouldn't I be getting the best of both worlds?

He told me to go read up on what the handgun .44 Mag deer hunters are doing on their forums as that is the closest cousin we have to big bore airgun hunting.

Would love you hear from you all on this one....

 

[T3PRanch]

Punch through to the vitals is important BUT there are many videos of airguns with HP's shot into ballistic gel that show an incredible wound cavity being opened up when the initial contact occurs (hydro-static shock which seems to be greater with hollow points). This leads to much tearing and disruption of critical systems within the animal ..... much more than a straight .457 hole produces imho.

 

[UpNorthAirGunner]

That is what I was thinking too - but that large hydrostatic shot wave happens in the first few inches of penetration. If you have to take a shot on a deer from a weird angle is that energy dumping too soon and not getting deep enough through the vitals? I am in the online forums now reading up on what these handgun / pistol deer hunters are thinking and their experience as their projectiles are really close to energy levels and caliber to what we are shooting here in Big Bore Airgun land. Interesting reading....

 

[PerkyVal]

Back when I was young and stupid and wondered around in the snow at 20 below we almost always used Nosler ballistic tips for whitetails.

It seems to me that if there is such a thing for airguns youd get the penetration of a spitzer, with the expansion of a hollow point.

 

[T3PRanch]

If true expansion is wanted at the normal airgun power levels then someone will have to come up with a composite metal projectile rather than pure lead. Now Mr. Hollowpoint shooting with helium would probably have expansion from a "brick" bullet. lol

 

[PerkyVal]

If true expansion is wanted at the normal airgun power levels then someone will have to come up with a composite metal projectile rather than pure lead. Now Mr. Hollowpoint shooting with helium would probably have expansion from a "brick" bullet. lol

Dont the polymags expand? I would think that a "balastic tip" slug made for airguns with the softer lead would work, wouldn't it?

 

[T3PRanch]

That would qualify as composite. Need to get Nick Nielson to swage some with ballistic tips for testing (he may have already done some of this .... I'll contact him and see).

 

[PerkyVal]

I'd love them made in .25 too!

 

[AirNGasman]

I disagree with the adage, "Experience is the best teacher". It isn't. BAD experience is (inarguably) a much better teacher!

That said, the old hunter is right on point with most of his opinions. However, I assume he has zero experience hunting deer with big-bore airguns, so we must take his opinions with a grain of salt.

I have little experience hunting deer-sized game with big-bore airguns, but all three of those experiences resulted in the ungulates dropping instantly in their tracks. Then again, I didn't have to consider penetration or expansion on brain shots (with 9mm pellets at 900 FPS).

BTW, neither did I have to consider expansion with a 28 grain .22 pellet at 900 FPS on 50-100 pound hogs; but penetration, certainly! They also dropped instantly in their tracks.

However in my discussions with well-experienced big-bore airgun deer hunters, I've found similar divergence of opinions about hollow-point versus wide-flat-nosed slugs as I've seen in handgun hunting circles. Like many things terminal-ballistics related, I think selection of the best choice of slug for chest shots boils down (again) to matching the slug to caliber, velocity, and prey's physiology. 

To paraphrase, there is no one particular proper choice, but many improper choices. Bottom line- know your chosen combination, and how to use it! 

 

[addertooth]

As far as air guns go, I consider the Texan a special case. Most air rifles have nowhere near the FPE of the Texan. Although a compelling case could be made for hollow points for the Texan, I feel like most of the air guns in the 150 to 300 FPE range are at risk of lacking penetration on deer size targets. Keep in mind your round only has a small chance of hitting between ribs; most likely it is going to have to first break a rib before it penetrates any deeper. For this reason, I tend to not endorse hollow points for most big bore air rifles if you are going for a heart lung shot. For a noggin smack, probably either type of round is equally effective.

 

[ahnlaashock]

I want an exit hole. Without it, you cannot recover half the deer your hollowpoints kill if you are hunting anything thick. Very little blood trail.

My qualifications on whitetail are extensive, from guide to butcher to bowhunter myself. No hollowpoint bullets allowed in camp, even in hi-powered powder burners.

 

[Imold]

No deer hunting with airguns in my state of Mn yet but I would like to have something like what I’ve been using the last 40 or so years with my PB’s which is Core-Lokt ammo for as long as I remember so for me I would like something along that line for airgun hunting with my Texan 45 or 357. I think something around a 160gr with the .357 and then I’d would go with something in the 220-270gr with the 45 in a round nose and built like the core - lokt, I guess something along the line of the Benjamin Nosler Ballistic tip would be as close as a person could get right now with airgun which is similar to what I have used in muzzleloader and what they also have for PB’s but I still would like a bullet based on the Core- Lokt for my airgun and with that said I would go with a Flat Nose for deer over hollow point if I could hunt deer in Mn with airgun.

 

[Makoda]

He is correct, and also with your flat nose bullet you show there, it is most likely to start yawing and tumbling which will create plenty of damage similar to your hollow point but with much better penetration. PB produce enough energy to open a hollow point or mushroom a core-lokt type bullet as well as continue to push that bullet quite deep into the body. With our slugs we need penetration most of all. And expansion wastes a lot of that energy very fast. But you have to remember that these bullets are still tearing good sized holes (especially tumbling) and can get plenty of penetration which is very lethal. Very similar to powder burners hunting elephants, big bullets with good penetration.

Which leads me into a part of the PB world that I really do not like. People believe too often that their guns are so powerful they can kill with poor shot placement. When bullets travel very fast they do create a shock on the organs and nervous system of an animal which can be fatal. At the same time this is just that, shock, that can wear off after 30 seconds or so and the animal gets back up and runs off. I have seen others do this more times than i would like to say, so like always it comes down to shot placement.

And being as hunting will always have less than perfect shots taken I would always go with penetration over expansion.

 

[heavy-impact]

A brain shot drops them every time with no damaged meat.

 

[Bullfrog]

I say non-of-the-above. 

Rigid big-bore pellets kill deer dead within 20 seconds on quartering thru shots. And often you don’t have to trail them because the deer just stares at you until death takes them.

Don’t believe me? Take an 81 grain JSB .357 pellet and shoot a whitetail thru the lungs at 130-150fpe out the barrel and see what happens. 

 

[Brian.in.MI]

It’s simple. Find the most accurate slug for your big-bore and wait for the perfect shot. I’ve killed MANY big, MI whitetail with a variety of airguns. The most powerful of which is the Texan at “only” 350 fpe with 265gn NSA HP’s. I mostly go for head shots, but even the heart / double lungers only go about 50 yards and drop dead.

 

[crittahitta]

At first I thought the hollow points but after looking at your picture Im thinking a solid bullet. That hollow point didnt open that much wider than the rear of the bullet. The deeper penetration might be better. I truly think it is more about shot placement with airguns. Dont take the shot unless it is a good shot. Just like when hunting with a bow. I think with your Texan's power either type will be more than adequate.

 

[T3PRanch]

People act as if this is something new. It's NOT! For 300 years (1600's through the 1800's) big bore airguns were used successfully for big game hunting in North America and Europe with round ball which had ZERO expansion. Black powder is a very similar prospect for many bygone years too!

From Wikipedia: Throughout 17th to 19th century, air guns in calibers .30–.51, were used to hunt big-game deer and wild boar. These air rifles were charged using a pump to fill an air reservoir and gave velocities from 650 to 1,000 feet per second (200–300 m/s).

Airguns are NOT a new invention but rather a re-invention using modern manufacturing methods, machines and materials.