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Best gun for a 25 meter and 50 yard competition

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gh6airgunner

Member
Aug 24, 2018
59
15
Utah, United States
Having long been an FX guy shooting the 22 Impact was OK but not outstanding. The gun shot the 18gr much better then the 25 gr but going to competitions this year all of them were shooting in the wind. Being new to competition shooting it was difficult to get consistent results. I moved to a RAW HM 1000 and it shoots much better but not always consistent. Group shooting I can shoot 3 groups at 50 yards under .25" inch, then shot 3 groups over .75". I have been researching both Daystate and Thomas in my quest for the most consistent gun for competition. My goal is to find the most consistent 25 meter and 50 yard gun. I'm looking for any advise or opinions, Thanks for the help. Glenn

PS also willing to customize and test my way to a great gun.
 
I'd like to know THE answer to that one too, subscribing! Clearly the FX and Daystate guns did well at the EBR, not sure about the 25/50 contests. Right now my Cricket 22 shoots pretty good, but if something better (more accurate/precise) came along I'd be quite interested. I've shot FX and RAW and Air Arms and some of them sometimes equal but so far do not surpass my Cricket. I shoot mostly 50 yards and less but am hoping to shoot a bit further soon.


Regards,

John
 
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If your RAW is capable of shooting 1/4 groups at 50 yards then in the same conditions with the same shooter it should continue to shoot 1/4 groups.

what you need to do is explore the reason why something’s the groups open out, any loose components on the gun, any inconsistencies over the chrono, faulty magazine, dirty barrel, pellet selection, bottle securely fitted to the gun etc. Once you have ruled out everything gun/pellet related, start to look at the shooter.

when you are aiming for perfection then the smallest thing can make a difference, keep a log of when the gun is shooting well and not so well, temperature and atmospheric pressure can affect the flight of the pellet, cold air is more dense so pellets move more slowly through it, low pressure and high humidity have the same effect. Warm , dry air high pressure have the pellet moving faster. Temperature also changes the way the internals of the gun react with each other, cold will make oils more viscous, components shrink in size alternating the fit be

tween part. A difference in the speed of the pellet by only a few fps can have a noticeable difference in accuracy.


What speed are you shooting at? Often guns are pushing pellets too fast, yes a fast pellet gets there quicker and has less of a trajectory arch to contend with but I find that in the smaller calibres, .177 - .22 then speeds of 780 -850 fps seem to be the optimal for precision.

My advice, stick with what you have and stick at it.

Bb


PS

This target was shot at 45 yards, outdoors moderate tail wind. Theoben rapid .177 AA Diablo fields at 780fps

the top group (on the 6) is 8 shots single loaded

the middle group is 17 shots magazine loaded, notice the slight change of poi with the mag or it could be a slight lull in wind speed?

the pellet below the target is a .177 pellet that I pushed into the hole of a 4 shot group single loaded.



1574066554_18860095995dd2597a7076e8.24316801_546A4697-5C54-4504-8628-3A2CE421D6B5.jpeg



 
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First off, I would agree with bucketboy. If your RAW is capable of shooting 1/4 inch groups it should shoot 1/4 inch groups in similar conditions. I would stick with it until I found out what was causing the group to open up and see if you can make the necessary adjustments to get more consistent groups.

I own a RAW TM-1000 and a Thomas, both in .177. I think the Thomas is more consistent than the RAW but it cost almost twice as much. If you are seeking the most consistent groups over those ranges, you probably have a Thomas in your future. Let me know if you want more details, Dennis.
 
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Plus one for the Thomas. While I haven’t spent much time shooting at 50yds. I can attest to the accuracy and consistency at 25yds. The attached photo is 25 shots at 25yds. 

I prefer the loading ease with the Thomas over the Raw. Fat fingers and small openings become problematic. 

My experience shooting at 50yds. is limited to field target where consistent small groups are not as critical so I haven’t spent much bench time there. 

Corky

1574088325_9332584445dd2ae8559e409.74916272_7BF0BAD3-DDB8-4D40-84DB-A9194E5FCC33.jpeg

 
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Bucketboy

I like the thoughts. The RAW is still pretty new to me and of course some of the inconsistency is me. It is weird that the group sizes change so quickly. I have been working the speed down as I go but the RAW just doesn't have as many adjustments without pulling the gun apart. Right now I'm shooting 25gr JSB's at 922 avg and 2.1 SD on 25 shots. Which seems good at this point. The pellets are just out of tin with no measuring or cleaning.

Thanks to everyone else lets keep the ideas going as I would love to solve this.

Anyone know of people or places to go get instructions to work on me? Also anyone out there that does professional fitting of the gun to shooter that would also be very helpful.

Thanks again Glenn
 
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Bucketboy

I like the thoughts. The RAW is still pretty new to me and of course some of the inconsistency is me. It is weird that the group sizes change so quickly. I have been working the speed down as I go but the RAW just doesn't have as many adjustments without pulling the gun apart. Right now I'm shooting 25gr JSB's at 922 avg and 2.1 SD on 25 shots. Which seems good at this point. The pellets are just out of tin with no measuring or cleaning.

Thanks to everyone else lets keep the ideas going as I would love to solve this.

Anyone know of people or places to go get instructions to work on me? Also anyone out there that does professional fitting of the gun to shooter that would also be very helpful.

Thanks again Glenn
Click to expand...

The RAW is e easy to work on and very easy to adjust the pellet speed.

Hammer preload, screw it in for more power out for less.

if that doesn’t get you the speed you are after, adjust the reg nut, clockwise more pressure, anti clockwise less pressure 1/6 of a turn at a time, ideally do this with a reg tester or with a gauge screwed into the bottom of the block.

pip length, this determines the amount of time the hammer has to get up to speed, short pip hammer attains more speed, more power, long pip, less speed less power.

spring guide, fitting a metal spring guide adds weight to the hammer and give more power, delrin/ptfe spring guide less weight less power.



it sounds to me that your gun has been tuned to shoot accurately at distance, what you want is for it to be precise at 25-50 yards, just because you can do sub moa groups at 100yards does not mean it will blow the centre out of a target at 25. 

try AA Diablo fields or jsb exacts 16 and 18grn at 840 fps, this may sound strange if you are used to power but the gun will be much more gentle to fire, less vibration less likely to induce shooter errors and you don’t need power to make a hole in paper.



good luck



Bb


 
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I find my ADD makes consistent shooting a challenge and that is why I target shoot; it take consistent mental focus to be able to place shot after shot in the same exact place......Most any good rifle will out shoot the person shooting it;When all variables are the Same....

IF all variables are the Same! As the wise pro target master told me a long time ago," you do not need a new gun,save your money and practice more".....This was after he took me gun and shot a perfect score.....how could I argue the results before me,I would have paid him bocoo money for one of his target guns,he showed me the truth....Skill can not be bought.

I use the word skill as knowledge as learned experience from my doing something and learning from others doing the same thing.

That is good reason to ask questions like the above,we all have insights.....forget about opinions, they are useless in your quest for answers,only someones experience and learned knowledge are any help.


 
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Glenn, I Have a filling you'll work throgh this, I have a filling your a person that like a challenge. First things. If I was you, I take all your airgun buddy's out for beers. We'll really appreciate it. Oh, your RAW, Plan B. As you stated you just got it. My RAW prefer's a dirty barrel. I mean dirty, it takes about 450 pellets before is shoots good groups. But it only stays in the sweet spot for about 300 pellets. I found I can pull one patch with Ballistol then three dry patches. It take 100 pelllets and back in the sweet spot for 300. Fussy maybe. I'd try different pellets. I wouldnt rule out other brands. Remember the Raw is the same design as the Thebon mkII. The MKII was built long before Jsb's where on the seen. Maybe the Grizzly's or H&N's, They have a thicker skirt and like the hard hitting RAW. If you must use the JSB'a try and speed the 25gr JSP's up. More like 965fps. Reach out to Raw, I think they have a set up for the 25.4 gr pellets.

If all else fails. Go back to Plan A. Get those friends beer's

Oh one other thing. Take a hard look at the magazine. Mine had problems and RAW replaced it. I actually bought use magazine's here and prefer them to the new RAW magazines 


 
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THOMAS!, “just spend the $$$ now” I own a RAW Bm-500 and it is a phenomenal gun very accurate & consistent... but I compete against a lot of Thomas’s and most are FT guns that can be easily set up for 20ftlb heavy varmint they are exceptionally accurate airguns! And if you talk with Mike he will guide you with your primary discipline, also want to add you can adjust for classes in BR with just a jet change and the hammer spring is easier to adjust on the fly than the RAW, My next 25-50m br gun will be a Thomas!
 
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I compete at 25m shooting .177 at HV power. 50M appears to be a different game - possibly better shot at .22 with more power.

At 25M the two main guns are RAW and Thomas, though at our club Mac1's USFTs do very well too. At LV power Air Arms, Feinwerkbau, and Steyr are also competitive. Brand is probably not that important. After competing for a few years, my conclusion is the gun is essentially a barrel holder: You will be competitive with a good barrel stuck in a reliable gun that provides air with reasonably small variance (extreme spread of FPS), hopefully with a good trigger. That's it, except for the hard parts.

Hard part #1 (which can sometimes trump #2) is learning to read and shoot in the wind. Get good flags and learn how to interpret them and hold for wind. Once you learn this you won't need to practice much but discipline and the hard work of paying attention every second of every card is essential.

Hard part #2 (which can trump #1) is finding pellets that shoot well in your (ostensibly good) barrel. This is a difficult job: you have to learn how to test properly (best indoors), and control variables such as wind and barrel-cleaning protocol as best you can. It is very easy to get this wrong, especially because "hope springs eternal" and you want to romanticize how good each new pellet seems to be. (Not too different from dating 💋) I have found that most lots of match pellets are not good enough to win matches. It is very frustrating to hold properly for wind, then shoot a defective pellet that drops you 1-2 points.

I didn't address barrel testing because 1) it is very difficult, and 2) I got lucky with my barrel. If buying the gun new ideally the maker tests barrels extensively, and that is a huge part of what you are paying for.

Kim
 
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The advise is all very good. I have changed to a .177 shooting the 16.2gr JSB. After shooting it for the first time getting the scope setup and sighted I was able to shoot a perfect target at 25 meters. OK I admit that 3 of the shots had to be plugged with a .221 gauge to get the 10 but I'm super happy with the performance. The 50 yard performance is also good but time and cold weather kept me from doing much more than shooting groups. The speeds are high at the moments and shooting out to 100 yards gets sketchy, but this gun was bought for 25 meter and 50 yard benchrest. I have much more testing and practice to do but I'm looking forward to a great 2020. I will update the thread once I have good data.




 
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