Are the squirrels tougher in NY or is everyone's pants on fire?

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zebra

Member
Sep 29, 2015
1,779
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New York
If I take what everyone here tells me at face value then you are all hunting with flawless precision - hitting every squirrel with a perfect head shot with your JSBs - resulting in an instant, painless and humane death by airgun. The caliber matters not. The energy doesn't either... apparently....

So..... But.... and of course "however".... I am getting different results. 

This is week I have been hunting with 22 cal JSB 15's in my Mutant. The last 3 shots all hit squirrels straight on the dome (where they were meant to) but all 3 squirrels survived, for at least a while. 

The last one fell / jumped out of a tree and fell more than 30 feet. It landed on relatively hard ground. It did not move for a few seconds so I put my Mutant down. I could see blood around it's face - leaking from the head wound. To my semi-surprise, it suddenly sprung to life and legged it into the bushes where it disappeared from view. It had been playing dead. I didn't know squirrels did that....

An isolated miracle / freak occurrence you might think but it wasn't that unusual for me. The one before it was similar. I hit a squirrel in the head. It had blood and goo hanging out the hole. It was fairly gruesome in a comedy kind of way. It was hanging upside down by it's back legs for over three minutes until it fell to the ground. It got up and ran off with half it's head hanging off....

My Chronograph revealed no problems with my Mutant. It was firing on full power. So, I'm not very impressed JSB 15's (or 18's) for hunting. Don't get me wrong, they are accurate. If it was for a match, there is no other brand I would think to use. For hunting, they are not getting it done and I almost felt a guilt-like feeling in the space where my heart should be. I can still hear one of the squirrels crying in pain from it's hiding place beyond my reach. It's not haunting my thoughts or anything like that. I can literally hear it if I open my window right now...

The question is... why is everyone else getting better results than me? I'm not the best shot in the world but I am not the worst either. I was hitting their heads and their heads are teeny tiny. When I use H&N hunter extreme, nothing survives. Not ever, or at least so far. 

Do we have unusually tough squirrels in NY compared to the rest of America? Or has anyone else experienced what I'll call the "zombie squirrel syndrome" when using JSB pellets?

I should note that this only happens in 22 cal. My 25 turns out their lights like they were....um....well....lights...

 
I've never hit a squirrel in the head with any caliber that didn't drop it dead in its tracks... I mean... after the subsequent, and rather fascinating, flopping around that subsequently follows most headshots, that is. But anymore, I only use either .25 or .30 cal for any pesting/hunting due to .22 and .177 cal just not having the knock down needed to humanely take the critter down if the shot placement isn't dead nuts. I don't ALWAYS hit exactly where I want... But I'd say 60% of the time, I do it EVERY time... 😀
 
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The actual lights out kill zone of a squirrels head is much smaller than the head itself. The reason a larger caliber works better (and yes it does!!) Is because of the increased surface area having a better chance of staying in the true kill zone of a head shot.

To answer your question, NO!! Squirrels are not tougher in NY. Honestly, a very inate knowledge of a squirrels head dramatically increases your instant kill ratio. I have had similar things happen with a .22 LR and airguns as well. In a situation when a great head shot is not a guarantee, I take a heart/lung shot as that is certain death and a much bigger target.
 
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I've shot at only 3 squirrels with an air rifle (AA .22). Killed the two I hit and missed the other. I have however been hunting squirrels with .22LR and a bit with .17HMR for about 50 years. I almost always went for head shots and I can't recall one, in hundreds, that survived that shot with the RF.

I am getting ready to focus on squirrel with my Daystate Wolverine Hi-Lite in .25 as soon as I'm finished bowhunting deer this year. 
 
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This makes me feel better knowing it's not just me. 

Squirrels are thought little critters. Given how small they are, a 30 foot drop for them after being hit with a 22 would be like one of us falling out of a 5th or 6th story window after getting shot in the head with a 50 cal and then just getting up and shaking it off. 

btw, I've noticed that they don't shake around like they are having a seizure when they get hit by a 25 most of the time. More often than not they just drop dead. I guess you would if a cannon ball tore a hole through your neck. 
 
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"zebra"This makes me feel better knowing it's not just me. 

Squirrels are thought little critters. Given how small they are, a 30 foot drop for them after being hit with a 22 would be like one of us falling out of a 5th or 6th story window after getting shot in the head with a 50 cal and then just getting up and shaking it off. 

btw, I've noticed that they don't shake around like they are having a seizure when they get hit by a 25 most of the time. More often than not they just drop dead. I guess you would if a cannon ball tore a hole through your neck.
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Well, They do seem to flop around a bit more when I shoot them with a 14 fpe .177 compared to a 35 fpe .25. That is for sure true. Head shots are all I take because I hate having them crawl off to die (where I can't get them) from a body shot. I think body shots are as humane as a head shot but others will no doubt disagree. To each his own. The problem with a head shot is that a miss that wounds (a face hit) will leave them suffering for days while they starve out. When I lay in my sight I always pick the spot I want the pellet to exit before I pick the spot I want the pellet to enter. That seems to help me ensure that the pellet passes squarely through the on/off switch. Usually that is just center of mass on the head to be honest but I always think about where that pellet should exit the squirrel. I think of that squirrel brain as a marble, because it is just about that size. You could imagine it being a paint ball as well. Next time you clean a squirrel, take the time to do a little exploratory surgery.

I don't know if that will help but I think your JSB .22s from that Mutant should be stoning them with clean head shots...

Oh yeah, and there ain't no hunters hitting 100%, that's the grail, not the reality.
 
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"Goodtogo"It would be strange if everyone said to use head shots on deer? I use head shots on some squirrels but I will just as quick take a heart & lung on a squirrel.
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It would be strange if everyone said to use head shots on deer. I won't take the heart/lung shot on a squirrel as quickly simply because they always run for a few seconds and that is enough time for them to get to somewhere that I can't recover them. If I were pesting and not eating them I would take nothing but heart lung shots because then I would not care if they got under a shed or up into a tree where I could not get to them.
 
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If you hit a squirrel in the brain " where its suppose to be" its going to be DRT even with a puny 8 gr. .177. The guys across the pond use sub 12 fpe .177 every day to humanely kill grey squirrels, pigeons and various corvids with brain shots. I do it myself and anything I have hit where its suppose to go is DRT. I have shot hundreds of tree squirrels and ground squirrels the last two summers and 99.9% were headshots. I can count using less than three fingers all the ones that were not DRT. The two that needed another had a head shot but not exactly perfect so they got a second to finish it. One was my fault as I pulled the shot ever so slightly the second im not sure but the hit was slightly forward and wasnt on camera so no examination. 

If youre not getting DRT results with brain shots at 8 fpe and higher youre not doing it right. You may think the hit was good but it wasnt. To argue other wise is like saying you can cut an animals brain or heart out and it will survive. If the brain is hit in its vital areas theres no possible way for the animal to live. If you have trouble getting that perfect hit on that small target then dont take those shots. 
 
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"LDP"If you hit a squirrel in the brain " where its suppose to be" its going to be DRT even with a puny 8 gr. .177. The guys across the pond use sub 12 fpe .177 every day to humanely kill grey squirrels, pigeons and various corvids with brain shots. I do it myself and anything I have hit where its suppose to go is DRT. I have shot hundreds of tree squirrels and ground squirrels the last two summers and 99.9% were headshots. I can count using less than three fingers all the ones that were not DRT. The two that needed another had a head shot but not exactly perfect so they got a second to finish it. One was my fault as I pulled the shot ever so slightly the second im not sure but the hit was slightly forward and wasnt on camera so no examination. 

If youre not getting DRT results with brain shots at 8 fpe and higher youre not doing it right. You may think the hit was good but it wasnt. To argue other wise is like saying you can cut an animals brain or heart out and it will survive. If the brain is hit in its vital areas theres no possible way for the animal to live. If you have trouble getting that perfect hit on that small target then dont take those shots.
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I'll respectfully disagree on that based on my experiences. I've seen a couple of things happen to make me form this opinion. I understand that your opinion is based on your experiences.

First is that I have actually seen a pellet bounce off a squirrel at 9fpe when it hit at an angle (caused by the squirrel turning it's head). That was at around 30 yards. 

Second, and far more common, is that pellets don't do as much damage at lower power levels causing more suffering for the animal. I've seen this enough times (at more than double the suggested 8fpe). 

It doesn't matter how good a persons marksmanship is, squirrels and other small game do not stay still unless they are sleeping. Even if they are sitting on a branch, they still move their head and look side to side. The lower the power, the more poi shift there will be from the wind too. As others have said, nobody has a perfect score.

I lived in the UK for a number of years and people there aren't saying "12 fpe is more than enough, let's turn the power down to 8fpe to save air". 12 foe is barely enough and only for certain game at very close range. They use that power level to be compliant with the law but it is far from optimal for hunting. 12fpe was chosen as the power level they believe separates lethal weapons from garden plinkers....

If you look on the pyramid Air site, how many low power guns are suggested for hunting? Somewhere between very few and none. 

Even if I didn't care about humane hunting (which I do), I also want / need to prevent injured animals running off and dying on my neighbors doorstep. That sort of thing tends to cause problems...
 
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Look at my hunting story from this morning. That one took 3 head shots to kill. The first one would have been fatal, as it cut a groove through the top of his skull. He was laying there, heart beating, having a labored breath every every couple seconds, bleeding like I don't know what.

I'd say that for head shots, I'm about 85% one-shot kills. I got 30 squirrels this year so far, three were failed head shots. Two were jaws. One was the one I mentioned above.

I took probably 65% head shots and the rest chest shots. As Aaron said, clip the lung (easy to do) and it is fatal. Just not necessarily as quick as a good head shot. They do run a bit.

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The one you shot was not playing dead. It was knocked out, either from the fall or the pellet impact. Why it didn't kill it, I don't know. He's got a splitting headache, which will eventually be fatal. I know it sucks that you can't get him though.

My experience with domed pellets is similar. They're very accurate and efficient, but don't cause a lot of damage, compared to other pellet types; they just sail right through, sometimes pushing tissue out of the way, rather than damaging it.

FWIW, my best squirrel round so far has been Crow Magnums; though they're not as accurate as the domes. At 14 yards, they're cloverleafing, and domes are one ragged hole. I'm trying Baracuda Hunters now. (non-extreme-type)

You need to find an expanding pellet that shoots acceptably well from your Mutant. 'seems you've had good luck with the Hunter Extremes, why not use those then? Not accurate enough at the ranges you typically hunt at? If not, try Baracuda Hunters. (non-extreme) They are equal in accuracy to the Baracuda Match in my .177 Compatto.
 
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I never said the guys in the UK think they should drop the power even further. They do use sub 12 fpe to stay legal and they get the job done doing it. They understand that you wait for that perfect shot and thats it. If you cant decide when to take a shot and do it in that instant then yes you will have problems even with higher power. I took five coons last night with 15.5 fpe @ 25 yds in the dark using a light. I made one bad shot and the rest went down with a single head shot. Two adults and three youngsters as big as mom. So either your squirrels are tougher than coons or your shots didnt hit the mark. Again theres no possible way for an animal to live with a proper brain shot. The brain controls everything thats needed for the animal to live not to mention it has a large amount of blood flow. If you damage the brain and end its ability to keep vital organs working the animal cannot live. If you are arguing that a bad brain hit isnt lethal then I agree. But if you are saying a good brain hit isnt always lethal then I cant agree. Not every one should try for brain hits and we need to be honest with our ability and equipments ability to make the shot. Not every shot should be a brain shot either. The one doing the shooting has to be able to make the correct decision for each shot. Some are better than others with deciding when and where the shot needs to be. 
 
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Zebra,

I've seen the same with a 37 fpe jsb 18 .22. Most of the time, they drop in their tracks, but yes, I have had them limp away at 30+ yards before the 2nd shot finished them. That was part of the reason I went for .25 and .30. I've yet to have one walk away from a 75 fpe .30. Even had a bad shot on a chipmunk that jump at the wrong time and got him center of body. He died of the shock almost immediately.
 
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"zebra"btw, I've noticed that they don't shake around like they are having a seizure when they get hit by a 25 most of the time. More often than not they just drop dead. I guess you would if a cannon ball tore a hole through your neck.
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I too have noticed that the more "overkill" you provide on a brain shot the less spasms there are. If I think of the brain as a fuse box, shooting it with a small caliber is just clipping the main wires. Main power gets cut off, but there's enough circuitry in the system to allow the excess electricity to dissipate (thus spasms). Shooting the fuse box with a large caliber rips the entire fuse box off the wall and trashes it, not leaving enough infrastructure to send final signals to the rest of the body. That's what makes sense to me anyhow. 
 
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Hi my name is broken record. Nobody has perfect shot placement all of the time. Nobody. Nobody. NOBODY! Not you, you and definitely not you. 

Even if you were shooting at squirrels that were already dead, artificially enlarged and nailed in place so they don't move, you still would not have perfect shot placement all of the time. I know this because even the best marksman on earth do not make perfect shots every time and none of us here are the best. 

Animals move, the wind, flyers etc happen to everyone. EVERYONE! No gun is 100% consistent with the poi either. Not one and definitely not anything made by Crossman.

We all know that shot placement is important so nobody say that again. The point of this thread is that EVEN WITH HEAD SHOTS
, some squirrels survive JSB 15's and 18's. 

As others have had a similar experience, it shows the important of ammo choice, adequate power and using the largest caliber you have to increase the chances of achieving a clean kill. 



 
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