ATN X-Sight 5: Why Has Thou Forsaken Me?

[N2 Shooter]

If you purchase ATN X-SIGHT 5, you have a nickname that you may not be aware of.

Beta Tester.

But after spending (wasting) a considerable amount of my Saturday afternoon, I think a more appropriate term would be Alpha Tester, or dare I say sucker.

Please don't take what I'm about to say as arrogance, but I do product development for a living, as a Sr. Software Engineer and Product Owner. If I let a product go to production in this state, I'm certain, I'd be looking for a new job by lunchtime.

Listen to the long list of problems:

• RAV Calibration doesn't work in most cases. I was literally banging on the butt of my rifle until my hand hurt to try and get a reading to register. After several reboot sequences and lock ups, I got one reading to register once, but not enough to get RAV to calibrate.
• RAV doesn't work either. This isn't new to ATN, they didn't even use their own scopes to generate the 240p fps marketing videos, as the video is not from the perspective of the shooter. I guess they think we are just stupid for them to even try that one.
• Audio doesn't consistently record in all video resolutions. Only a few seconds of audio is recorded in all modes except for the mid quality 60p mode. This is a rookie mistake, and probably turning off power to the mic pre-amps and they are being powered by the filter capacitors for a few seconds.
• Video quality is okay, but just okay, not great. This is because they will record video in 4K resolution, but the sensor is only slightly bigger than 4K, which means that they are doing lossy interpolation, and making pixels up based on a nearest neighbor average or some similar filtering algorithm. But if you switch the video resolution to 1920ish, you still have soft quality because now they do line skipping of the sensor instead of down sampling. Ideally, to do digital zoom, like most all digital scopes that do not use a variable optical zoom system, the sensor needs to be a higher resolution than the delivered video at max magnification. This ain't that, not even close. They would need a 40MP sensor to do 4x base magnification and still ship 4K that is real detail.
• The number one rule of product development is be careful what features you support, because you will have to include them for eternity. ATN must didn't get the memo, because you can no longer play back video or review photos in their new flagship
• The headlining feature of generate your own reticle is nice. It would be nicer if imported reticles persisted after a power cycle.
• Just to show how bad this firmware is, we are once again given a product that can't keep time. I had a Sony Walkman that managed to keep time even after Y2K, so ATN, whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong.
• Overall lack of effort. Icons are present the first time you enter a menu, but the second time, the icon is missing, or even worse stacked on top of another icon. I was at the range for 3 hours and was forced to do a hard reboot 3 times, so I guess they have some consistency in some ways.
• ATN Connect 5 app is suppose to be a major upgrade. Too bad the app isn't even available in the Google Play Store. How could you mess up this release?
• Sold me an SD- Card that goes with a scope billed (as another headline feature) that it records 4K video, but the SD-Card isn't rated to record 4K video. That's petty. You'd be better off not even offering cards at all than cards that will cause recording to fail. Are you purposely trying to generate support calls? If so, congratulations , you finally succeeded in a release goal!

My comments may seem like I hate ATN, and that could not be further from the truth!

They did a significant size and weight savings compared to the X-SIGHT 4K Pro with ABL. The numbers on paper are minor, but very significant when you swap from one scope to another.

ATN, why has thou forsaken me?

I have supported you, promoted you, hell, I've even been an evangelist for you! You have the best feature set of every digital scope around, but once again, you failed your customer commitment to delivering a quality product. A product I personally paid over $1300 for. Your biggest complaint with the X-SIGHT 4K Pro line was poor quality firmware, and instead of rectifying that issue, you exceeded the poor quality of your efforts past.

I don't work for free. I mean, who can afford to do that? But I feel like I just did unpaid work as an ATN Quality Control technician. ATN, I have some straight up advise for you:

Fire whoever green lit this release on both the engineering side and the business side. You would have been much better served to ship a quarter late than release trash to the market. You only get one chance to show this would be so much better than the X-SIGHT 4K, and you just blew it. Guess what else, the market isn't standing still. PARD, Sightmark and others are releasing solutions with integrated Ballistic Calculators, which is the reason I was attached to you in the first place.

It's best you release firmware to address these issues with all deliberate speed, or when the word gets out how ATN messed up yet again, I don't think the market will be so kind when other products are delivering when you can't.

 

[FLgunner]

Did you load any reticles produced by the reticle editor? If so, did you shoot using thst reticle, or try and zero using one of the imported reticles? I did. It was shooting 3" to the right and 2" down from where it was zeroed with the OEM reticle. I tried to zero it and found out why, the white crosshairs were not even close to being aligned with the reticle! Yep, it was off by approximately how much my POI was off! So, that reticle creator is useless if it can't produce a reticle that aligns with where it's supposed to be! Just to add one more to your list...

 

[qball]

Thanks to both of you for saving me over $1000, I was very tempted to get one. I had similar issue with the Pro 4K, after over a year of ownership they finally had a firmware that’s usable most of the time. Hard to believe they exceed how bad the old firmware was, they are in Silicon Valley but guess they hired the worst firmware engineer left unhired.

For now I’m fairly happy with my ATN LTV, it has almost no features so less to F&$@ up!

 

[FLgunner]

Yea, the launch of the 4K Pro was just about as much of a cluster truck as this launch! You’d a thunk they’d of learned a lesson, but apparently not!

Of course, on the flip side, you’d a thunk we’d of learned a lesson as well! Oh well, after 2 failed launches, I won’t be jumping on the Gen 6 Bandwagon!

 

[brawler1588]

I agree completely and I think mine is going back my dilemma is do I just get a refund and wait until issues are sorted or stick it out and hope they send me one that works. I have the 3-14 but anything past 50y will not get crisp or clear. The same audio issues no sound, also lag in the buttons, ir light doesn't work, also find the scope gets much warmer than the 4k and the battery is draining much faster. Another big issue with me is the buttons are to level with each other and very very hard to determine what's what in the dark even worse now that the zoom is buttons. I personally liked the wheel made it fast for adjustment.

 

[FLgunner]

ATN has agreed to send me one more, if it has issues, it will go back for a refund. At that point, I'll wait until they are selling the refurbs for a couple hundred dollars less and get one of those. The 5-20X 4K Pro I have is a refurb and it's never given me any problems! Refurbs may be the best way to buy anything from ATN, at least those are gone over to ensure they work before they get shipped! I'm beginning to think the new ones get no functional testing at all before they ship them...

 

[Pfddi]

The glitches in the software are such that it is amazing that the code was let out! Like @N2 Shooter I am an old (not meaning you are) software/hardware engineer that would have been summarily canned for letting this product out. It has locked up on me enough times that I'm lucky plugging the power in has brough it back for use - with the usual reset to factory after that and start over (like a reset button (or manual watchdog) on the outside to kill the operation and start it over!). I think they could shore up many of the problems with a firmware update but none have be coming. Setting up the initial purchasers as the beta testers without saying has always been a recipe for disaster! I love the form factor over the 4th Gen but it's no fun in using. The ABL is slower than the old separate one you could add on to the 4k Pro. I will give it a while longer to see if they do some updating, but I am seriously looking at other scopes to replace this one. Kinda wish I had my 4k back. It was reliable for what it did.

 

[N2 Shooter]

Did you load any reticles produced by the reticle editor? If so, did you shoot using thst reticle, or try and zero using one of the imported reticles? I did. It was shooting 3" to the right and 2" down from where it was zeroed with the OEM reticle. I tried to zero it and found out why, the white crosshairs were not even close to being aligned with the reticle! Yep, it was off by approximately how much my POI was off! So, that reticle creator is useless if it can't produce a reticle that aligns with where it's supposed to be! Just to add one more to your list...

I zero'd with a factory rectile, and swapped with a reticle created with the recticle editor, and it retained zero. However, I am not entirely convinced that the zero held as I switched resolutions, even with the factory reticles.

 

[N2 Shooter]

Did you load any reticles produced by the reticle editor? If so, did you shoot using thst reticle, or try and zero using one of the imported reticles? I did. It was shooting 3" to the right and 2" down from where it was zeroed with the OEM reticle. I tried to zero it and found out why, the white crosshairs were not even close to being aligned with the reticle! Yep, it was off by approximately how much my POI was off! So, that reticle creator is useless if it can't produce a reticle that aligns with where it's supposed to be! Just to add one more to your list...

Here is with a custom reticle holding zero.

 

[N2 Shooter]

4K video makes text readable on target.

 

[N2 Shooter]

The glitches in the software are such that it is amazing that the code was let out! Like @N2 Shooter I am an old (not meaning you are) software/hardware engineer that would have been summarily canned for letting this product out. It has locked up on me enough times that I'm lucky plugging the power in has brough it back for use - with the usual reset to factory after that and start over (like a reset button (or manual watchdog) on the outside to kill the operation and start it over!). I think they could shore up many of the problems with a firmware update but none have be coming. Setting up the initial purchasers as the beta testers without saying has always been a recipe for disaster! I love the form factor over the 4th Gen but it's no fun in using. The ABL is slower than the old separate one you could add on to the 4k Pro. I will give it a while longer to see if they do some updating, but I am seriously looking at other scopes to replace this one. Kinda wish I had my 4k back. It was reliable for what it did.

I know right? Using a watchdog will address many issues. But it seems like they aren't even using an RTOS for the system. How is it so hard to keep state in such a simple system? Use the state pattern, and that will handle so many cases. If I didn't have to possibly return this, I'd pop it open and look for a JTAG port, and try and decompile the binary. I bet $100 bucks the bootloader isn't secure!

 

[N2 Shooter]

I spoke (a website chat) with ATN today and discussed my problems. I was informed that they are aware of the issues, and that a firmware update is being worked on. I asked for an ETA for the update, and all I got was, 'I do not have an exact timeline but it should be soon.'

I will try and use the scope in the state that it's in. I have the Drops and Spills warranty, so I'm not bound as much by return windows.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I spoke (a website chat) with ATN today and discussed my problems. I was informed that they are aware of the issues, and that a firmware update is being worked on. I asked for an ETA for the update, and all I got was, 'I do not have an exact timeline but it should be soon.'

I will try and use the scope in the state that it's in. I have the Drops and Spills warranty, so I'm not bound as much by return windows.

@N2 Shooter I would think that they would treat you as an influencer considering your well put together videos utilizing their products. I hope you can get that sorted. Or it just may be time to step over to the Pard side.

 

[N2 Shooter]

@N2 Shooter I would think that they would treat you as an influencer considering your well put together videos utilizing their products. I hope you can get that sorted. Or it just may be time to step over to the Pard side.

I love hunting and airguns, but there are only a handful of the 'influencers' that call it like it is, and my morality and ethics have been to call a spade a spade. I don't think manufacturers care for that, if they didn't do their part.

I was sent a sample ammo pack from ARG with several Slugs from .22 to .30cal in different weights along with some T- Shirts, which I appreciated. After doing my first few shots, I knew these weren't a good fit for the FX Maverick VP .30cal. They were hard to chamber, and compared to other slugs they were oversized a fair bit. I stated the facts as I found them, but I also know that your airgun picks the ammo it likes, not you, so it's possible that these shoot great out of an Airforce Texan or other airgun.

But the difference with this scope is I know what it takes to design an electronic device, because I do this for my livelihood. And that's where my passionate response comes from; it's not opinion, it's expertise. And I hate the damage being done to ATN. But some aren't as fortunate as myself, and I get pissed when companies take that for granted, and treat customers as beta testers.

I can just imagine someone taking on gig work to try and scrape up the cash to get the 'best scope in the world', only to have their dreams crushed when they get this hot pile of mess. Honestly, I can't believe they are wasting time sending out RMAs, when they know for certainit ain't gonna fix nothing.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@N2 Shooter I've read a number of your posts and I respect your work. The term "influencer" may carry negative connotations or speak to paid promoters, but I meant it in a literal sense. When one creates content, especially well put together and informative content, one builds a following. Despite your intentions, your content influences your audience, hence my use of the term influencer. That's not to assume or claim that you don't buy your own gear. From your work with the digital ATNs to you r ballistics test and testing g-hogs, it's quality air gun content. I like that you're speaking out about legitimate issues with a brand that you've grown fond of. I find that tough to do sometimes for various reasons, but I feel the need to do it for reasons that I'm not quite sure how to articulate without ruffling feathers. Thanks Ed. It's a service to the airgun community.

 

[N2 Shooter]

@N2 Shooter I've read a number of your posts and I respect your work. The term "influencer" may carry negative connotations or speak to paid promoters, but I meant it in a literal sense. When one creates content, especially well put together and informative content, one builds a following. Despite your intentions, your content influences your audience, hence my use of the term influencer. That's not to assume or claim that you don't buy your own gear. From your work with the digital ATNs to you r ballistics test and testing g-hogs, it's quality air gun content. I like that you're speaking out about legitimate issues with a brand that you've grown fond of. I find that tough to do sometimes for various reasons, but I feel the need to do it for reasons that I'm not quite sure how to articulate without ruffling feathers. Thanks Ed. It's a service to the airgun community.

I really appreciate it.

 

[Rallyshark]

Thank you for this thread! I've been scraping by with a PARD NV007S on the back of a my scope(Trijicon Tenmile 4.5-30), and was considering biting the bullet and getting a dedicated setup. Mainly, because I've determined there is a slight enough delay in the image with the Pard that it can cause me not to hit exactly where I'm aiming on a pig noggin' bobbing around. I haven't lost any pigs yet, but I could tell that shots are off a bit with the Pard attached, even though I check zero with it attached. I've never had an issue bare scope, but that very slight delay has the potential for a less than favorable result... I can't really "see" the delay, but I know it is there.

That new ATN sure sounds like the cats meow, but reality seems it ain't ready for prime time. If any of you guys have a suggestion on a non-ATN solution that won't break the bank, I'm all ears. I wish I could find a good "clip on" solution, because I love good glass and don't like swapping scopes around. I have a friend with a Pulsar Digex N455 he'll sell me cheap, but those don't do color in the daylight. I think what I need is something with a fast refresh rate I guess? I really wish that ATN was what they claim it is

 

[N2 Shooter]

Thank you for this thread! I've been scraping by with a PARD NV007S on the back of a my scope(Trijicon Tenmile 4.5-30), and was considering biting the bullet and getting a dedicated setup. Mainly, because I've determined there is a slight enough delay in the image with the Pard that it can cause me not to hit exactly where I'm aiming on a pig noggin' bobbing around. I haven't lost any pigs yet, but I could tell that shots are off a bit with the Pard attached, even though I check zero with it attached. I've never had an issue bare scope, but that very slight delay has the potential for a less than favorable result... I can't really "see" the delay, but I know it is there.

That new ATN sure sounds like the cats meow, but reality seems it ain't ready for prime time. If any of you guys have a suggestion on a non-ATN solution that won't break the bank, I'm all ears. I wish I could find a good "clip on" solution, because I love good glass and don't like swapping scopes around. I have a friend with a Pulsar Digex N455 he'll sell me cheap, but those don't do color in the daylight. I think what I need is something with a fast refresh rate I guess? I really wish that ATN was what they claim it is

There seems to be a PARD model that has a Ballistics Calculator included, but it doesn't seem to offer high frame rate recording or 4K options.

NV008S(LRF) Day&Night Vision Rifle Scope - PARD

NV008S(LRF) day&night vision rifle scope features a three-level adjustable IR illuminator and PARD's unique image enhancement technology ,which makes hunting more simple.

pard.com

 

[Ezana4CE]

@N2 Shooter @Rallyshark Theres also this model Pard DS35 w/ballistic calculator. More traditional scope body.

DS35(LRF) Day&Night Vision Rifle Scope - PARD

The DS3x series uses an 800*800 LTPS circular display, which delivers high-clarity images with rich contrast and has an extra-wide field of view for enhanced

pard.com

Pard DS35 Digital Day/Night Vision Scope w/Ballistic Calculator, Recording, and Optional LRF (1200 yds)

I just came across this scope randomly on YouTube then looked it up. Looked interesting. A day/night vision scope shaped like a traditional scope that records your footage, has built in ballistic calculator software, and an optional laser rangefinder finder advertised for use out to 1200 yards...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[Rallyshark]

Thanks guys. I've seen the NV008 before, and that DS35 looks interesting too. I'm stuck on the fence trying to figure out if I'm okay to keep scratching by with the NV007S(knowing the downfalls), just so I can keep my much loved Trijicon on the gun... Like I said before, I love good glass, and I know I'll never have that with any brand of night vision(that I can afford).