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Are We asking Too Much?

L.Leon

Member
Aug 29, 2018
4,046
121
NY, United States
    The question is what does the customer expect when spending over 2K on any PCP? We are not asking, we are choosing to buy a product. For me it would be simple. The PCP should work as advertised right out the box, that's it... I don't want to have to use any vendors customer service. If there are non user induced issues? I expect the vendor or warranty to make it right as quickly as they can. 
     
    I always pay close attention to what VetMx has to say and for sure there is frustration here, but I don't see it as on the surface as it may seem. And I think I get what VetMX is talking about, I see it a lot all the time. Same questions asked by different people all the time when starting out way above their heads. Hell even I make the mistake at times asking dumb questions still, I admit it. That is why they say don't cut your teeth on an M3! They don't even take the time to do a search and start learning on their own, they want others to spoon feed them. I look back on my journey and I was very fortunate to find people that were able to help me and I had the courage, I guess to to go ahead and rip apart an expensive gun and learn it. There are several turning points for PCP ownership I believe. One reaching out to the source material and learning how to tune your gun that you received from the factory with factory specs ands stat there, through schematics and combing threads; know how air travels through the gun, and why your pellet in the end comes out at a certain speed. Can you tear the gun down and replace seals, all of them? Do you understand the manufacturers defects and limitations of the product itself at todays point in time? Others will be found later, keep up on the info. I am not taking about customer service here, just the gun. Do you have ideas of a work a workaround? Getting to where you want the gun to function how it’s supposed to be at the speed it is supposed, to work efficiently at the "tune" and be happy with that. It takes growth, it doesn't happen overnight. It's a hobby not just shooting. Not all want to work with their hands and in their mind to get there. It’s the do it for me world we live in. And that’s what causes frustrations for those that do the real work like VetMX and others on the forum. Definably see that the engineers on the forum do the best at this stuff, why? because it isn't easy. To me that's a challenge I want to keep climbing the hill for. 

    With that said, once you know a gun in and out and you can fix it all, That in its self shouldn't let a manufacturer or dealer off the hook in anyway. The cost of the gun came with a warranty. They didn't give that to you for free, you paid for that as part of the gun. They are obligated to do at least the minimum as they choose to, sell complicated engineers guns and take your money. And YES, I do expect the two points from a dealer/manufacture the OP stated. That is NOT too much to ask. 

    I could be wrong on my thoughts on progression of the thread, who knows. But the is just my 1 cent, I would say 2 cents, but not at that level yet. lol
     
    The question is what does the customer expect when spending over 2K on any PCP? We are not asking, we are choosing to buy a product. For me it would be simple. The PCP should work as advertised right out the box, that's it... I don't want to have to use any vendors customer service. If there are non user induced issues? I expect the vendor or warranty to make it right as quickly as they can.

    I chose your comment specifically to reply. I recall that you are a Brocock advocate iirc. I recently purchased 3 XR platforms from a very well known retailer. The first two were fine. Packaging needs to be upgraded considerably due to the way things are tossed around these days. Two box solution with minimum padding creates a hit or miss situation.

    The third one came in. The box was in decent condition outside. The first thing I noticed after unboxing it was how the muzzle end of the bottle was tight against the shroud. There was no gap. I looked at the shroud and bottle connection and neither seemed to be damaged. I bet I couldn’t squeeze floss between the shroud and bottle which should have a few millimeters of a gap. I am not sure how this was overlooked when they took it out for the shot string..

    To answer the Op’s question, this is not what I would expect to receive with a new purchase, especially since it was my third in a few weeks. One would think, “hey, that client is purchasing a lot from us, let’s take extra care”. However, the retailer made it right, and let me return it for a full refund, so not much of a complaint here, only a minor hassle and expensive shipping cost on my end.

    top
     
    I always pay close attention to what VetMx has to say and for sure there is frustration here, but I don't see it as on the surface as it may seem. And I think I get what VetMX is talking about, I see it a lot all the time. Same questions asked by different people all the time when starting out way above their heads. Hell even I make the mistake at times asking dumb questions still, I admit it. That is why they say don't cut your teeth on an M3! They don't even take the time to do a search and start learning on their own, they want others to spoon feed them. I look back on my journey and I was very fortunate to find people that were able to help me and I had the courage, I guess to to go ahead and rip apart an expensive gun and learn it. There are several turning points for PCP ownership I believe. One reaching out to the source material and learning how to tune your gun that you received from the factory with factory specs ands stat there, through schematics and combing threads; know how air travels through the gun, and why your pellet in the end comes out at a certain speed. Can you tear the gun down and replace seals, all of them? Do you understand the manufacturers defects and limitations of the product itself at todays point in time? Others will be found later, keep up on the info. I am not taking about customer service here, just the gun. Do you have ideas of a work a workaround? Getting to where you want the gun to function how it’s supposed to be at the speed it is supposed, to work efficiently at the "tune" and be happy with that. It takes growth, it doesn't happen overnight. It's a hobby not just shooting. Not all want to work with their hands and in their mind to get there. It’s the do it for me world we live in. And that’s what causes frustrations for those that do the real work like VetMX and others on the forum. Definably see that the engineers on the forum do the best at this stuff, why? because it isn't easy. To me that's a challenge I want to keep climbing the hill for. 

    With that said, once you know a gun in and out and you can fix it all, That in its self shouldn't let a manufacturer or dealer off the hook in anyway. The cost of the gun came with a warranty. They didn't give that to you for free, you paid for that as part of the gun. They are obligated to do at least the minimum as they choose to, sell complicated engineers guns and take your money. And YES, I do expect the two points from a dealer/manufacture the OP stated. That is NOT too much to ask. 

    I could be wrong on my thoughts on progression of the thread, who knows. But the is just my 1 cent, I would say 2 cents, but not at that level yet. lol

    I read VetMX’s comments along with other’s, and I normally agree with him, but not so much here.

    Sure, we should all have some degree of knowledge regarding diy in this sport, but to say that if we can’t fix it, we shouldn’t play is unfair. I have four hobbies. I don’t expect anyone who owns a home to be able to make their own furniture, I don’t expect a guitar collector to be able to play Van Halen licks, and I don’t expect anyone who owns a vehicle to do more than simple maintenance.

    Kudos to all of you wizards out there. Some who know me consider me one of those wizards, but I know my limitations and comfortability when working on something. Can I re-roof my home? Sure I can, but should I, do I want to? I can tile better than some of my contractors who’s only craft is tile work, but..

    Hobbies are about fun, some enjoy the constant tinkering, some just want to sit back and lounge relaxing while punching paper on a Sunday afternoon.

    I can see the simple ingenious regarding the soda can fix, but really? It would come of as an insult to me regarding a fix for a new $2k purchase of almost any kind. Maybe an acceptable fix for a Benjamin, cheap Chinese rifle or the like, but not what I consider worthy for an Edgun or the like.

    My Ridgid tablesaw as a few bronze shims to level the cast iron wings, but to say my Harvey tablesaw requires the same is not equal. That’s some wood working talk for you that don’t know what I speak of.

    top
     
    The question is what does the customer expect when spending over 2K on any PCP? We are not asking, we are choosing to buy a product. For me it would be simple. The PCP should work as advertised right out the box, that's it... I don't want to have to use any vendors customer service. If there are non user induced issues? I expect the vendor or warranty to make it right as quickly as they can.

    I chose your comment specifically to reply. I recall that you are a Brocock advocate iirc. I recently purchased 3 XR platforms from a very well known retailer. The first two were fine. Packaging needs to be upgraded considerably due to the way things are tossed around these days. Two box solution with minimum padding creates a hit or miss situation.

    The third one came in. The box was in decent condition outside. The first thing I noticed after unboxing it was how the muzzle end of the bottle was tight against the shroud. There was no gap. I looked at the shroud and bottle connection and neither seemed to be damaged. I bet I couldn’t squeeze floss between the shroud and bottle which should have a few millimeters of a gap. I am not sure how this was overlooked when they took it out for the shot string..

    To answer the Op’s question, this is not what I would expect to receive with a new purchase, especially since it was my third in a few weeks. One would think, “hey, that client is purchasing a lot from us, let’s take extra care”. However, the retailer made it right, and let me return it for a full refund, so not much of a complaint here, only a minor hassle and expensive shipping cost on my end.

    top

    I enjoyed your last two posts and I appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion which I agree with mostly. Very well thought out and intelligent. Thank you. 
     

    Vetmx

    Member
    Dec 4, 2017
    3,165
    137
    Pa, United States
      Coyotegod, I finally read your topic, almost had to. Brian needs to make things right or at least come to a mutually satisfying resolution.Yes, I only know one side of the story and that’s not fair to him but I’m not shimming anything on my gun unless its a mod I did myself and was a little off with my machining. At least you have the option to walk in the store. Use that to your advantage. It’s better than being hung on a hook a thousand miles from the person who can resolve your issue. I’ve only ever sent on gun back and it was to AOA. Dealt with Rich and he was great. But that was a good while before this hobby went off the rails.
       
      Coyotegod, I finally read your topic, almost had to. Brian needs to make things right or at least come to a mutually satisfying resolution.Yes, I only know one side of the story and that’s not fair to him but I’m not shimming anything on my gun unless its a mod I did myself and was a little off with my machining. At least you have the option to walk in the store. Use that to your advantage. It’s better than being hung on a hook a thousand miles from the person who can resolve your issue. I’ve only ever sent on gun back and it was to AOA. Dealt with Rich and he was great. But that was a good while before this hobby went off the rails.

      I would be down there Monday, if it wasn't by appt only. He has a secret shop that is not listed on his web page. The address is actually a UPS store miles away. When you do get "invited" the doors are locked and he lets you in. There is not confronting. I do not shy away from a fight verbal or otherwise, but I reserve those moments for really bad things, when it comes to clerical stuff or just bad customers service, I reach out and let it be known and hopefully let the "process" of peer pressure handle it or I use the systems of protection like credit cards and banks. I do know I will have to deal with the warranty issue at some point but again there is SC court for that, if at the last resort. 

      I know, no one is advocating any type of violence, but "confronting" someone unexpectedly is not brave or appropriate, it in a way could be considered cowardly and for sure is unnecessary. Honestly of this situation, getting info out for other to make decisions and peer pressure is what I am looking for and just telling my frustration so I can get it off my soul. After that, I will let the checks and balances do the work. If that doesn't work there is SC court in Barstow Cal.

      AND I agree this is one side of the story. I tried to make an inviting post to where he could jump on and give information. But possibly the reality would be "he's lying?" would be the response. Well then I would just post the info I gave the bank of all the calls and texts with no response and other evidence information. The messages I left, the conversation with his staff with no resolution, no offer to make it right. I never bashed him or his company, I simply told my honest experience. If it put EGW in a bad light that was totally on that company. I wish so many hadn't reached out to PM me of their own bad interactions or posted about them here, I wish I was an outlier on this, but I assure you unfortunately I am not. I wish I knew this before I bought as I wouldn't have ever done so on such a large investment. The L2 was just not worth this...
       
      Yikes! I hope you didn’t interpret what I said the wrong way. I didn’t suggest you go to his shop and thump him. I just thought it was convenient that he can inspect issues while your there and fix, refund or exchange. Or at least give you a soda can.

      I did not, I know exactly what you meant, I was just clarifying incase maybe someone else might not have. Also I wanted to clarify that Brian has his set up to where you can't just head down there for a repair, fix, return or exchange. You must be invited. And I am out of the circle now. No more invites. I could go to his website, fill out the form for a warranty inspection, then send the gun in for $50 bucks (the gun be gone for money - what others have said their experience is), but that doesn't handle my barrel issue as that is not part of the gun warranty. 

      Just know I knew what you mean and I did not interpret you in any way condoning any type of violence in anyway.

      I do however, wish I could be more optimistic on my issues with my gun, Brian and EGW. I want so badly for a positive outcome.
       
      To get back on track with the OP, I would say that his two expectations are spot-on: integrity and communication. Most successful business are built on the first quality, otherwise they would likely fail, being beaten out by other, more honest, vendors.



      Communication has always been challenging. Just read through the posts on this thread and you will see examples of written communications that can be misunderstood, taken the wrong way, or outright confusing for some (especially those members to whom English is not their primary language). Today we are lucky to have multiple ways to communicate: in-person, message boards/forums, telephones/cell phones, text messages, email, websites, and on. While I can understand there are limitations when businesses grow, and communications can suffer, the myriad of available methods available make it inexcusable to simply ignore contact from a paying customer. Just a simple auto-response that lets a customer know that you have received their message, and it may take a few days to get back to them is a great start, and not very difficult to do. If the excuse is the business has grown too fast to keep up contact with customer complaints, perhaps some small amount of the earnings (from customers spending money) should be spent on an assistant to respond to customers so they don't feel completely abandoned?
       
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