Tuning Avenger regulator - was newbie questions - now not so newbie questions

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my87csx481

my87csx481

Member
Jun 6, 2019
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Fort Fairfield, ME, United States
I recently got an Avenger wood stock in .22. It's my first PCP. I had to start somewhere. I've put about 250 pellets through it.

Let's say my reg set point is 1800 psi. After I take a shot, the reg gauge drops to anywhere between 1400 and 1600 psi. It takes about 10 to 40 seconds for the gauge to show 1800 psi again. Is this recovery time to be expected on a brand new reg/rifle? Does this recovery time get shorter as things "wear in"? Or is something wrong?

I did find some info on reg creep, but most of that info had to do with reg creep over hours, or over night, or over days....not over 30 seconds. Mine does not creep over night, after it has recovered from the last shot....not yet anyway.

Thanks for any help.
 
Recovery time is closely related to pressure creep. If the regulator's valve seat has either poor surface quality or if the seat material is somewhat soft (or both), symptoms of both slow recovery and creep will tend to emerge.

But yes you're right, generally a regulator's behavior will improve after some break-in, and then work well for a long time before the seat wears enough to need servicing. This servicing may consist of either replacing the soft side of the valve seat (usually a plastic like Delrin) or simply dressing the surfaces smooth and flat with something like fine wet/dry sandpaper.

However sometimes it won't improve satisfactorily and you'll have to go ahead and service it. That is especially true if surface defects are present on the hard side of the valve seat. Provided the soft side is in fair shape, it will usually "iron in" to conform to the other side of the valve seat after being cycled some number of times. Just be aware that how many times is necessary can't really be reliably measured by the number of shots you've put through it. That's because the ironing in is beholden to the regulator building enough pressure to completely top out...meaning the valve seat has had sufficient time to fully squish together, so to speak.

Having said all that, B is right when he says you really need to look at it over the chronograph to know if it's affecting your velocities in any meaningful way.  Provided you have the hammer spring tension adjusted to about 95 - 97% of peak velocity, your speeds will not be influenced much by slight variations in pressure.

Or if you are getting good groups, just trust the results.
 
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Thanks nervoustrig. I understand. I've read through several threads (you had responses in them too, on here, and on GTA). I understand all that you posted above. I am trying to find the pressure needed to push 18.13's at 890ish (and when hammer spring increases no longer increasing velocity)....so I can tune it back to 870ish with a hammer spring tension reduction. 

I found a reg teardown thread on GTA (for the Avenger). I am kind of fishing to see if I should take it apart, polish the seat surfaces, or just keep shooting it for now.

Thanks B.
 
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B

Perfect gun for new PCP owner, good choice. Are you sure about this? I'm new to PCPs and new to forum, but even I know that Air Venturi is struggling with poppet problems in Avengers. I've been watching AGN for several months now and I've known you to be one of the "good" guys, very helpful and accurate. I even hate to say anything now, but as a trusted member, your words carry weight with us newbies. Thanks and hope I didn't offend, just wanted to share my thoughts.
 
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B

Perfect gun for new PCP owner, good choice. Are you sure about this? I'm new to PCPs and new to forum, but even I know that Air Venturi is struggling with poppet problems in Avengers. I've been watching AGN for several months now and I've known you to be one of the "good" guys, very helpful and accurate. I even hate to say anything now, but as a trusted member, your words carry weight with us newbies. Thanks and hope I didn't offend, just wanted to share my thoughts.
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Hey man I'm not offended by any means

My advice for all new PCP owners is always to start with something simple and not with the gun like Impact or Maverick (I own both of them) they are too complicated for new guys, going with Impact or Maverick for a new gun it's like putting a guy who just got his driver licence into F-1 car 😂😂😂

You will never have one gun, I'm not saying to go cheap (I hate cheap stuff) but go simple first, to learn what is all about, why you think we got so many posts about broken or leaking FX guns? They not perfect, but most of the negative posts you see are from inexperienced owners who got no idea what they doing.

B
 
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B

Got it. Start simple, work up is the kind of solid advice I've seen you pass on. BnHappy and Ripper are tearing into Air Venturi a few threads away for not only the Avenger but company goings on. The OP is aware of that thread, as well. What I've seen you write, including last post, is clear, easy to follow and makes sense. I'm glad you're on AGN, just remember us new guys are counting on you, and other long-timers, to share the good, the bad and the ugly. Thanks

WM




 
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B

Got it. Start simple, work up is the kind of solid advice I've seen you pass on. BnHappy and Ripper are tearing into Air Venturi a few threads away for not only the Avenger but company goings on. The OP is aware of that thread, as well. What I've seen you write, including last post, is clear, easy to follow and makes sense. I'm glad you're on AGN, just remember us new guys are counting on you, and other long-timers, to share the good, the bad and the ugly. Thanks

WM



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I was just telling the truth and my experience with the company.I said that the valve poppets Were supposed to be upgraded. And even said that I would buy one once I find out that they are upgraded for sure and people aren’t having those problems anymore. I told him to try to Fill to 3500 psi and see if it holds overnight. He was worried about it coming with only 1200 psi in it. I told him that it was possible that it could’ve left their company like that. Got to realize that they are Chinese made guns and they are what they are. I have a couple Chinese made guns that are actually pretty good shooting guns with no problems. They are getting better at making them.It’s a lot of bang for the buck but still people want them to work properly and not Leak . And hopefully it is all straightened out now.
 
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Ripper

Don't know much about your postings, as don't recall as well as others. It was clear, however, in the other thread, that you were telling the truth and were trying to help a fellow member. We can only hope your truth and that of BnHappy will catch the attention of Air Venturi and make them change their ways. I, too, have a Chinese made gun and have many trouble-free hours with it. Feel bad for those who start their PCP experience with a moderately priced gun that lets them down. Best to you and yours,

WM


 
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Curiosity was killing me. I took the regulator out. Please refer to image. In the very center of the raised circle, is a bit of a nipple (it's hard to see, but it is whiter than the rest of the delrin, in the image). But the entire raised circle I believe conforms to the seat. The seat looks like a pin with a hole in the middle, making the pipe like impression seen on the seal (flat surface ring that has an ID and an OD).

Will polishing this seal gain me anything? I feel like if I flatten this out, the seat will just make a new impression in the seal....but I am ignorant in all this.

And what about the mold flashing showing on the OD of the o-ring? That can't be good.

Also, the holes (one shown at the bottom of the image, I assume for some special spanner tool) are very small. How to unscrew the reg without damaging anything (where to get tool, or how to make)?

regulator.1621610023.jpg

 
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Oh yeah, there’s the problem. That piece needs to be dressed or replaced.

The color implies it’s acetal or Delrin so I don’t know why it would be so imprinted this early on. Any chance you’ve adjusted the regulator downward while it was pressurized? If so, that will do it.

And yes I would replace the O-ring and check the mating surface down in the regulator body for a sharp edge.

A spanner wrench is the name of the tool for grabbing the two holes. I have a set of jeweler’s pliers with some small slender needle nose pliers that also work in a lot of cases. Or you can make a tool from a small piece of wood and a couple of nails. Drill for the nails at the appropriate spacing and bed them in, then drill out a clearance hole in the middle to clear the brass regulator spool.
 
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That’s a pretty good picture for the circumstances. I think I’m seeing a bit of a raised burr around the orifice at the 7 to 8 o’clock position. If so, better smooth that down flat.

Also, the edge the O-ring slips by looks like it could use a little attention. Just enough that it doesn’t snag the O-ring during reassembly. A little silicone grease on both will help minimize the chance of damage. Automotive dielectric grease is the same thing if you don’t have something suitable on hand. 
 
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You probably should have left your gun alone for a bit. 250 shots is not enough to judge things unless you are experiencing massive reg creep. Now you have chewed up orings to deal with. That seat can still seal just fine the way it is but holy smokes, that’s a pretty deep impression for a new gun. Especially if you’re only set at 1,800psi. Looks to me like either that seat is just plain soft or someone turned the reg down under pressure. If not you, probably a hamfist at the factory. We can’t kid ourselves into believing that once the gun is assembled and shows 2,500psi on the reg, that the assembly line worker degasses the gun to turn it down. They’re pumping these guns out like madmen. No time for that. Some of the Avenger reg problems are probably self induced by the workers in their factory. Now that it’s apart, if you want to speed up your recovery time, there are a couple things you can do if you’re capable. Surface the outer edges of your washers with 1,000-2,000 grit depending how bad they look. Then polish your spool. I hope you remember the sequence of your washers.
 
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