Best caliber for head shots on small pigs?

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Wasn't it Jim Shockey that did some videos of hog hunts with a gamo break barrel in 177? Why or lord why isn't he in jail for Animal Cruelty?!?!?!?!

Because no one cares about feral hogs that are decimating our farm lands... unless you're a cry baby snow flake who can't figure out how to keep their panties from bunching!

 

[revenger]

Wasn't it Jim Shockey that did some videos of hog hunts with a gamo break barrel in 177? Why or lord why isn't he in jail for Animal Cruelty?!?!?!?!

Because no one cares about feral hogs that are decimating our farm lands... unless you're a cry baby snow flake who can't figure out how to keep their panties from bunching!

I do agree with this statement but at same time I point to the people out there that cast their stones towards people who want to kill a deer with an airgun that is 100 FPE or under. If it's legal and you can make a a good shot then go for it. A hog's life is no less important than a deer's life or a squirrels life. The skill of the hunter and knowing your quarry and your gun inside and out is what matters most. One of the reason I make over 100 FPE with my .25 Avenger now. If I want I can turn it down to 30 FPE and plink or go full power and take larger game if I see fit.

 

[Emu]

.30 Cal.

 

[delooper]

Pretty sure if you're pesting feral hogs there isn't a legal size limit. People use tannerite FFS.

Also, you do realize they make 177 pellets and slugs that weigh more than some 22 or 25 ammo? If you got the gun to push them it'll do just fine. You'd think a guy who does a bunch of air gun reviews would know this stuff.

I think its pretty clear kaylaindy is part of the "bigger is better regardless of physics or reality" squad.

If bigger were better for short-range headshots, you'd have to wonder why captive-bolt slaughter devices for cattle are mostly .22 and .25 rimfire cartridges. And for them, it's primarily the magnitude of powder being burnt they're concerned with, not the diameter of the projectile, i.e. they're mostly concerned with the v^2 term in E=mv^2/2.

 

[jps2486]

While all may work, I vote for the .25. Pigs can be tough.

 

[Raider03]

THAT…was impressive! Heretofore, I would have never thought a 177 caliber pellet would do that to a pig. Well, I stand erected. I’ve seen three pigs shot with correctly placed 25 caliber pellets to the head and they all quivered more than that piggy in the video. Helluva shot, AirArcher. Damn…

That being said, I would never recommend a 177 caliber for shooting pigs when there are, to me, better options available such as a 25. AirArcher can do it as he has the patience of Job and his highly proficient with his weapon of choice, both hallmarks of a good hunter. But…and feel free to opine here Air Archer…I’d be willing to bet if he had to rely on a 177 or a 25 to absolutely, positively take down a pig…let’s say to feed the family…he’d grab the 25.

I know…dead is dead. But I feel you increases your odds at arriving at “dead” with a larger caliber.

And the thought that a smaller caliber pellet will out-penetrate a larger caliber pellet due to the decreased frontal area does not ring true with me. A smaller caliber of EQUAL weight, traveling at the same velocity as its larger brethren may penetrate more, but I am unaware of any 34 grain 177 pellets. Also, as we live in the realm of the Diablo shaped pellet and the 830-930 fps window in which they work in, the velocity is really a non-issue. Given the right gun, you can make a 25 go as fast as a 177. Anything you can do velocity wise with a 177 caliber pellet, can also be done with a 25 or 30 caliber pellet. Further, as hydrostatic shock is a non-factor when talking about shooting something like a pig with an air rifle, we are dependent on the permanent wound cavity, meaning tissue directly destroyed by the projectile, to do our work. All else being equal, a larger caliber is going to leave a larger permanent wound cavity than a smaller caliber.

I wouldn’t think of trying to shoot a pig with my 22 caliber Brocock Sniper pushing an 18 grain pellet at 860fps. Why? Because I have two 25 caliber Impacts and a Cricket that will move a 34 grain pellet just as fast.

I’m not calling anybody names, nor am I saying killing a pig with a 177 caliber pellet can’t be done because it certainly can. I’m just saying I think it’s a more better idea, and your odds are increased of cleanly taking a pig with a larger caliber. In this case, the larger the better.

Justin

Thanks for this reasonable and rational summary.

 

[Raider03]

Imo when we’re talking brain shots, penetration is the determining factor on wether or not a projectile will get the job done. I’ve never had an animal keep going with a shot that actually hit the brain, didn’t matter if it was a bb, pellet or bullet.
Smaller caliber projectiles do penetrate easier than larger caliber projectiles so I would much prefer a powerhouse 177 over a moderately powered 25. A lot of the economically priced pcp’s would do better for bigger game in the calibers they were designed around. As long as you’ve got the penetration the only thing that matters is shot placement.

Beau

Hi, what do you consider a powerhouse 177? 35FPE is about the upper limit I am familiar with.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Hi, what do you consider a powerhouse 177? 35FPE is about the upper limit I am familiar with.

30 fpe in 177 is ALOT of penetration power. That's a near super sonic ice pick of a slug

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I also agree if I had a 40 fpe 22 or a 40 fpe 25, give me the 22 for more penetration power. Sure 22 will bleed off more power in the same distance as a 25 being shot but why would you be using an airgun for long distance shots on a hog unless its packing alot more power?

 

[Raider03]

30 fpe in 177 is ALOT of penetration power. That's a near super sonic ice pick of a slug

Yes, but, a powerhouse 25cal can deliver 80FPE +

 

[JimD]

My P35s in 22 and 25 are both tuned to 32 fpe because their favorite pellets are about the same weight. I've tested penetration in wet magazines and the 22 penetrates further, as expected. But it is easier to get 32 fpe out of a 25, I had to turn the regulator down or it would be higher than that on my P35-25.

I think a lot of the differences in opinion about how much is enough is driven by differences in how we hunt. I know I am not real patient and when I get a shot I want to take it. I may not let the animal walk away even though I don't have a perfect angle for placement. I don't want to use a minimum power level because if I am a little off with my placement the animal may not die quickly. A more patient and/or more skillful hunter may do fine with less. I think those that are thinking of using something like a 177 should think carefully about how patient and careful they are as a hunter.

 

[moodyblues]

Hi, what do you consider a powerhouse 177? 35FPE is about the upper limit I am familiar with.

To me somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 foot pounds would be a heavy thumper.

 

[qball]

Yes, but, a powerhouse 25cal can deliver 80FPE +

Penetration is related to FPE but it is also related to sectional density. If you are looking for penetration, power isn’t everything……..that’s what she said at least.

 

[qball]

That's super messed up. People should not promote that kind of thing. You glorify a lucky .177 shot, and then other people try it.

Think McFly, THINK!

While I agree to a point about promoting using less power when hunting but it certainly was NOT a lucky shot. It was barely 20 yards and if someone miss a 2 inch KZ then nothing will help them.


Also you should NOT promote the idea that 177 is weak, many kids die every year thanks to Walmart 177 “toy” guns. Also for reference I shot 12.5 nsa 177 grain slugs through a 5gallon bucket of water vertically at lowly 700FPS and it made a hole at the bottom of the bucket. Same bucket of water stopped a 25 cal pellet at 900 fps, it sank to the bottom.

 

[delooper]

If you agree the goal of a headshot is to crack the skull and rip the brain to bits, then the issue is how do you get through that skull? The bigger the diameter of your pellet, the more difficult the job is, as you have to displace more skull material to get the job done.

That's why headshots traditionally are done by high-speed small calibres.

 

[JimD]

While it is true that it takes less fpe to get a given level of penetration with a smaller diameter projectile it is also true that it is harder to get a given level of fpe with a smaller diameter projectile. Considering both factors I am pretty sure I can get more penetration from larger calibers in most guns. While my P35-22 out penetrates my P35-25 it's reg is set lower since I use 20 grain FTTs in it (they are the most accurate). With the reg set the same the 25 would have more fpe and more penetration.

 

[delooper]

While it is true that it takes less fpe to get a given level of penetration with a smaller diameter projectile it is also true that it is harder to get a given level of fpe with a smaller diameter projectile. Considering both factors I am pretty sure I can get more penetration from larger calibers in most guns. While my P35-22 out penetrates my P35-25 it's reg is set lower since I use 20 grain FTTs in it (they are the most accurate). With the reg set the same the 25 would have more fpe and more penetration.

Then why don't the professionals follow your advice? Captive bolt slaughterhouse guns are high-speed and small calibres. These are specifically designed for close range (zero distance) headshots on mature animals with thick skulls.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

My P35s in 22 and 25 are both tuned to 32 fpe because their favorite pellets are about the same weight. I've tested penetration in wet magazines and the 22 penetrates further, as expected. But it is easier to get 32 fpe out of a 25, I had to turn the regulator down or it would be higher than that on my P35-25.

I think a lot of the differences in opinion about how much is enough is driven by differences in how we hunt. I know I am not real patient and when I get a shot I want to take it. I may not let the animal walk away even though I don't have a perfect angle for placement. I don't want to use a minimum power level because if I am a little off with my placement the animal may not die quickly. A more patient and/or more skillful hunter may do fine with less. I think those that are thinking of using something like a 177 should think carefully about how patient and careful they are as a hunter.

32 fpe in 25 is borderline anemic especially for a pcp. I feel 25 needs 45 fpe plus to be worthy of the price difference for the ammunition. Otherwise just run the 32 fpe 22 and save money and have better penetration.

I know you said it's the best pellet for the gun, but I would be trying alot more to find something it'll shoot thats heavier. If the same gun can produce 32 fpe in 22, you should be able to get 45-50 fpe in 25. I haven't found a rifle yet that really likes the FTTs in 25 either.

 

[Zebra13]

Then why don't the professionals follow your advice? Captive bolt slaughterhouse guns are high-speed and small calibres. These are specifically designed for close range (zero distance) headshots on mature animals with thick skulls.

I think that question would be best answered on the SlaughterGun Nation forums…

We’re not talking about high velocity…we’re talking SAME velocity. Any speed at which you can push a 177 Diablo shaped pellet accurately, the same can be done with a 25 caliber Diablo shaped pellet (or 22 or 30), and it will weigh 2-3 times as much. As such, it will penetrate further, and on living tissue, it will cause a larger permanent wound cavity due to its larger diameter/frontal area. Period.

Pellets kill via the permanent wound cavity, that being tissue destroyed by the projectile, in this case a pellet. The best way to destroy more tissue with a pellet is to shoot a larger caliber pellet!

Compare apples to apples. If we start “what iffing” tuned down 25’s versus hot-rod 177’s, 22’s, sub-12 30’s, 25 caliber pellets vs 177 caliber slugs, this thread could become longer than the Leshiy thread!

Besides, honestly, who would APPRECIABLY tune down an air rifle to hunt pigs with?

And all of this caliber stuff means naught if, as AirArcher has said, you don’t put the pellet in the right place.

Justin

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

If you agree the goal of a headshot is to crack the skull and rip the brain to bits, then the issue is how do you get through that skull? The bigger the diameter of your pellet, the more difficult the job is, as you have to displace more skull material to get the job done.

That's why headshots traditionally are done by high-speed small calibres.

Bingo, smaller caliber will be more effective even at lower FPE,...something else not talked about is the ammo, on smaller calibers I always use Baracuda and Benjamin pellets because they are harder.