Beeman Kodiak .25
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Webley? I don't know that for a fact though. I typed "who made the Beeman Kodiak?" into Google and thats what popped up a bunch.
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I have some Beeman Kodiak pellets that I got from someone getting out of airgunning. I had never seen or heard of them before. Some 21gn in .22 and 30gn in .25. The tins don't mention their weight. I reached out to Beeman but never heard back. Eventually put them on a scale. The .25's shoot quite well out of my Maverick.
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Better eat your Wheaties!
They are no joke to cock. They are very well made as with all original Webley's.
Beautiful examples there Mike! (as always)
They are no joke to cock. They are very well made as with all original Webley's.
Beautiful examples there Mike! (as always)
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Not my cup of tea. I had a Kodak for all of a hot minute. The cocking effort and recoil were, in my opinion, unpleasant. My neighbor shot it once and had his eyebrow bloodied by the scope. I thought a Theoben Eliminator would be more manageable, however, that puppy required even more cocking effort than the Kodiak. I was done with it after 3 shots. I’ve long since limited my springers to the low/mid range of the piston power spectrum. I’ll leave the magnum springers to the young and strong.
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Its a Webley Patriot / Kodiak. They are not that bad to cock in factory form. The aftermarket springs make them stout. Triggers are ok. Thr .25 barrels are oversized and no choke. When done right they can be a lethal critter killer but you are not cocking a R7
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I have one in .25 that I sent out for a gas spring install.
It really make cocking nicer and the shooting stroke is quite good. It was a scope eater but not anymore.
The stocks on these rifles are so nice.
It really make cocking nicer and the shooting stroke is quite good. It was a scope eater but not anymore.
The stocks on these rifles are so nice.
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I bought a . 25 Beeman Kodiak back in 93 when they 1st came out. Beeman advertised them as one of the most powerful spring piston guns with 30+ ft/lbs of energy. It liked the lighter pellets, HN match, better than the heavier 31 grn Kodiak pellets. I was getting around 25.5 ft/lbs with the heavier pellet and 29.5 ft/ with the lighter ones. Nice gun and fairly accurate. Just don't hold them too tight, very hold sensitive.
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725 fps with the stock spring? That would be 36 ft/lbs . Wow, that is the hottest Kodiak I've heard. Kodiak s usually don't fair well with the heavier pellets, like most springers.
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Beeman wasn't only rebranded Weihrauch and it certainly isn't these days. I believe the Kodiak is a rebranded Webley Patriot
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Instead of editing one comment and then deleting the other you could have just said "oops my mistake" and the world would have moved on because it really isn't a big deal. Your comments are still saved in my replies so there really wasn't any point in trying to hide an honest mistake. Whatever though. You do you.
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I have both the Spring and Gas Ram versions of the .25 Kodiak. To answer your original question, it is a Webley product made for Beeman. Different stock with Kodiak being Beech and Patriots Walnut. Spring version is a beast at 30 ftlbs. Put a hole in one of my pellet traps. The Gas Ram version is a little less powerful but has a completely different firing action. Makes it a little more accurate.
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Heres a great old BB blog about this rifle.
Okay, continuing with our round of surprises, today we start looking at the .25-caliber Webley Patriot with a gas spring. Patriots with gas springs were available back in the 1990s, but the gas springs have not been available in recent years. They are again! Remember, the Beeman Kodiak is exactly the same rifle as the Patriot, so whatever I say here also applies to them.
Power stays constant
I didn’t make the swap of powerplants in this rifle, so there’s nothing to compare the gas spring to, but traditionally the power remains the same. What changes, of course, are the firing characteristics. There’s still a forward jolt, but it’s less than with the steel mainspring. Vibration is greatly reduced, and velocity is very consistent with the right pellets.
Hold loosely
With all spring rifles, a loose hold is mandatory for best accuracy. With powerhouses such as the Patriot, a loose hold also protects the shooter. What do I mean by “protect”? Well, a Patriot can give a shooter a headache if the hold is too tight. With the gas spring, the vibration that causes the ill feelings is greatly reduced. The recoil is also less, but in this rifle there is still a fair amount of forward kick. You definitely want to use a scope with proven ruggedness.
Cocking
Let’s be honest, a Webley Patriot is not a rifle you cock with one arm many times – even a standard one. I love to watch real he-men try to shoot a string of just 10 shots. By shot 5, they’ll be using both arms! And, remember that a gas spring has resistance throughout the entire cocking stroke. That translates to a two-handed cocking effort every time. I measured the effort of the test rifle and found it to be just 45 pounds! I had guessed before measuring that it was 60! A steel-spring Patriot cocks with 50 lbs. of effort, so the gas spring is clearly less, though, again, I must say that I don’t think you’ll believe it when you cock the rifle.
Velocity and power
This is what you really want to know. I tried four pellets – Diana Magnums, Beeman Ram Jets, Beeman Silver Stings and Beeman Kodiaks, with Kodiaks being the traditional best pellet for this rifle.
Beeman Kodiaks
I discovered something about loading the Kodiaks that made a world of difference. Don’t push them into the bore. Let the back of the pellet skirt sit flush with or just above the level of the breech, and you’ll gain an extra two foot-pounds of energy. The Kodiak fits the breech like it was made for it, so this technique isn’t difficult to learn. Just load the pellet normally and don’t push it in hard. Beeman Kodiaks averaged 649 f.p.s., which is exactly 29 foot-pounds. They ranged from a low of 646 to a high of 651, for an unbelievably tight spread of just 5 f.p.s. Deep-seating drops the velocity to 610-630.
Diana Magnums
This is a 20-grain domed pellet that works great in Whiscombes, but I haven’t had good luck with it in a Patriot. Some folks love it, though, which is why I tested it. They are too small for the breech of the rifle I’m testing, and the numbers show that all too clearly. If they’re pushed in too far or if the particular pellet is too small at the skirt, the velocity plunges to about 700 f.p.s. When I flared the skirts a little with the fat end of a Bic ballpoint pen, the velocity ranged over 800 f.p.s. Velocity for untreated pellets averaged 731 f.p.s and ranged from a low of 686 f.p.s. to a high of 766. I cannot recommend these pellets for this Turkish-made Patriot.
Beeman Ram Jet
This semi-wadcutter has a domed top inside the flat top and weighs about 24.5 grains – heavier than what is listed on the Pyramyd Air website. Perhaps the older batch I have is slightly heavier. The pellets fall into the breech, then hang up tight on the skirt. They average 740 f.p.s. with a tight spread from 737 to 743 – just 6 f.p.s. That’s a muzzle energy of 29.8 foot-pounds. A potentially good pellet!
Beeman Silver Sting
The Silver Sting is a 25.1-grain pointed pellet that gets very little press, but in .25 caliber I use the H&N-made Beemans almost exclusively. This one has good resistance in the Patriot’s breech and averaged 725 f.p.s., with an 18 foot-second spread from 715 to 733. Though that was the greatest spread of all the good pellets (I’m not going to try the Diana Mags any farther), it’s still very tight for a spring air rifle. The average muzzle energy is 29.3 foot-pounds.
What’s the big deal about pellet fit?
You may have noticed that I seem to pay more attention to pellet fit these days. That’s because I’m currently testing some real magnum spring rifles. All spring rifles are violent with their pellets, often blowing the skirts out against the barrel walls, so pellet fit is important. I think the little experiment with the Diana Mags proves that. These magnums are the absolute worst in this respect, so you want tough pellets that fit the guns well and offer some resistance to the powerful hammer-blast of air.
Is the gas spring worth the trouble in a Patriot?
You bet it is! Just to reduce that terrible recoil and vibration is worth the trouble and/or cost you will go through to get one in a gun. You can also leave the rifle cocked for hours, so hunting becomes a joy again. And, the Patriot is a pure hunting rifle! Nobody will ever mistake it for a plinker after cocking it once. Also, there is zero torque from the mainspring, something that really plagues some powerful spring rifles.
Pyramyd Air has no new Patriots to sell at this time, so until they arrive in January, they’ll be retrofitting your Patriot/Beeman Kodiak rifles. Any caliber can be converted.
Entry-level 10 meter airguns: Rifles
An open letter to airgun manufacturers
52 thoughts on “Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak with a gas spring! – Part 1”
Mike T.
December 19, 2007 at 10:30 am
Okay, continuing with our round of surprises, today we start looking at the .25-caliber Webley Patriot with a gas spring. Patriots with gas springs were available back in the 1990s, but the gas springs have not been available in recent years. They are again! Remember, the Beeman Kodiak is exactly the same rifle as the Patriot, so whatever I say here also applies to them.
Power stays constant
I didn’t make the swap of powerplants in this rifle, so there’s nothing to compare the gas spring to, but traditionally the power remains the same. What changes, of course, are the firing characteristics. There’s still a forward jolt, but it’s less than with the steel mainspring. Vibration is greatly reduced, and velocity is very consistent with the right pellets.
Hold loosely
With all spring rifles, a loose hold is mandatory for best accuracy. With powerhouses such as the Patriot, a loose hold also protects the shooter. What do I mean by “protect”? Well, a Patriot can give a shooter a headache if the hold is too tight. With the gas spring, the vibration that causes the ill feelings is greatly reduced. The recoil is also less, but in this rifle there is still a fair amount of forward kick. You definitely want to use a scope with proven ruggedness.
Cocking
Let’s be honest, a Webley Patriot is not a rifle you cock with one arm many times – even a standard one. I love to watch real he-men try to shoot a string of just 10 shots. By shot 5, they’ll be using both arms! And, remember that a gas spring has resistance throughout the entire cocking stroke. That translates to a two-handed cocking effort every time. I measured the effort of the test rifle and found it to be just 45 pounds! I had guessed before measuring that it was 60! A steel-spring Patriot cocks with 50 lbs. of effort, so the gas spring is clearly less, though, again, I must say that I don’t think you’ll believe it when you cock the rifle.
Velocity and power
This is what you really want to know. I tried four pellets – Diana Magnums, Beeman Ram Jets, Beeman Silver Stings and Beeman Kodiaks, with Kodiaks being the traditional best pellet for this rifle.
Beeman Kodiaks
I discovered something about loading the Kodiaks that made a world of difference. Don’t push them into the bore. Let the back of the pellet skirt sit flush with or just above the level of the breech, and you’ll gain an extra two foot-pounds of energy. The Kodiak fits the breech like it was made for it, so this technique isn’t difficult to learn. Just load the pellet normally and don’t push it in hard. Beeman Kodiaks averaged 649 f.p.s., which is exactly 29 foot-pounds. They ranged from a low of 646 to a high of 651, for an unbelievably tight spread of just 5 f.p.s. Deep-seating drops the velocity to 610-630.
Diana Magnums
This is a 20-grain domed pellet that works great in Whiscombes, but I haven’t had good luck with it in a Patriot. Some folks love it, though, which is why I tested it. They are too small for the breech of the rifle I’m testing, and the numbers show that all too clearly. If they’re pushed in too far or if the particular pellet is too small at the skirt, the velocity plunges to about 700 f.p.s. When I flared the skirts a little with the fat end of a Bic ballpoint pen, the velocity ranged over 800 f.p.s. Velocity for untreated pellets averaged 731 f.p.s and ranged from a low of 686 f.p.s. to a high of 766. I cannot recommend these pellets for this Turkish-made Patriot.
Beeman Ram Jet
This semi-wadcutter has a domed top inside the flat top and weighs about 24.5 grains – heavier than what is listed on the Pyramyd Air website. Perhaps the older batch I have is slightly heavier. The pellets fall into the breech, then hang up tight on the skirt. They average 740 f.p.s. with a tight spread from 737 to 743 – just 6 f.p.s. That’s a muzzle energy of 29.8 foot-pounds. A potentially good pellet!
Beeman Silver Sting
The Silver Sting is a 25.1-grain pointed pellet that gets very little press, but in .25 caliber I use the H&N-made Beemans almost exclusively. This one has good resistance in the Patriot’s breech and averaged 725 f.p.s., with an 18 foot-second spread from 715 to 733. Though that was the greatest spread of all the good pellets (I’m not going to try the Diana Mags any farther), it’s still very tight for a spring air rifle. The average muzzle energy is 29.3 foot-pounds.
What’s the big deal about pellet fit?
You may have noticed that I seem to pay more attention to pellet fit these days. That’s because I’m currently testing some real magnum spring rifles. All spring rifles are violent with their pellets, often blowing the skirts out against the barrel walls, so pellet fit is important. I think the little experiment with the Diana Mags proves that. These magnums are the absolute worst in this respect, so you want tough pellets that fit the guns well and offer some resistance to the powerful hammer-blast of air.
Is the gas spring worth the trouble in a Patriot?
You bet it is! Just to reduce that terrible recoil and vibration is worth the trouble and/or cost you will go through to get one in a gun. You can also leave the rifle cocked for hours, so hunting becomes a joy again. And, the Patriot is a pure hunting rifle! Nobody will ever mistake it for a plinker after cocking it once. Also, there is zero torque from the mainspring, something that really plagues some powerful spring rifles.
Pyramyd Air has no new Patriots to sell at this time, so until they arrive in January, they’ll be retrofitting your Patriot/Beeman Kodiak rifles. Any caliber can be converted.
Entry-level 10 meter airguns: Rifles
An open letter to airgun manufacturers
52 thoughts on “Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak with a gas spring! – Part 1”
Mike T.
December 19, 2007 at 10:30 am
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Part 2
Shooting.
I have an old Beeman quiet trap that included ballistic putty which is much more durable than the duct seal that is popular now. It is actually tough enough to contain a standard .22 LR round out of a pistol. But at the time I do not know that. I take extreme precautions half expecting the Patriot to blow through the trap and cinder block wall behind it.
This is a big rifle. Certainly if you have buddies that rib you because you are an adult and still play with “BB” guns, hand them this. I know it works because I did it. Cocking the Kodiak takes a sharp smack to the barrel just to break it open, not knowing this they will look like 9 year old girls trying to open a pickle jar. At that point, you can advise them to stick with their firearms.
Beeman \ Williams sight added
At least until they are man enough.
Holding the Patriot it becomes clear where the power comes from. While not as heavy as even the stubby HW97K, it is a big rifle. The receiver tube is huge; it feels like it is built to a 125 % scale.
It likes a middle weight pellet in .25 caliber for producing the best sustainable energy, which is not uncommon in most springers. It is also not accurate with the perfect rounds; I even try making it a shotgun loading 2 and 3 of them at a time. Interestingly the total energy remains about the same, which is lower than pellets at just over 24 ft lbs. It comes close with some pellets, but falls shy of the magical 30 ft lb number. I mark the best, as you can see from my notes on the pellet tins. (The 26.4 gr averaged about 702 fps)
Scoping the rifle proves short lived, as it sends the 18x Bushy to an early grave in no time. Rather than challenge it with another scope to devourer, I put a Beeman aperture sight on it. This makes for a much better match in my mind, also keeping a scope out of the way when muscling the 50 + lb cocking effort and reducing the bigness feel. I believe Tom Gaylord said it best when he one time likened holding the Patriot to feeling like a kid shooting his father’s gun.
Classic good looks
Accuracy is on par with the R1, which means excellent.
So what's the conclusion? I think the pellet tins tell the story, after about 5 years I still had pellets from my original order left. I just never found it to be “the one” when I reached for a rifle, and this was long before I started buying and selling airguns just to test drive them. I had bought the Patriot to use, but when? It was without a doubt not a plinker like the R7. Long range went to the flatter shooting HW97K and my R1 and I were such good buddies, it always went hunting with me. The Patriot seldom left the gun safe; I dare say the same thing happened too many of those Smith and Wesson 44 magnums.
Smack the end of the barrel to open it
Conclusion,
You would not use a sports car to haul a load of mulch home, you would want a truck. Personally I would have it delivered. The point is the Patriot was made with very specific uses in mind for which it excels.
About 1/2 my .25 caliber pellets
Now if you are in an area that makes firearm ownership difficult or perhaps you must have more power and only a Springer will work, it would fill the bill nicely. Or maybe you're a 320 lb football player that finds smaller rifles unsuitable. It certainly is a wonderful niche air rifle. But for me, it would be the first air rifle I ever sold. With PCP's becoming common place and now the Crosman Marauder offering over 45 ft lbs in .25 caliber the niche for it seems even smaller.
For clarity, it is important to point out that my Patriot was made in the UK, and that the latest versions were made in Turkey. The reports on the Turkish guns have been all over the board, so buyers beware.
With my usual good timing I sold the Patriot in the photos just before Webley closed their doors, so I asked $395.00 for it which seemed reasonable at the time. They are easily selling for $200 to $300 more now for a UK version.
In any case, eventually I would turn those funds into my first PCP, which I’ll cover soon.
Volvo at 12:40 AM
9 comments:
derrick38May 18, 2010 at 2:44 PM
Volvo,
Nick set up the link to your blog. Yay, Nick!
Orin,
Shooting.
I have an old Beeman quiet trap that included ballistic putty which is much more durable than the duct seal that is popular now. It is actually tough enough to contain a standard .22 LR round out of a pistol. But at the time I do not know that. I take extreme precautions half expecting the Patriot to blow through the trap and cinder block wall behind it.
This is a big rifle. Certainly if you have buddies that rib you because you are an adult and still play with “BB” guns, hand them this. I know it works because I did it. Cocking the Kodiak takes a sharp smack to the barrel just to break it open, not knowing this they will look like 9 year old girls trying to open a pickle jar. At that point, you can advise them to stick with their firearms.
Beeman \ Williams sight added
At least until they are man enough.
Holding the Patriot it becomes clear where the power comes from. While not as heavy as even the stubby HW97K, it is a big rifle. The receiver tube is huge; it feels like it is built to a 125 % scale.
It likes a middle weight pellet in .25 caliber for producing the best sustainable energy, which is not uncommon in most springers. It is also not accurate with the perfect rounds; I even try making it a shotgun loading 2 and 3 of them at a time. Interestingly the total energy remains about the same, which is lower than pellets at just over 24 ft lbs. It comes close with some pellets, but falls shy of the magical 30 ft lb number. I mark the best, as you can see from my notes on the pellet tins. (The 26.4 gr averaged about 702 fps)
Scoping the rifle proves short lived, as it sends the 18x Bushy to an early grave in no time. Rather than challenge it with another scope to devourer, I put a Beeman aperture sight on it. This makes for a much better match in my mind, also keeping a scope out of the way when muscling the 50 + lb cocking effort and reducing the bigness feel. I believe Tom Gaylord said it best when he one time likened holding the Patriot to feeling like a kid shooting his father’s gun.
Classic good looks
Accuracy is on par with the R1, which means excellent.
So what's the conclusion? I think the pellet tins tell the story, after about 5 years I still had pellets from my original order left. I just never found it to be “the one” when I reached for a rifle, and this was long before I started buying and selling airguns just to test drive them. I had bought the Patriot to use, but when? It was without a doubt not a plinker like the R7. Long range went to the flatter shooting HW97K and my R1 and I were such good buddies, it always went hunting with me. The Patriot seldom left the gun safe; I dare say the same thing happened too many of those Smith and Wesson 44 magnums.
Smack the end of the barrel to open it
Conclusion,
You would not use a sports car to haul a load of mulch home, you would want a truck. Personally I would have it delivered. The point is the Patriot was made with very specific uses in mind for which it excels.
About 1/2 my .25 caliber pellets
Now if you are in an area that makes firearm ownership difficult or perhaps you must have more power and only a Springer will work, it would fill the bill nicely. Or maybe you're a 320 lb football player that finds smaller rifles unsuitable. It certainly is a wonderful niche air rifle. But for me, it would be the first air rifle I ever sold. With PCP's becoming common place and now the Crosman Marauder offering over 45 ft lbs in .25 caliber the niche for it seems even smaller.
For clarity, it is important to point out that my Patriot was made in the UK, and that the latest versions were made in Turkey. The reports on the Turkish guns have been all over the board, so buyers beware.
With my usual good timing I sold the Patriot in the photos just before Webley closed their doors, so I asked $395.00 for it which seemed reasonable at the time. They are easily selling for $200 to $300 more now for a UK version.
In any case, eventually I would turn those funds into my first PCP, which I’ll cover soon.
Volvo at 12:40 AM
9 comments:
derrick38May 18, 2010 at 2:44 PM
Volvo,
Nick set up the link to your blog. Yay, Nick!
Orin,
Upvote 0