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"Best" pellets testing accuracy?

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Robgmn

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Oct 22, 2020
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MN
Yes, I know there is no "best", but I want to narrow it down just a LITTLE. I will do a lot of reading here for sure, but as a newbie in need of some quick help, I can't search 500 threads with 5,000+ posts quite yet. And, this post is kind of a crossover as it speaks to the gun plus the pellet. Sorry if it should be in another topic area.

Short story: Tinkered with inexpensive airguns for 30+ years. Have pistols and rifles. Nothing even close to match-grade. I have some destructive woodland critters that I have tried to dispatch with poor success per # of shots. 

I have a Daisy 717 and a Beeman P17 that I am using b/c a rifle is impractical for the situation. I have tried to adjust the sites on both guns and find that I cannot get anything resembling a decent group out of either gun to indicate whether my site adjustments are what they should be. I'm in my basement, shooting into paper at 35 feet from a rest. Homemade target box with interior lighting so I can see every shot the second it hits. I've done all I can to eliminate user error in causing my bad groups. 

I've tried several different pellets and weights 7.4, 7.9, 8+, pointed, rounded, "destroyer" (Crosman). Even tried some wadcutters, but not a LOT. Weights are based on what I have read seem to be optimal. They all seem to fly wild. I find it hard to blame such radically different pistols, yet also hard to blame the ammo since I've used many types. Unless I should be blaming BOTH since my process of elimination has eliminated nothing...

Any advice on how to zero in (couldn't help it) on what the cause MIGHT be is appreciated, hence the "best ammo" request. if I have SOMETHING that is almost a perfectly known variable (or at least very consistent), then i can try to figure out the rest.




 
My P3 and 747 both love the Meisterkugeln wadcutters but the inexpensive Gamo matches and the RWS hollowpoints do quite well also. Although both of these guns are very similar to yours my guess is the barrels are not the same. So your mileage may vary.

Have you checked your breech seals? A piece of tissue paper sitting atop the breech as you shoot will let you know if there is a leak.

How long since you have cleaned the barrels of your guns? 

Are you sorting your pellets or at least picking out those with any damage to the skirts?

Flat nosed /wadcutter ammo is often the best for this kind of low power shooting.

My guess is that both of your guns are capable of dime size or near one hole groups at that range.

You need to get a decent group before you can zero your sights.

Little things can make a huge difference accuracy wise.
 
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That is good advice from biohazardman.

I just wanted to comment on the woodland critters part. Bear in mind that both the P17 and 717 are single-stroke pneumatics that produce a leisurely 350-400fps at best with lightweight pellets. That is borderline for being able to penetrate. If you are referring to critters no bigger than a mouse or chipmunk, that will do. But just barely. It would not be suitable for a gray squirrel, for example.

The 35ft range at which you are testing is about 11y or 10m. I don’t know much about the 717 but the P17 has a good reputation for accuracy and it has a remarkably good trigger for its price. I have one and it will drill a dime-sized spinner at 10m over and over and over again with several different types of pellets. With its preferred pellets, it will remove fresh paint from the center of the spinner and the perimeter untouched. That’s with the ball of my hand rested on a table and with a red dot sight. I don’t much care for notch and post open sights. Granted I did touch up the crown and the leade a bit but it was pretty good out of the box.

What size groups are you currently getting with the best pellets? Not a cherry-picked group, more like the average group size?
 
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I also have a P 17 that is very accurate. With a rest I can hit the bottom of a soda can over and over at 20 yards. And I’m not that even that good with a pistol. And my trigger is good on mine also. They are nice shooting guns for such a low price. I was using the H&N 8.64 grain.I have some RWS wadcutters that shoot very good in some of my other pistols but haven’t tried them in my P 17 yet.
 
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The Daisy 717 is a super accurate pistol that I really regret parting with many years ago. I would say it was just about as accurate as my 717s and 777s. I shot rpigeons anddovesrats, in a warehouse with it at distances from 6 yards to 15 yards all head shots. Surprisingly without missing. My friend who was a spitter to shine the flashlight liked it so much he bugged me till I agreed to let him buy it with scope that I used a set of discontinued quick peep 22 scope mount that snugged/clamped the scope to the barrel. Looks very similar to the $13 Leupold 22 rings sold today. I could hit tin cans out to 45 yards with no wind. They are rated only at 360fps factory spec so only limited headshots on rats and birds to a 15 yard maximum. The CHEAP Gamo match and black coated Beeman Chinese made Hollowpoints pellets and 7.4gr Crosman Pointed (not the oversized Crosman 7.9gr Superpoints that get stuck in the barrel use only7.4gr). The Beeman P17 has a little more power and almost as accurate as the Daisy 717 the same ammo tried and the 7.9gr Crosman Premier Hollowpoints as well. I usually don't use wadcutters in my low powered pistols that shoot around 400fps or slower for hunting. Just want the little edge for penetration.

I really lije the old Daisy side levers super quiet and real easy to cock and shoot all day long without fatigue. Keep a wooden dowel always with the guns to push out stuck pellets in the barrel that are too tight that won't shoit out if that happens.

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/9/daisy-717-part-1/

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/09/daisy-717-part-2/

https://youtu.be/R9XBikmEp2Q
 
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In an effort to keep the thread less cluttered:



Have you checked your breech seals? A piece of tissue paper sitting atop the breech as you shoot will let you know if there is a leak.

I will try this the next time I can do some shooting.

How long since you have cleaned the barrels of your guns? 

Never have, but probably less than 750 shots through them combined. I remember reading once that airguns may actually work better without being perfectly clean, but that was not my reason for not cleaning. ’Just didn’t think to do it. May run some patches and solvent through at this point.

Are you sorting your pellets or at least picking out those with any damage to the skirts?

If the skirt is not near perfect, I don’t use it.

You need to get a decent group before you can zero your sights.

Yep. I realized how bad the groups were once I started trying to set the sights up for sight-shooting (I had been point-shooting at larger targets like small frying pans at 50 feet just for the satisfying “plink”).

What size groups are you currently getting with the best pellets? Not a cherry-picked group, more like the average group size?

Even a cherry-picked group would suck. I may get one or two shots that are “tight” but 5-6 shots results in a 4” in group on a good day.

Granted I did touch up the crown and the leade a bit but it was pretty good out of the box.

I'm not familiar with these terms, but I will be looking into them.



I appreciate the feedback! It’s hard to troubleshoot when there are multiple variables involved, but I will try the suggestions. And I’m getting another toy (Crosman 1377) to play with, just to make things more confusing (or maybe less, if it groups well).

I know, I know, “instead of several mediocre guns, buy ONE good one”. But, I have less invested in 5 guns that have given plenty of fun than what HALF of one “good” one would cost.

Tradeoffs…
 
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Oh, ouch! 4" at 10m is the good end of spectrum? Even mediocre pellets like Crosman hollow points from Walmart should do vastly better than that. If it were just one of the two pistols, I would suspect a barrel defect but given the reputation for each model, it would be an extraordinary stroke of bad luck for both to be bad. But it's pretty easy to push a couple of pellets through to look for problem areas so it would be a good idea to do that. Here's a DIY guide that covers how to do that, including example pictures of crown and leade issues and how to fix any problems you find. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130555
 
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My P17 will shoot an acceptable group with several different pellets, but the most accurate is the Daisy wadcutters lubed with Lemon Pledge. I can hit the AV metal rams 9 out of 10 @20 yards. That is as far as I can see them with open sights. 10M groups are around 1 1/4" or slightly less. The only game I have shot with a P17 is a chipmunk and it did not drop right away. It did eventually die and I found it later stinkin up the wood pile. If you want a dead chipmunk stinkin up your garage or shed, use a P17. if you want a clean kill that drops, use a pellet rifle or a modern PCP pistol (PP750).
 
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My P17 will shoot an acceptable group with several different pellets, but the most accurate is the Daisy wadcutters lubed with Lemon Pledge. I can hit the AV metal rams 9 out of 10 @20 yards. That is as far as I can see them with open sights. 10M groups are around 1 1/4" or slightly less. The only game I have shot with a P17 is a chipmunk and it did not drop right away. It did eventually die and I found it later stinkin up the wood pile. If you want a dead chipmunk stinkin up your garage or shed, use a P17. if you want a clean kill that drops, use a pellet rifle or a modern PCP pistol (PP750).
Click to expand...

I'll do a little research on lubing pellets, but am happy to try anything that is nondestructive (for now). Three critters have been dispatched wiith single shots.It's the complete misses that I'm trying to deal with (as in, pellet goes wide and the critter esentially ignores it).

I appreciate the PCP pistol idea, but the cost of admission seems a bit higher (at 8x the cost of the Beeman) than I'm looking for right now. 






 
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Life has gotten in the way of fun as of late but I did get to do a little testing across the guns (including the new 1377 that arrived with some wadcutters), and I learned at least a few things. THought I'd share since I've gotten help here in moving forward: 

  1. My shooting rest was not as stable as I thought and my freehand shooting is even worse than I thought.
  2. The Beeman is not as accurate as the 1377 (I took the 717 out of the game since it is old and I have the original box and everything with it. Might as well keep it "collectible")
  3. The Crosman hollow points I was using suck. I realized after a few dozen shots in a row that some of the skirts are wider than others and take a little extra effort to put in the barrel. These fly even wilder than the ones that go in with just a little effort.
  4. The wadcutters are more accurate than the HPs, and just drop right into the barrel. And these are only Crosman wadcutters. Nothing fancy. Yet
    [/LIST=1]

    I'll post another update once I get to devote some time to learning and trying.

    Thanks again for the help!
 
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Life has gotten in the way of fun as of late but I did get to do a little testing across the guns (including the new 1377 that arrived with some wadcutters), and I learned at least a few things. THought I'd share since I've gotten help here in moving forward: 

  1. My shooting rest was not as stable as I thought and my freehand shooting is even worse than I thought.
  2. The Beeman is not as accurate as the 1377 (I took the 717 out of the game since it is old and I have the original box and everything with it. Might as well keep it "collectible")
  3. The Crosman hollow points I was using suck. I realized after a few dozen shots in a row that some of the skirts are wider than others and take a little extra effort to put in the barrel. These fly even wilder than the ones that go in with just a little effort.
  4. The wadcutters are more accurate than the HPs, and just drop right into the barrel. And these are only Crosman wadcutters. Nothing fancy. Yet
    [/LIST=1]

    I'll post another update once I get to devote some time to learning and trying.

    Thanks again for the help!
Click to expand...


  1. Mine likes the H&N 8.64 grn.Pellets. I haven’t tried the RWS wadcutters that I have yet.But the RWS wadcutters do you shoot good in some of my other pistols.Once I find a pellet that shoots good in any particular air rifle I have then I don’t try any other type. And although the H&N Shoot good in mine it doesn’t mean they’ll shoot good in yours.
 
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I found that in my Crosman F4 that the 7.9 gr Crosman Premier Hollow Points group better than anything else I have tried. I shot several 5 shot groups that were less than nickel size at 30 yards. One of the shots that were off would I consider a flier. Mostly the shooters fault. One group shooting off of a really stable rest, three shots were actually touching. Pretty happy that I have finally found a pellet that groups consistently.
 
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Robgmn,

I have some Crosman Premier 7.4 gr pointed that are very inconsistent on the skirts. Some fit really nicely and others will almost slide through the barrel. The Premier 7.9 gr Hollow points are really consistent on being a snug fit. Not difficult to load at all. Have some Winchester round nose that fit very snug. For my gun, I think the Premier Hollow Points fit the best and most consistent of any I have tried (gamo, stoeger, crosman, daisy). They group extremely good at 30 yards.
 
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