Avenger regulator not regulating

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samn82

Member
Jul 31, 2020
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PA, United States
Hi everyone, 

I've done a lot of reading here in the past and this is my first time posting. Thanks to all the members for all the great information in the posts here, I greatly appreciate it.

I received my Avenger .25 about a week ago and used a scuba tank to fill it as I didn't yet have a pump or a 4500psi tank. My tank was at 2700psi so I didn't mess with the regulator, I just shot it at that pressure and accuracy and everything else was good. 

2 Days ago I received a Yong Heng compressor and filled the gun up to about 4300psi and I saw that the reg gauge was showing the same pressure as the fill gauge.

I let the air out right away via the allen screw, turned the regulator all the way in and then back 1/4 turn and then filled again from my scuba tank. The gauges both showed the same so I'm pretty sure at this point the reg is bad.

I figured it might be a bad O-ring so I removed the regulator and this is what I see:

1596201552_14496043405f241a50c48457.05499548.jpg


I'm assuming that this is the seat of the reg and that's why it is not regulating? I'm definitely no expert and this is my first regulated gun so I'm hoping someone here might know.

I know I could probably send it back to Pyramid Air but then I'll be waiting over a month for a replacement. Hopefully I can get a part to replace the seat or get a replacement reg somehow to fix this problem.

I did inspect the O-rings and they all look OK. 

Also if anyone wants pictures of the inside of the reg I could take some and post them up.

Thanks In advance for any assistance.

Sam








 
Correct, that is the valve seat and that is most likely the culprit. It looks imprinted in the center from where it was pressing against the orifice. You'll usually see that in cases where the seat has worn from being cycled thousands of times...in other words it shouldn't look like that brand new. However if this is an externally adjustable regulator, it can also be caused by adjusting the setpoint downward while it is under pressure (meaning one mistake and it's toast).

It also appears that the entire disc is pushed in below flush and that may be a bigger indicator of why it's being bypassed. Usually the raised orifice on the other side is only 0.020" - 0.030" tall. It may be that the plastic seat material is set back so far that the orifice can't reach it before the piston rim bottoms out.

The decision to make is whether to send it back or repair it yourself. If you want to fix it, there are a few options:

1. Resurface it (flatten it with a lathe / drill press / etc. followed by wet sanding down to 1500 - 2000 grit or so against a piece of glass or granite). I'm not totally sure this is an option though...I'm seeing an hourglass-shaped artifact at the 6 o'clock position and I can't tell if it's a crater or just a reflection from a light source. If the damage is deep, probably best to skip this idea.
2. Replace the seat with a new piece of Delrin, PET-P, or PEEK
3. If you can push out the original from behind without damaging it, you can flip it over to a fresh surface. Use a flattened and polished end of a drill bit or similar rod to minimize the risk of damage. If it does get slightly scarred, do the wet sanding step described in #1.

Good luck!

 
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Nervoustrig,

Thank you! This is very helpful information. 

The only adjustment that I made was with the gun completely empty so unless it was adjusted at the factory I don't think that was the cause in this case.

The hourglass shape is indeed a deep indent. It almost looks like the air pressure blew out a channel but I guess it could of also been caused during installation. I think my only option to repair myself would be to try to flip the seat or make a new one.

Now I have to decide if I'm going to send it back or try to repair myself. I may keep it until the supply stabilizes and then send it in. If I fill only to 2700 it shoots great, I just have to refill more often. In the meantime I may attempt a repair. I'll update if I do and if it was successful or not.

Sam






 
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My thinking is if you decide to hang onto it and just keep the fill to 2700psi or so, might as well try flipping the seat over. Nothing to lose and you already have it disassembled.

I would drop in a little shim to bring it out flush to the end of the piston (cut from a soda can, plastic bottle, etc.). For the seat itself, if it's fairly thick, go ahead and press it back in with the fresh side exposed. However if it's thin, I would mix a bit of 2-part epoxy and fill the void on the other side and level it off before pressing the part in. In other words if it's fairly thin disc, you don't want any voids behind it because it could deform easily when it meets the raised orifice each time it cycles open and close.
 
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Did you turn the reg while its under pressure. Seem like someone fk it up by turn it in while its under pressure. It will mess up the reg for sure. Always remove the air before turning the reg. Its easy fix though. Flip the white plastic over. The other side should be nice and clean. That side will then seal the air from passing into the valve.
 
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It's definitely a quality control issue by the looks of it. China has always had a very poor quality control. I have too many but they're a lot of fun to tinker with. ATI had some great deals on the parts guns made by Nova Vista and I got a few of them for $100 each. My wood stocked Liberty is my favorite, since I installed a PEEK poppet the gun is a fantastic shooter.
 
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No, I didn't even touch the reg until after I filled it to 4300 and both gauges were showing the same pressure. I then released all the air and turned it down with the same result.

If it was damaged by being adjusted under pressure it was done at the factory maybe.

Click to expand...

Did you DRY FIRE the gun to degass the reg after releasing all of the air pressure from the tube before touching reg adjustment?
 
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I did dry fire it after I let the air out with the screw but there was no air in the reg only a click of the hammer so I'm pretty sure it was leaking from the start.

I'm going to try flipping the seat, I just need to find something thin and rigid enough to push it out from the back. I tried a 1/16th drill bit but its just slightly to big to fit through the hole.


 
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I first saw your topic and was reading it on my phone while in the back seat of a truck. Today I was able to look at the first pic you posted of your regs spool on my iPad. Yes your seat is destroyed. Flip it if you can. Don’t rush, don’t damage the other side of it pushing it out. You only have one and you can’t pick up the phone and order another one. If you must use something metal to push it out, put something between the punch or bit to protect the seat.
 
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UPDATE:

I finally had some time to work on this problem and was able to repair the regulator.

On this gun it is not possible to push the seat out from the back. I don't think there is a hole that goes all the way through the stem. I think its just a machined "cup" that the seat is pressed into.

I ended up sanding down the entire end of the stem both seat and surrounding brass until the defect was removed. I then wet sanded with 1200 grit and now everything is working as it should.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice and suggestions.

Sam




 
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I recently tried out three Avenger .22s and all three had regulator creep. All three were the new baffle models with a creep rate of 200 PSI in seven minutes plus an over night creep of 600 to 800 PSI. The rate of creep in all three Avengers was exactly the same which indicates a manufacturers defect. My begging of Pyramyd Air to send a non-creeper fell on deaf ears due mainly to their robotic customer service system. The ten for ten purchase is a joke which includes pumping up the air rifle and shooting it ten times and sticking back a box for shipment. Don't think regulator creep diagnoses is on their agenda. Good luck on getting that problem addressed. My request was simple. Please don't send another creeper. Somehow without my understanding as to why, my last creeper was channeled over to Air Venturi for an evaluation. My hope was they were going to find me a new non-creeper. Wrong! My creeper was evaluated by pumping it up, looking at the tank pressure and doing a shot string. What does that have to do with regulator creep. The verdict of Air Venturi, " nothing wrong with your air rifle". The Air Vernturi procedure was identical to the joke Pyramyd Air calls ten for ten. Presently, I am seeking a refund but feel that will be ignored even though the Avenger creeper is within the 60 day return policy. 

My research and investigation has revealed a possible explanation for ignoring the Avenger creepers. First, it is possible the creepers are a manufacturers defect of unknown quantities. The Avenger had a poppet problem that took over a year to solve. This may be the case for the creepers with the current Avenger inventory plus the cargo boats waiting at the dock to be unloaded from China. If my speculation is correct on the problem being wide spread, Pyramyd Air and Air Venturi are sitting on a possible loss of revenue if a regulator defect becomes common knowledge. .This is why I think Avenger regulator issues are ignored. Another issue that has compounded the problem is the lack of spare parts from China. Replacement regulators may not be available.

Please don't take my word for this information. Do your own investigation. Buy the Avenger if that is your preference. Above is my speculation based on experience and research however flawed that may be. This is an issue that air rifle consumers should at least have an awareness. One bit of advice I will give, if you have the 60 day exchange and return policy for the Avenger from Pyramyd Air, examine your air rifle ASAP and take advantage of the warranty. Don't send it to Air Venturi during those 60 days, you will regret it.
 
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