Baker Airguns FULL REVIEW of the new flagship Hawke Frontier 34 FFP

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makes me wonder just how much more it would have taken to make it focus down to 10 yards instead of 15 yards ? maybe a matter of edge focus compromise just guessing here ?
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I'm not sure, but it's really marketed as a long range scope.

I don't think they considered making it focus to 10 yards.

Bummer because this thing SNAPS when ranging.

-Donnie


 
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Baker Airguns said:
I'm not sure, but it's really marketed as a long range scope.

I don't think they considered making it focus to 10 yards.

Bummer because this thing SNAPS when ranging.

-Donnie
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I am late to this conversation. But I also like parallax down to 10 yards. I get it that this is a long-range scope, but I too ask: What does it take to get parallax from 15 to 10 yards? S7
 
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douger said:
dont understand a scope to focas to 10 yards maybe a pistol if you see it at 10 yards throw a rock
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Because people often shoot at 10 yards (and closer!) on a regular basis indoors and often outdoors as well and if your scope won't focus, it is pretty much worthless at that range for precision shooting. I shoot my Prod from 20 ft to 50 yards and the scope I have on it will focus at the highest power setting at both extremes. In my newbie opinion, every scope that might be used by airgun or 22 LR competitors should focus to 10 yards. The march 8-80x does, so I am pretty sure all these other lower power ones could do so as well.
 
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Geezerhood said:
Because people often shoot at 10 yards (and closer!) on a regular basis indoors and often outdoors as well and if your scope won't focus, it is pretty much worthless at that range for precision shooting. I shoot my Prod from 20 ft to 50 yards and the scope I have on it will focus at the highest power setting at both extremes. In my newbie opinion, every scope that might be used by airgun or 22 LR competitors should focus to 10 yards. The march 8-80x does, so I am pretty sure all these other lower power ones could do so as well.
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I am with you, Geezerhood, and I am also a novice.
To me, if it is not in some way problematic, why not do it? More and more airgun owners are buying good scopes of all kinds. This should make companies take more notice. Here’s one for you: All the Element scopes have a ten-yard parallax but one—the Helix 4-16x44, and I own it. I wonder why Dubber and crew made this particular scope with a fifteen-yard parallax? I really am curious as to what drove this decision. Take care. S7
 
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First hand experience.
If you want/need a scope which will focus at 10 yards with equal performance capabilities of the Frontier in the Hawke portfolio grab the Sidewinder. I have one mounted on my HFT rig and it’s optics and performance are equal to that of the Frontier at least to my eyes. The Sidewinder has the same generous eye relief and the “no halo” eye box too.

I had the opportunity to spend some time talking with two of the Hawke reps, one at the Texas AirgunShow and the other at EBR and looking through the same Frontier model as above, other than the reticle, I could not discern any difference than what I see in looking through my Sidewinder. In speaking with them, what I championed for was a more dedicated HFT targeted scope with a greater parallax arc to enhance ranging although the Sidewinder does “snap in” on the 40-55 yard targets, it does take some practice.

I’ve shot dozens of FT matches (as well as XFT) and not once did I need to illuminate the reticle on my Sidewinder, even when I shot the XFT night match pre-EBR. I have turned it on to see what it looked like and it is one of the best I’ve encountered. Each two clicks of the power knob illuminates the reticle one step brighter with off power in between clicks.
If you just gotta have 10 yard minimum (or even if you don’t), Call Donnie, order up a Sidewinder, and save yourself some Benjamin’s.
 
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davecole said:
First hand experience.
If you want/need a scope which will focus at 10 yards with equal performance capabilities of the Frontier in the Hawke portfolio grab the Sidewinder. I have one mounted on my HFT rig and it’s optics and performance are equal to that of the Frontier at least to my eyes. The Sidewinder has the same generous eye relief and the “no halo” eye box too.

I had the opportunity to spend some time talking with two of the Hawke reps, one at the Texas AirgunShow and the other at EBR and looking through the same Frontier model as above, other than the reticle, I could not discern any difference than what I see in looking through my Sidewinder. In speaking with them, what I championed for was a more dedicated HFT targeted scope with a greater parallax arc to enhance ranging although the Sidewinder does “snap in” on the 40-55 yard targets, it does take some practice.

I’ve shot dozens of FT matches (as well as XFT) and not once did I need to illuminate the reticle on my Sidewinder, even when I shot the XFT night match pre-EBR. I have turned it on to see what it looked like and it is one of the best I’ve encountered. Each two clicks of the power knob illuminates the reticle one step brighter with off power in between clicks.
If you just gotta have 10 yard minimum (or even if you don’t), Call Donnie, order up a Sidewinder, and save yourself some Benjamin’s.
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DC,
In fact, I do have a new 6.5-20x44 Sidewinder. It is a relatively recent acquisition and presently not mounted on a rifle. I am somewhat glad and a tad disappointed that you say the Frontier is no better from what you have encountered. I'm glad because I have a Sidewinder, and a bit disappointed because the Sidewinder is nice and I thought the Frontier would be even better. What about those three extra lenses the Frontier has? What are they good for if the optics are the same? And why the price hike? My uses for guns and scopes are much simpler than yours, by the way (just saying).
Thanks for the information. S7
 
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Sanctify7 said:
DC,
In fact, I do have a new 6.5-20x44 Sidewinder. It is a relatively recent acquisition and presently not mounted on a rifle. I am somewhat glad and a tad disappointed that you say the Frontier is no better from what you have encountered. I'm glad because I have a Sidewinder, and a bit disappointed because the Sidewinder is nice and I thought the Frontier would be even better. What about those three extra lenses the Frontier has? What are they good for if the optics are the same? And why the price hike? My uses for guns and scopes are much simpler than yours, by the way (just saying).
Thanks for the information. S7
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There aren't three additional lenses but coatings. They will help with certain lighting situations you may or may not experience. Remember, the Frontier is marketed for long range shooting. Air gun long range and firearm long range is a huge difference.
As for the cost difference, I'm sure the manufacturing is more expensive but it's debatable how much more, if any, you would benefit from the additional cost.
I'm sure the scope you have will more than serve you well for years to come. And the money you saved you can now spend on ammo!
 
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davecole said:
There aren't three additional lenses but coatings. They will help with certain lighting situations you may or may not experience. Remember, the Frontier is marketed for long range shooting. Air gun long range and firearm long range is a huge difference.
As for the cost difference, I'm sure the manufacturing is more expensive but it's debatable how much more, if any, you would benefit from the additional cost.
I'm sure the scope you have will more than serve you well for years to come. And the money you saved you can now spend on ammo
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DC,
Are you sure the multicoatings are in view and not the lenses? That would be new information to me, but I don’t know that much, so I would not be too surprised.
Additional: If you are correct, don't think I am challenging that. I simply don't know enough. In fact, as I reread, it sounds like I was wrong. But I need to know definitively. Thanks. S7

Here's a recent correspondence between me and Hawke that I am repeating from another thread. I may shed some light on our conversation, but I am not sure. He seems to be implying that the Frontier does have more lenses than the Sidewinder, which still does not prove my point, however, as the number 21 and 18 could refer to coatings and the Frontier have one or two more lenses than the Sidewinder--or not!
First, my question, and then Hawke's response:

Question: "I and another guy on AirGun Nation are curious about how the light weight of the Frontier line is achieved. Typically, as scopes have more lenses and go up in quality, they seem to get heavier. Yes?
Is it different materials? Is anything sacrificed?"

Hawke Answer: "Unfortunately this isn't a simple answer, and of course our overall designs are proprietary. Yes, the lenses are the heaviest component in a scope, but no - adding lenses does not necessarily improve optical quality. At a minimum in fact, you will always loose a degree of light transmission with every added lens - everything is a compromise. That said, the Frontier line of scopes utilize a high grade, low-dispersion Crown glass and carefully paired lens coatings, helping us achieve efficient optical systems which perform well beyond their price."
 
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Sanctify7 said:
DC,
Are you sure the multicoatings are in view and not the lenses? That would be new information to me, but I don’t know that much, so I would not be too surprised.
Additional: If you are correct, don't think I am challenging that. I simply don't know enough. In fact, as I reread, it sounds like I was wrong. But I need to know definitively. Thanks. S7

Here's a recent correspondence between me and Hawke that I am repeating from another thread. I may shed some light on our conversation, but I am not sure. He seems to be implying that the Frontier does have more lenses than the Sidewinder, which still does not prove my point, however, as the number 21 and 18 could refer to coatings and the Frontier have one or two more lenses than the Sidewinder--or not!
First, my question, and then Hawke's response:

Question: "I and another guy on AirGun Nation are curious about how the light weight of the Frontier line is achieved. Typically, as scopes have more lenses and go up in quality, they seem to get heavier. Yes?
Is it different materials? Is anything sacrificed?"

Hawke Answer: "Unfortunately this isn't a simple answer, and of course our overall designs are proprietary. Yes, the lenses are the heaviest component in a scope, but no - adding lenses does not necessarily improve optical quality. At a minimum in fact, you will always loose a degree of light transmission with every added lens - everything is a compromise. That said, the Frontier line of scopes utilize a high grade, low-dispersion Crown glass and carefully paired lens coatings, helping us achieve efficient optical systems which perform well beyond their price."
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Hawke specs indicate there are additional coatings in the Frontier not found on the Sidewinder and, as they stated in their reply to your inquiry, additional lens does not necessarily improve clarity. With their designs being proprietary the only way to know if there are more lens in the Frontier than the Sidewinder is to take them apart.
I think the important question that stands out is, which is the best scope for the application?
For me, I can’t use the Frontier. I need a scope to focus down to 10 yard’s because I shoot HFT. And having used it in every shooting discipline I’m aware of, it checks all the boxes for me. I’ve not had to question any clarity.
A stand out moment was when I shot a night time XFT match at EBR this year. There were a few times the shooters I was squaded with were having difficulties finding a KZ on a shot up face plate with only a solar powered landscaping light illuminating it. I really didn’t have a problem as the Sidewinder demonstrated it could discern the edges of the KZ opening and the KZ itself.
The eye relief and eye box found on the new generation of Hawke scopes is second to none. When ranging targets in FT it snaps them in focus as good as any scope I’ve used prior to.
If your plans allow you to keep your targets beyond the 15 yard minimum then why not give a Frontier a try? But if a shooter requires a 10 yard minimum, they should consider a Sidewinder.
Best of luck and let us know if you decide on a Frontier.
 
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davecole said:
Hawke specs indicate there are additional coatings in the Frontier not found on the Sidewinder and, as they stated in their reply to your inquiry, additional lens does not necessarily improve clarity. With their designs being proprietary the only way to know if there are more lens in the Frontier than the Sidewinder is to take them apart.
I think the important question that stands out is, which is the best scope for the application?
For me, I can’t use the Frontier. I need a scope to focus down to 10 yard’s because I shoot HFT. And having used it in every shooting discipline I’m aware of, it checks all the boxes for me. I’ve not had to question any clarity.
A stand out moment was when I shot a night time XFT match at EBR this year. There were a few times the shooters I was squaded with were having difficulties finding a KZ on a shot up face plate with only a solar powered landscaping light illuminating it. I really didn’t have a problem as the Sidewinder demonstrated it could discern the edges of the KZ opening and the KZ itself.
The eye relief and eye box found on the new generation of Hawke scopes is second to none. When ranging targets in FT it snaps them in focus as good as any scope I’ve used prior to.
If your plans allow you to keep your targets beyond the 15 yard minimum then why not give a Frontier a try? But if a shooter requires a 10 yard minimum, they should consider a Sidewinder.
Best of luck and let us know if you decide on a Frontier.
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I copy, davercole, and thanks for the data. I am learning more and more about scopes, etc. I, like you, need that close-up parallax adjustment. Many of my shots are under ten yards, while some extend to thirty yards or a bit more. If a Frontier comes around at a strong price down the road, I may bite. If I do, I'll give you a holler. I have a Vantage on my .22 Marauder. If not for the weight increase--which is not too much, say, about six or seven ounces--I would swap out the Sidewinder for it.
S7
 
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