I have a Diana 350 N-tec. that likes to shoot low even with open sights, the gun is extremely accurate otherwise. I checked the barrel and it looks straight to me. I put washers to raise the back sight so the spring of the open sight stays tight. It's already heavy and I shoot freehand so I don't want to scope it but I also don't like the way it looks with the washers. I'm very reluctant to bend the barrel because I don't want to risk losing its perfect grouping. Is there any other way to keep the iron sight tight without these fixes?
Barrel droop with open sights?
- Thread starter fa2ality
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Beautiful rifle.
I'm certainly no expert in breakbarrels, but the first thing I would do is measure the droop. I used a Wixey electronic angle gauge to check the barrel droop on my new HW30 and HW95. Supposedly the Wixey is accurate within 0.1 degrees. I found almost no droop on either gun.
https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-Type-Digital-Backlight/dp/B00T6YZ0K6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=digital+angle+gauge&qid=1597226278&sr=8-7
I'm certainly no expert in breakbarrels, but the first thing I would do is measure the droop. I used a Wixey electronic angle gauge to check the barrel droop on my new HW30 and HW95. Supposedly the Wixey is accurate within 0.1 degrees. I found almost no droop on either gun.
https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-Type-Digital-Backlight/dp/B00T6YZ0K6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=digital+angle+gauge&qid=1597226278&sr=8-7
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When I measure it with a level (not a digital one) comparing the barrel block to the barrel, I can't find any evidence of drooping. If anything, to the eye it looks like it trends up.
Is there any other reason it would group perfectly, just about 5 inches low, at 10-15yds? I've tried several different grains and brands of pellets and it still likes to shoot low.
Should I go ahead and try bending it anyway? Will that harm it if it doesn't actually have barrel droop?
Is there any other reason it would group perfectly, just about 5 inches low, at 10-15yds? I've tried several different grains and brands of pellets and it still likes to shoot low.
Should I go ahead and try bending it anyway? Will that harm it if it doesn't actually have barrel droop?
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Shoot from longer than 10 yards. Line of sight is not parallels. You pellet starts out 1+ inches lower than the line of sight and is angled upward to meet the line of sight. Too close to the target and you pellet will hit below line of sight
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I have a target (big tin) at 180-200 yards, I get more hits after I added those washers but I'd rather figure out what's wrong and fix it properly.
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Yes, but it can't get to 5" low because of that, it would just need a few more yards to rise.
The front sight setup looks really odd in the photo. Is that something added to the gun? If the front sight is just a bit too tall you would see such and that is what appears to be going on here.
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Hold on - let's just focus on typical springer ranges. At what range are you hitting 5" low? If I read correctly, it was at 10-15 yards, correct? What about at 20, 30, and 40 yards? Does it just get lower and lower?
"Droop" refers to a condition where the barrel isn't parallel to the cylinder tube where a scope would sit. Because the front and rear sights are both on the barrel, droop normally doesn't factor into the equation when using open sights. Bending the barrel up won't really change things much unless you really start to add (or eliminate) a curve in the barrel because it's the orientation of the front and rear sights that's really causing the problem here. It's a possibility that your barrel has a significant curve (although I'm not seeing that in the pics), but let's start with the easy items first. As bandg said, the front sight doesn't look typical, and does look to be on the high side (which would make the gun shoot low). It could be also be that the sight insert (if you have one) isn't the right height, which might be fixable by simply filing it down.
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it may be better to deal with the front sight,I think with the amount of washers you are using something very wrong is happening,take the front washers off,the,fact tke all the washers off and look at the front sight and if you need to add washer just add a few to the very back of sight.
The sights and barrel should be on the same plane,try you best to make it so,Maybe your eyes are wrong,again think shooting plane,go google it and see what I am talking about.....try holding your springer different.
all this advise is from the guy that mounted his drooper backyards
...just saying.
The sights and barrel should be on the same plane,try you best to make it so,Maybe your eyes are wrong,again think shooting plane,go google it and see what I am talking about.....try holding your springer different.
all this advise is from the guy that mounted his drooper backyards
...just saying.
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Here's my line of thinking. Barrel droop is the difference between the bore alignment and receiver....scope rail. If you were to use a laser pointer off the top of the receiver and mark a spot (say 20-30 ft away) on a wall, and then you had a bore laser, the bore laser dot would hit lower than the receiver laser dot on the wall. The lower the bore laser dot hits the greater the barrel droop. This would be magnified when distance is increased. Barrel droop is not a issue with opened sights because the rear sight on most springers (like the Diana 350) is mounted on the barrel unit itself. In order for droop to come into play on a springer the rear sight would have to be mounted on the receiver tube. Which they are not. Likewise, if your scope mounted directly on your springers barrel then droop would not be a issue. So I'm thinking like Beeman22.
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The higher the rear site, the higher the impact. Use this to remember how to adjust. F.O.R.S.
Front site Opposite. (raise sight, lowers impact)
Rear sight Same (raise sight, raise impact)
Front site Opposite. (raise sight, lowers impact)
Rear sight Same (raise sight, raise impact)
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Agree with most posted above. Droop as a airgun phrase really applies to the situation where the barrel doesn't align with the receiver where the scope rail is mounted. Open sites usually sit on the barrel and rear block, not on the receiver. Still, I guess the barrel is "drooping" in relation to the entire rifle but functionally the open sites follow the barrel. The OP is apparently hitting very low at 10 yards with open sites according to his post. What would cause that, assuming power/velocity isn't horribly low? Either a very low rear site or a very high front site, or a combination of the two. The rear site looks to be stock, only raised with the added washers. But the front site arrangement appears unusual. Is it a stock front site for this rifle or added later? If added later, height could be a factor.
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The front sight is the original Diana sight, it looks odd because of the ugly electric tape I added.
Yes, 13 or 14 yards and no it doesn't go lower and lower. I know that because when I hit the 200 yards can it hits around it never drops drastically.
I think zeroing distance drop is when you have a scope and mount, then you have a couple of inches difference but in the case of open sight, the distance from the bore to the tip of the front sight is about an inch max.
The idea of all those washers is to make the spring tight. If I put the washers at the back only the screws get strained to an angel so washer on both sides to level the whole thing.
Filing the tip of the front sight is a good idea, better than these washers. I'm concerned that it would need to be filed down a lot to compensate though, you can see how high the washers push it and it's also unscrewed about 15 clicks.
ETA: I did disassemble and reassemble the front sight to make sure everything is tight and properly placed, including the insert.
Yes, 13 or 14 yards and no it doesn't go lower and lower. I know that because when I hit the 200 yards can it hits around it never drops drastically.
I think zeroing distance drop is when you have a scope and mount, then you have a couple of inches difference but in the case of open sight, the distance from the bore to the tip of the front sight is about an inch max.
The idea of all those washers is to make the spring tight. If I put the washers at the back only the screws get strained to an angel so washer on both sides to level the whole thing.
Filing the tip of the front sight is a good idea, better than these washers. I'm concerned that it would need to be filed down a lot to compensate though, you can see how high the washers push it and it's also unscrewed about 15 clicks.
ETA: I did disassemble and reassemble the front sight to make sure everything is tight and properly placed, including the insert.
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reminds of those little spare tires that are only to be used to get you to a place that can fix or sell you a proper tire.The front looks too mickey mouse,why is it soooo high?Take front sight off and try it ....the pellet may still be rising at the shorter distance,try it at 25-30 yards and see where the pellet lands,forget the washers,forget mickey mouse and start all over...use some lock tite...good luck.
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That's Diana's original front sight. I didn't change anything from the original.
As you can see the distance between the tip of the needle and the bore is not more than an inch so the bullet shouldn't land 5 or 4 inches below if I'm shooting too close.
If I remove the washers the spring gets too loose when it's almost fully open.
What do you all think of red dot sights? I just want to keep it light and simple, which is why I use the iron sights in the first place.
As you can see the distance between the tip of the needle and the bore is not more than an inch so the bullet shouldn't land 5 or 4 inches below if I'm shooting too close.
If I remove the washers the spring gets too loose when it's almost fully open.
What do you all think of red dot sights? I just want to keep it light and simple, which is why I use the iron sights in the first place.
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You seem to be missing the basic point. The washers, no matter what you intend to use them for, are raising the entire rear site, including the adjustable part. If you removed them and placed the rear site directly onto the barrel block then it would shoot extremely low. Good luck getting it sorted out.
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Exactly, if I remove the washers it shoots very low unless I crank it open loosely, which loosens the spring too much and risks losing the ball bearings and/or my elevation setting.
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Assumg it's a new gun id have the seller send a return shippers label to exchange it for another one.
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