I have been buying and selling airguns for the past seven years and have never experienced scammers until recently. Even asking for multiple pictures and serial numbers do not seem to stop them. My understanding is that Paypal Protection may or may not protect airgun purchases. So I wonder if anyone has tried COD (collect on delivery) using the US Post Office. It appears to be only a $7.50 charge and should guarantee delivery. Anyone tried COD ?
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Avoiding Scammers
- Thread starter kpaoletti
- Start date
I've never tried COD with an airgun purchase. But other items that I've bought over the years were COD. Some sellers even offered their products COD. Trouble is you have to pay for the item before you can open the box and inspect the goods. Some devils have resorted to putting bricks in the box. By the time you discover the fraud, the delivery truck has already left and you're stuck with it.
I recently purchased an FX Boss from a member of the Airgun Warriors Classifieds. He advertised the gun and 3 tins of pellets and "4-5 magazines". I paid him with PayPal and received the gun in a couple days. All was well until I discovered that he sent only 2 magazines. I emailed him about it and he said he couldn't find the others and he promised to send them when he found them. I waited silently for a month before I emailed him again about it. He treated me as though I was asking for more than he promised. A day later he sent me one more magazine. I haven't heard a word from him since. What would I do in the case of buying the gun COD? Return it? Or accept it without the extra magazines?
You see....even COD is NOT the answer for protecting oneself against a scammer!!!
I recently purchased an FX Boss from a member of the Airgun Warriors Classifieds. He advertised the gun and 3 tins of pellets and "4-5 magazines". I paid him with PayPal and received the gun in a couple days. All was well until I discovered that he sent only 2 magazines. I emailed him about it and he said he couldn't find the others and he promised to send them when he found them. I waited silently for a month before I emailed him again about it. He treated me as though I was asking for more than he promised. A day later he sent me one more magazine. I haven't heard a word from him since. What would I do in the case of buying the gun COD? Return it? Or accept it without the extra magazines?
You see....even COD is NOT the answer for protecting oneself against a scammer!!!
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My experience trying to buy airguns has shown me that air gunners must be perceived as easy marks for scammers. I ran into one when looking for a 48/52, finally gave up on a used one and bought one new. When I was looking for a 300S I found two in one week.
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"My experience trying to buy airguns has shown me that air gunners must be perceived as easy marks for scammers."?
~~~~~~~~
For evidence of that, look no further than a couple of the major airgun vendors in this country , huh??
"$3 grand for a BB gun?"
"$13 for a fill port dust cover?"
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/parts/aoa-magnetic-dust-cover/
~~~~~~~~
For evidence of that, look no further than a couple of the major airgun vendors in this country , huh??
"$3 grand for a BB gun?"
"$13 for a fill port dust cover?"
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/parts/aoa-magnetic-dust-cover/
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I agree with you 100% I have A rifle up for sale right now and I have already received maybe 15 more emails from people trying to scam me Wanting to pay with a certified check and willing to pay more than what the offering Amount this is crazy I don’t understand how people can sleep at night when I do things like this It’s ridiculous.
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G
Guest
Guest
Hello-
I have bought, and sold, a dozen or more used airguns over the last decade. While I have never been scammed outright, there was one seller who failed to mention that neither of the cylinders he sold me with a pistol held air. The purchase price was good enough that I did not lose much, but I did learn from that experience.
What has worked for me when buying anything over $1000, Is using USPS money orders. Mind you, the maximum amount on a money order is $1000, so you may have to get more than one. USPS money orders have the added protection of the fact that, if the seller misrepresents the sale and steals your money, it becomes a crime the postal inspector can investigate. You will get your money back.
Paypal is easy, and someone here posted that Paypal actually helped with a problem involving an air gun, but I am leery of the service. Many buyers, and sellers, only want to use Paypal, though.
When considering a purchase I try to speak with the seller by phone. If they will not talk, no deal. You can also run a web search on the person or their address, to determine whether or not either exist. I often back search email addresses as well, to see if they pop up anywhere else- a red flag would be an email that shows up no where- probably just created.
Also, I run searches on all the photos they post of the item, through Google, to make sure the photos were not stolen from another forum overseas.
People who post a great deal on airgun forums are more likely to be real. However, some of my best deals have been obtained from taking a risk on a new forum member.
I accepted a bank draft/certified check on one occasion, for the sale of a centerfire pistol. Once received I called the actual bank and confirmed that the draft was legitimate, before shipping the pistol. (The bank then called the purchaser and told him I had called. He was so pissed off he gave me negative feedback on the forum. Since then, no bank drafts.)
At the end of the day, unless you are using a USPS money order to make your purchase you are taking a chance, and should assume the money is gone. When the item you ordered arrives as described, you can be pleasantly surprised and have a little more faith and trust in your fellow man.
Kind regards,
641
I have bought, and sold, a dozen or more used airguns over the last decade. While I have never been scammed outright, there was one seller who failed to mention that neither of the cylinders he sold me with a pistol held air. The purchase price was good enough that I did not lose much, but I did learn from that experience.
What has worked for me when buying anything over $1000, Is using USPS money orders. Mind you, the maximum amount on a money order is $1000, so you may have to get more than one. USPS money orders have the added protection of the fact that, if the seller misrepresents the sale and steals your money, it becomes a crime the postal inspector can investigate. You will get your money back.
Paypal is easy, and someone here posted that Paypal actually helped with a problem involving an air gun, but I am leery of the service. Many buyers, and sellers, only want to use Paypal, though.
When considering a purchase I try to speak with the seller by phone. If they will not talk, no deal. You can also run a web search on the person or their address, to determine whether or not either exist. I often back search email addresses as well, to see if they pop up anywhere else- a red flag would be an email that shows up no where- probably just created.
Also, I run searches on all the photos they post of the item, through Google, to make sure the photos were not stolen from another forum overseas.
People who post a great deal on airgun forums are more likely to be real. However, some of my best deals have been obtained from taking a risk on a new forum member.
I accepted a bank draft/certified check on one occasion, for the sale of a centerfire pistol. Once received I called the actual bank and confirmed that the draft was legitimate, before shipping the pistol. (The bank then called the purchaser and told him I had called. He was so pissed off he gave me negative feedback on the forum. Since then, no bank drafts.)
At the end of the day, unless you are using a USPS money order to make your purchase you are taking a chance, and should assume the money is gone. When the item you ordered arrives as described, you can be pleasantly surprised and have a little more faith and trust in your fellow man.
Kind regards,
641
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Me personally I have been extremely lucky . But I basically refuse to buy or sell from Anyone unless they are willing to talk on the phone ...It's VERY hard for a non Airgun guy to " bluff " his way thru any length conversation.
But a gun being not as described is Seriously an impossible thing to avoid I think . I ask for pics and Google search them to see if they are used in Gunmart or Gunlist ads ( most scam photos are copied from there I've seen )
I think a lot of guys who take advantage of others in the sport rely on the fact we are normally all separated by long distances . I know of several folks who have really went WAY overboard on treating folks like crap and downright screwing them over . But you never know who you may be fooling with and what amount of money it takes to set a guy off on a " Road Trip ". Lol
But a gun being not as described is Seriously an impossible thing to avoid I think . I ask for pics and Google search them to see if they are used in Gunmart or Gunlist ads ( most scam photos are copied from there I've seen )
I think a lot of guys who take advantage of others in the sport rely on the fact we are normally all separated by long distances . I know of several folks who have really went WAY overboard on treating folks like crap and downright screwing them over . But you never know who you may be fooling with and what amount of money it takes to set a guy off on a " Road Trip ". Lol
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I have also bought and sold a few airguns in the past few years (so far, so good). Always checking the feedback and looking for regulars on the forum. Not regular, not buying. Yes we are separated by miles JWR, but we are a small community, a community in which there are enough good guys on the forum to know and understand how this all works.
I for one believe in this community and refuse to go out of bounds to save a few bucks with someone that I am unfamiliar with.
I for one believe in this community and refuse to go out of bounds to save a few bucks with someone that I am unfamiliar with.
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An official check (aka certified check), is as good as a money order. The bank takes the money out of your account and gives a check drawn against their account. The funds are guaranteed. Of course, one has to ensure the check was issued by an honest bank.
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Back in the late 80's I had a side business and we sold a lot of product COD certified or cash. You wouldn't believe the ways that can be scammed. I got quite an education. The COD cash worked OK except that UPS at the time would sit on the funds for 30 days. Something about protecting themselves from counterfeit cash. I've come to believe that any method of payment can be scammed in one way or the other. I've been told, that's a felony. Scammers don't care. Your best line of defense in my opinion is to do your homework. Talk to them. Get references. Personally any gun I want to sell gets traded in. It costs me 15%, but I'm ok with that. The other thing thats become obvious is don't expect any help from the authorities. Even if the case is all laid out for them and you point out the scammer is RIGHT THERE, go arrest them. They don't care or are to busy. And even if the scammer is arrested and ends up in the legal system it won't get you your gun or money back. It's a sad situation. The only positive thing about scammers is the entertainment I get from seeing how long I can string them along. sylvan
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Sylavn, you are right in getting entertainment by stringing them along. I once sold a gun and waited for the payment. It came by special delivery which cost the scammer extra money and also came with a business check for $2000 more than the selling price. Of course I was supposed to deposit the check and wire them the difference by Western Union. I strung them along for several days by first saying the check had not arrived and then by telling them I was waiting for the bank to clear the funds.
This only works when selling a gun. When buying a gun the situation is different. Asking for additional information and trying to talk with them directly is helpful. I recently had one scammer who would not accept a personal pickup with a cash payment and another scammer who would not give their address because it would endanger their family..
The real problem with the current situation is that you no longer have the enjoyment of buying and selling with other airgunners. I guess the enjoyment now will be to string the scammer along.
This only works when selling a gun. When buying a gun the situation is different. Asking for additional information and trying to talk with them directly is helpful. I recently had one scammer who would not accept a personal pickup with a cash payment and another scammer who would not give their address because it would endanger their family..
The real problem with the current situation is that you no longer have the enjoyment of buying and selling with other airgunners. I guess the enjoyment now will be to string the scammer along.
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Certified checks are easily forged, my wife works in banking and sees fake "certified" checks on a regular basis. My advise for anyone that takes one is to wait for it to clear before sending the sold item. The Post office can tell you if a postal money order is real or not.
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You are absolutely right. I have had bad "certified checks" and bad Postal Money Orders. My Post Office will check the money orders for you while you wait. I guess the next thing will be counterfeit money.
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People are the worst. I've been scammed a few times through forum marketplaces too and it makes it hard to want to trade. I prefer face to face transfers but that is not always a viable option. It is the best teacher though... I don't know how scammers sleep at night knowing they scummed people of their money. Doing it in a virtual marketplace only gives the scammer an advantage. The worst part is ruining the experience for people and possibly breeding new scammers.
I've learned to always check reputation and history. I also check for their join date or if they have history on any other forums. Reverse searching the images is a good technique that I'll have to pick up. Every trading forum should have some kind of "best safety practices when trading" sticky topic.
I've learned to always check reputation and history. I also check for their join date or if they have history on any other forums. Reverse searching the images is a good technique that I'll have to pick up. Every trading forum should have some kind of "best safety practices when trading" sticky topic.
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After I feel the person is legit and a standing member of the forum I’ll only take a certified bank check and when it arrives I take it to my bank and if it clears and cash is in hand I’ll send out the item via UPS insured and signature required depending on value of item, under a grand I’ll except a USPS money order and do the same. If I’m buying from a individual I’ll send certified bank or USPS money order with signature required and so far I have never had a issue. I don’t mind calling the buyer or seller either.
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Tracking number and insured package is always a good indicator the seller is legit. Made a couple purchases earlier today where the sellers only took PayPal so I'm hoping those go well since payment already went through
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