Benjamin Marauder .25 Efficiency tune?

Okay so I am fairly new to air gunning as far as PCP rifles go, however I just purchased an Mrod in .25 caliber and sighted it in for 50 yards. I have done loads of research on a video or some sort of article that breaks down "tuning" my Mrod for better efficiency but have yet to uncover anything truly helpful. I have gathered that the marauder in .25 cal is set to high power and low shot count from the factory for one magazine or 8 shots but..... I have seen tons of articles and videos of .25cal Mrods shooting like 20-40 shots on one fill at like 30FPE !!! I got the .25 because I use it to hunt small game and I liked the take down power being a little more forgiving for less than perfect shot placement. I simply want to be able to grab 16-24 usable, accurate, efficient shots and Im not too worried about the fpe as its so high to begin with for what i hunt i doubt it will fall to a level i need to worry about. I know there is no specific breakdown of exactly what to do but I am unaware of how to even adjust my trigger and I take air gunning serious as i truly enjoy it and i know this gun is capable of way more than i can provide. I would like maybe a picture or diagram showing me where these adjustment screws are for adjusting power and so forth ( not really worried about the trigger) and someone to just give me an idea of where I can turn these things to so that i am in the "ballpark" of where i desire. I have a chrono i am borrowing from a friend this weekend because obviously i know thats essential for this lol but if i could just get some tips or presets that may make my life easier i would greatly appreciate it. This forums members have helped me a ton already and i truly appreciate all the help and i plan to pass on all i learn. Thanks in advance guys and as always Happy Hunting!

PELLET: JSB Exact King 25.4g sighted at 50 yards. 

PS: I have went hunting with this gun and shot it several times so its not that I have never really "experienced" the gun yet, I just have yet to touch it from factory settings including the trigger.
 
Hmm, well, this can certainly be a rabbit hole...

If I were you I would focus on a lighter weight MDS hammer (50+ gr if planning to stay unregulated) and a SSG. (spring stop guide) You can google marauder ssg and find plenty of results. Any form of a free flight hammer vastly improves efficiency/shot count.

I have personally done A LOT of modifications to my .25 cal marauder....the short list of those are:

New valve seat @ .225
New poppet @ .25" OD with stem @ .04 from poppet face to rear of valve throat
Valve/Barrel/TP ported to .212"
Light weight MDS hammer (25gr and 42 gr)
Custom SSG's
Regulated with a plenum extension totalling 45 cc's of plenum volume.


I achieve 40-48 shots @ 42~ FPE but the above mods truly are a lot of work and not fully required to achieve that. Half of my valve mods are purely there to just allow the valve to open easier(I only use a 6 lb hammer spring with a 42 gr hammer) the rest are for improved air flow.

With the MDS hammer and SSG alone you would likely see around 24-32 shots depending on your desired power level (35/40 fpe). 

There are A LOT of ways to skin a cat/achieve results you desire. The simplest IMO would be what I suggested (MDS Hammer/SSG)

-Matt
 
I would first buy a Chronograph and see what your rifle is doing. I bought mine at Sportsman's Warehouse for around $100. Out of the box it will most likely be shooting 800-820. I would fill to 3000 and shoot 20 shots or stop when the shot starts to really drop off. You would like your spread from top to bottom to be around 20 fps ( ex. 820-800 fps). With a regulator you are shooting for 10 fps. If you increase the speed you will lose shot count. Without mods, I would keep it under 820 fps. I have done all the mods and average 840 fps getting 28 shots. Others are doing better. Without doing any mods you should get around 18 shots with an average speed of 805-810 fps.
 
18 shots with that fps would be perfectly fine for me ! like i said i shoot all small game so thats still plenty for takedowns out past 50 yards. I am going to use a chrono but I just havent been able to see which screw does what. I would like to start adjusting it to average those fps and shot count you stated but which screws do what or is there a image or site i can review this on ?
 
Read the owners manual, should make some mention of where the adjustments screws live at least.
My friend Jeff did this on his blog a while back
https://avveduti.wordpress.com/tag/marauder/

( not sure what page that is click around)
lot's of nice pictures and information on tuning for a marauder, his were .177 & .22 but it's all the same.

Click through those pages and with that knowledge and a chrony you should be able to adjust it pretty well to your liking.

John
 
Just remember that there is a hole at the back of the breech and that there are 2 adjustments in there. 2 different size allen wrench. Smaller one adjusts hammer throw and the larger one adjusts spring pre-load. You shot it over the chrono and just try decreasing the larger hammer spring by turning it counter clockwise to being the fps down just a bit. But there are tons of ways to adjust these guns. But for my 177 Marauder, I took the factor setup and reduced the hammer spring by 1.5 turns. Shoots a 10gr 177 at 915fps. haven't touched it since.

Crusher
 
I have a .25 SynRod gen2 and I "detuned" it once like you are asking. Here is the shot info and the basic tuning info. YOURS WILL BE DIFFERENT but maybe close to this. 

The tune is called "New Improved Brian Low Tune" or NIBLT created by a guy in Arizona named Brian. Not my work, just copied him. 

NIBLT Low TuneFill 2650 -1850 (gun) Hammer Spring 2 7/8 Hammer Throw 6 1/4 VMS 5 ccw 
771-792-772 25 good shots AVG 785 ES 23 SD 7.7 using JSB Kings 25.4 ends up being in the 35 FPE range

Here is a website that has a lot of good info on tuning marauders.....
Marauder Tuning[/QUOTE]http://www.marauderairrifle.com/marauder-tuning/embed/

Hope this helps. Best, Gary
 
There are LOTS of U-tube videos on the Marauder and also a Marauder forum. I found this article awhile back, hope it sheds some light

Found this while researching how to “tune my Marauder”. As he states it is not a “how to” but rather a what are the components and a starting place. Thought this might be of help to other Marauder shooters. This was written in 2009 most likely for the Gen 1 but will apply to the Gen. 2 model. He has several other posts which go into the start place if you want more information. I thought it was stated concisely and easy to understand. Hope this helps others :ShadowShot:

Hello all,I am sure there will come a time when some one will ask, (like I am), 
what is the factory setting for this part of the rifle, or that part?
I have not tried to call or email the factory yet on this. I am not to sure they
would give out the information but I don’t see why they wouldn’t.
I thought it would be a good idea to collect what factory settings
we have found or collected, and pool the information here for reference.I know, for example, the commonly found factory setting for the hammer stroke length,
or the “Hammer Throw” in the .22 cal rifles are maxed out at full throw length. 
IE: (The 1/8 Allen screw adjustment backed counter clockwise all the way out.). 
This controlls how far the hammer travels before striking the valve.This collected information is not intend to be a, “how to”, for tuning your Marauder.
It is only here for restoring your rifle to the original factory set points. You may have lost
yours during tuning or never wrote them down when you started.There are two basic areas of adjustments for the factory 2500psi Fill.
1. Velocity, which is controlled by three areas of adjustment.
(a) Hammer spring preload
(b) Hammer Stroke Length
(C) Valve Metering Screw.2. The trigger assembly.
(a) Trigger Pull
(b) Trigger Position
(c) Trigger StagesIf you would, please be very specific when you post.
I know many things can be said here of safety, how to adjust, what adjustments you have made
and so on. If you will , please post something like, “My .22 or .177 rifle came with the Hammer Stroke Length
turned 2 turns in from it max out position”. We may find that the settings are the same for both rifles. As the information comes in, I will try to keep up with it here
in this main post. Once we have completed collecting the data,
Gene might find the information of some library value.Thanks for your input and help.
ShadowShot Here is how you start:Crosman Marauder Tuning ProcedureTuning your Benjamin PCP with the use of the Hammer Spring Tension Adjuster and Hammer Stroke Adjuster
by Ray and Hans Apelles ~ The “A” Team
Caution: All testing should be done with muzzle pointed in a safe direction and into a safe backstop!!!!
Principles
Preparation:
There are many different ways a PCP may be tuned/adjusted. With the adjustable Hammer Spring Tension and
Adjustable Stroke you have virtually all you need to tune a PCP to your liking.
This Document will give you a brief introduction into adjusting and from there you will need to experiment to get the
performance you desire.
A certain amount of force is required by the hammer to open a valve to achieve a particular velocity with a given pellet.
This can be applied in a variety of ways. At one extreme the hammer can be moved a long distance (stroke) with a low
spring tension. At the other extreme the hammer can be moved a very short distance (stroke) with a very high spring
tension. And there is everything in between. Each method yields a different firing characteristic. It is up to the end user
to decide how he would like the gun adjusted to suit his needs and firing characteristic desires.
A long stroke, low spring pressure setting will give a very light cocking effort and long spring life. As the hammer opens
the valve, the pressure from the reservoir combined with the valve return spring pressure will close the valve. With a light
spring pressure the hammer is likely to be thrown back far enough (and off of the valve stem) that the hammer spring then
gets re-tensioned and the hammer gets thrown forward to hit the valve stem again and expel more air. This can be heard
and sounds as though the gun is burping out air for as many as 3 or 4 burps per shot.
A short stroke, high spring pressure setting will yield a heavy cocking effort and possibly shorter hammer spring life. As
the hammer opens the valve, the pressure from the reservoir combined with the valve return spring pressure will close the
valve. With a heavy hammer spring tension the hammer can’t get thrown back so far (or possibly not even off the valve
stem) as to tighten up the hammer spring and throw the hammer back onto the valve to burp out more air. There is the
small possibility that the valve may also close slower, allowing more air to escape, because of the added hammer spring
tension keeping the hammer against the valve. This method of tuning usually yields a shorter sharper crack at discharge.
This method yields little to no Hammer Bounce.
The best balance between the long stroke low spring tension and the short stroke high spring tension is what is desired.
The following guide will help you achieve a setting that will give you the desired velocity. It will be up to the user to
achieve the balance they desire for an optimal setting. An optimal setting will give the highest efficiency yielding little to
no hammer bounce, reasonable cocking effort and good shot consistency.
It would be a good learning experience to try each method so as to learn the characteristics of each in your particular gun.
Start with the long stroke low hammer tension (which is very similar to the factory setting) and then try the short stroke
high hammer tension method. After learning each you can then find a balance between the two. When finding the
balance, if you can hear any air burp then you should adjust more to a shorter stroke higher hammer tension. You are
looking for that fine balance which can only come from experience. At the end of this document you will find a method for
determining charge pressure and shot count. It is advisable to do each for the 2 different methods so you can see the
difference in shot count and velocity curve which will give you an idea of the efficiency you have achieved in each.
After finding your setting for each method, you can determine that setting by inserting the adjustment wrenches and
counting how many turns to get back to the end stops. An example would be 7 turns in hammer spring, 5 turns in stroke
yields 850 fps with xyz pellet with a 2000 psi charge for 25 shots. Using this method you can always get back to a
particular setting while you are trying different settings.
A) Hammer Stroke Adjustment (HSA): With the gun assembled, adjust the hammer stroke to the longest stroke position.
This is done by inserting the Hammer Stroke Adjustment (HSA) allen wrench through the Hammer Spring Tension
Adjuster (HSTA), through the spring, into the hammer and catching the Hammer Striker. Then turn counter clockwise until
the Striker is to the fully retracted position. This is the start position for your adjustments.
B) Hammer Spring Tension Adjustment (HSTA): With the gun assembled, adjust the Hammer Spring Tension to the least
tension position. This is done by inserting the Hammer Spring Tension Adjustment (HTA) allen wrench into the end plug
and catching the HSTA and turning counter clockwise until the Hammer Spring Tensioner is to the fully retracted position.
This is the start position for your adjustments.
Revised 6/1/2009
C) If it is possible, make an identical replacement of the transfer port but change the ID to .110″ or smaller. It is rare that a
PCP needs a transfer port larger than .110 to achieve 20 ftlbs. If you are trying to significantly reduce the power of (as an
example) the Discovery then you may go smaller yet. As an example, one that we tuned used a .105″ transfer port to get
just below 20 ftlbs. The transfer port in the Discovery is large because it is designed to work with CO2 as well and needs
the larger size for the lower pressure CO2 gas. A Transfer Port that is large enough to give you the velocity you desire
but no more will give you a flatter velocity curve. It is not mandatory that you replace the transfer port but it is beneficial.
In the case of the Marauder, turn the transfer port adjustment all the way in (clockwise) and then turn it out 4 revolutions
(counter clockwise). This is the starting point for the adjustable transfer port which is now all the way open.
1) Set up a chronograph station with the assembled gun on sand bags in front of the chronograph so your readings will be
consistent. The Muzzle should be at least 18 inches from the first sensor to prevent incorrect readings.
2) Have initial adjustments of the PCP set to A, B and C above.
Note: you will initially be tuning for a particular charge range so you will need to charge the gun to the same pressure
each time and every 5 shots or so to maintain pressure during setting. Changes in charge pressure will give you changes
in readings that will confuse the issue. Once the settings are complete then you will determine correct charge pressure
and number of shots for that pressure.
3) Charge gun to a pressure that will be a little above the middle of your desired charge range. Example: If you are
looking to charge to 2000 psi and shoot to 1000 psi then charge to 1600 psi for testing.
4) Turn in (clockwise) the hammer tension until you feel tension on the hammer spring and then turn 1 more revolution in.
5) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
6) Increase hammer tension 1 turn.
7) Repeat 5 and 6 until your desired velocity is reached.
8 Shorten your hammer stroke 1/2 turn.
9) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
10) If your velocity stayed the same go to 8. If your velocity decreased go to 6.
11) Keep making adjustments (remember to charge every 5 shots) and chronographing until you are satisfied with the feel
of the shot cycle. This is learned through experience and can not be adequately explained.
4) Cock Hammer.
5) Turn in (clockwise) the hammer tension until you reach full coil bind and can not turn the hammer tension in any further
(gun may fire during this adjustment). Fire gun. Cock the hammer again. If it will not cock then turn hammer tension out
1/2 turn. Cock gun again. Repeat until gun will cock reliably.
6) Turn hammer tension out 2 to 3 turns.
7) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
8 Shorten your hammer stroke 1/2 turn.
9) Repeat 7 and 8 until your desired velocity is reached.
You may see that as the stroke is decreased the velocity will actually increase. This is a common phenomenon as a more
efficient setting is reached.
Adjustments:
Method 1
Method 2
Revised 6/1/2009
10) Keep making adjustments (remember to charge every 5 shots) and chronographing until you are satisfied with the feel
of the shot cycle and velocity. This is learned through experience and can not be adequately explained.
If your PCP has an Adjustable Transfer Port (as does the Marauder) then you can fine tune the velocity.
1) Turn the adjustment screw in ¼ turn at a time and chronograph a shot.
2) Make another ¼ turn adjustment and chronograph another shot.
Repeat the process until you reach your desired velocity.
During this process you may notice that the PCP gets quieter and blows less air but the velocity doesn’t change much.
This is common as you are achieving a more efficient setting. Your shot count will increase as well.
Another benefit of a PCP with an adjustable transfer port is that you can dramatically flatten a velocity curve by restricting
the transfer port and increasing the energy used to open the valve stem.
You will increase the usable charge pressure band and increase shot count in the process.
You will have to experiment with the settings to achieve this type of balance.
It will not be explained in detail here. It is mentioned here so you can strive to achieve such a balance as you are gaining
experience with the other adjustments.
Fine Tuning Velocity with an Adjustable Transfer Port
Re 
 
You guys are great !! I took it out today and shot it over the chrono and im not good at all this but this is what i got it to do. My data is spotty because my whole set up is borrowed and Jerry rigged at the moment but it works lol....

3000psi fill and did 3/4 inch groups at 50yards (I think it works well at least for now im far from good at this lol)

Jsb Exact King 25.4g
Shot down to 2550psi for shot 16

Average FPS: 818

Shot 1: 795
Shot 2: 803
Shot 3: 796
Shot 4: 806
Shot 5: 810
Shot 6: 819
Shot 7: 816
Shot 8: 815
Shot 9: 820
Shot 10: 828
Shot 11: 829
Shot 12: 826
Shot 13: 830
Shot 14: 836
Shot 15: 835
Shot 16: 839

I shot 24 for this string but for some reason totally forgot to pay attention after the 16th shot. Excitment i guess because i shot through almost my whole tin of pellets had to order one when i got home lol. So i know this isnt the best but it shot well and gave me my shot count i need.

i believe I'm at 6.5 turns CW on the hammer spring (bigger Allen key) .

Here is a pic of some of my groups (50yds). I shot in 3 shot groups so that i didnt just make a massive hole and throw off my aiming point. Some shots were from when i chrono'd eariler on but no flyers really i prepick all my pellets. 

bc5cde239a4f447267f16ffa5a2f9296.jpg


 
 I would only fill to 2800 next time and shoot another string and keep shooting until it starts to really fall off. You will get a bell curve (with no regulator). The goal is to shoot in the middle of the bell. Ex. 825 to 840 back to 825, even though your shot string is from 800 up to 840 back to 800 on a 3000 fill (just giving an example).

Looking at your shot spread, you may see your POI rise at a 3000 fill. That's why I'm suggesting you start at 2800. Gauges can also be off. Without a regulator you can over fill the reservoir and you can experience a huge rise in the pellet speed. To compensate for this, back off on your fill.
 
That is the velocity sweet spot I prefer for my .25 Marauder. A most excellent squirrel knocker! And NMShooter is exactly right, if you fill to 2800 and shoot a string to its peak velocity, and keep shooting until you get back down to ~800fps, you will see the nice run of usable shots you have. If I recall correctly, any shots within 4% extreme spread (ES) will have no noticeable shift at fifty yards or less, so if 840fps is your peak, the shot string 808-840-808 would be your "usable" shot string. For a little more precision, you can narrow it down to 3%ES which would be 815-840-815 (again, like NMShooter was talking about. :)
Once you know what exact pressure your gun is at when it is shooting 808 or 815 - whichever you choose - there is simply no reason to fill any higher, you're at the top of the sweet spot.