Are PCPs becoming more popular BECAUSE of inexpensive magnum springers?
- Thread starter Smaug
- Start date
Not for me personally.
I am and have been a springerhead for nearly ten years now (6 HW rifles). I recently (last Sept.) tried PCP by converting a QB78 over to HPA. Soon after that I converted another QB with a repeater kit installed. I have always wanted to own a high end PCP just because I like to shoot and it's something different from what I had. Last month I bought a used FX 400 to fill that desire of a high end PCP. I didn't move to PCP from a poor experience shooting over sprung airguns, it was a simple desire to explore and enjoy what I love doing, shooting airguns in my backyard! I have never understood the division, of some, between spring guns and PCPs. It's all fun for me and I enjoy them both and even a pumper or CO2 (which I have also).
You do pose an interesting question with the OP and I think your theory has some truth in it for many but that isn't the case for me. The last one to go, for me, would be my HW95 .177. Second to last would be my .177 cal QB78 repeater.
I am and have been a springerhead for nearly ten years now (6 HW rifles). I recently (last Sept.) tried PCP by converting a QB78 over to HPA. Soon after that I converted another QB with a repeater kit installed. I have always wanted to own a high end PCP just because I like to shoot and it's something different from what I had. Last month I bought a used FX 400 to fill that desire of a high end PCP. I didn't move to PCP from a poor experience shooting over sprung airguns, it was a simple desire to explore and enjoy what I love doing, shooting airguns in my backyard! I have never understood the division, of some, between spring guns and PCPs. It's all fun for me and I enjoy them both and even a pumper or CO2 (which I have also).
You do pose an interesting question with the OP and I think your theory has some truth in it for many but that isn't the case for me. The last one to go, for me, would be my HW95 .177. Second to last would be my .177 cal QB78 repeater.
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I know I am going to get blasted, so no prob bring it on 
.... I am not an expert in Air Rifles, but I do have a 30yr plus involvement in professional level sponsored shooting, from archery to long range rifle both military and private sector. Our society for the most, have a need of "instant gratification", IE instant accuracy from a air rifle. Not wanting to try different pellets, learning proper shooting disciplines for springer/piston. Magnum springer/piston rifles require even more practice and testing. I have a .22 magnum piston Gamo rifle that I am now getting 10 shot groups at 40 yds that fit under a quarter, that's not competition accuracy but sure the heck takes out tree rats. Yeah the QC at Gamo really is bad, but it does shoot good and it cost me around $230 so is that in the inexpensive range ? I have spent some time and not what I would call lots of money compared to the costs of my PB ammo ! learning to shoot my springer and I personally like the challenge, but this is not for everyone. Those who knock springers have either not ever taken the time to learn how to shoot one, don't want to take the time or have never really shot a good one. I see the attraction to PCP, but to get a truly accurate version with all the necessaries, are you not looking at $1500+ . I personally could not go the hand pump route and don't want to haul around a scuba tank so a compressor would be more practical for me. Am I missing something ?
Here is the real deal to me, since I work in federal law enforcement. If a PCP rifle is capable of producing enough FPE to kill a hog then it should not be a "Ghostgun" it should require a FFL application to own, just like any other legal firearm. Before Y'all ask "Ghostguns" is a newer terminology the anti 2nd amendment idiots and media are using for firearms that don't have serial numbers and don't require FFL's. You can buy these online in may forms, AR 15's being one of them. All of this is just me looking at it from another perspective.
.... I am not an expert in Air Rifles, but I do have a 30yr plus involvement in professional level sponsored shooting, from archery to long range rifle both military and private sector. Our society for the most, have a need of "instant gratification", IE instant accuracy from a air rifle. Not wanting to try different pellets, learning proper shooting disciplines for springer/piston. Magnum springer/piston rifles require even more practice and testing. I have a .22 magnum piston Gamo rifle that I am now getting 10 shot groups at 40 yds that fit under a quarter, that's not competition accuracy but sure the heck takes out tree rats. Yeah the QC at Gamo really is bad, but it does shoot good and it cost me around $230 so is that in the inexpensive range ? I have spent some time and not what I would call lots of money compared to the costs of my PB ammo ! learning to shoot my springer and I personally like the challenge, but this is not for everyone. Those who knock springers have either not ever taken the time to learn how to shoot one, don't want to take the time or have never really shot a good one. I see the attraction to PCP, but to get a truly accurate version with all the necessaries, are you not looking at $1500+ . I personally could not go the hand pump route and don't want to haul around a scuba tank so a compressor would be more practical for me. Am I missing something ?Here is the real deal to me, since I work in federal law enforcement. If a PCP rifle is capable of producing enough FPE to kill a hog then it should not be a "Ghostgun" it should require a FFL application to own, just like any other legal firearm. Before Y'all ask "Ghostguns" is a newer terminology the anti 2nd amendment idiots and media are using for firearms that don't have serial numbers and don't require FFL's. You can buy these online in may forms, AR 15's being one of them. All of this is just me looking at it from another perspective.
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No, it doesn't cost $1500+. I got my .177 Marauder used for $350 and went all-out on a high-end Hill pump. That rig, with lubed Crosman Premier Heavies would shoot under 3/4" at 50 yards, was easy to pump.
As to the second quoted sentence above, yes, a hand pump would be more practical, especially as you don't sound like the kind of person who's afraid to put a little work into it. The reason people hate pumping is because it's so fast and easy to shoot enough rounds through a PCP that you could easily spend 10 minutes pumping for every 5 minutes of shooting. Not to mention you'll go through pellets faster. In reality, apples to apples, it probably takes the same amount of time to shoot and pump for 50 rounds in PCP vs. shoot-cock-load-shoot-cock-load in a springer. It's just that you get to "pump" a little at a time with a springer, instead of all at once.
That is some pretty fine shooting, with an inexpensive magnum springer. My best groups with mine (Benjamin Summit NP2) have been around 1.5" @ 30 yards. 2" is more typical. But that was with a 4X scope, which is really inadequate past about 20 yards, in my opinion. Yes, $250 is a budget magnum springer. The European ones start well north of $500, but are easier to shoot accurately due to weighing more and having more consistent manufacturing and quality control. My old .177 Diana 56TH was PCP-accurate out to 50 yards or so, but that was about an $800 gun, and a real beast to carry and support.
Bottom line is that you can get an accurate PCP for under $400, but it just has very different strengths than a springer:
+ Easy accuracy; not hold-sensitive
+ 1 fill = many shots with no fiddling
^ Those two things make them GREAT for hunting.
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Smaug tks brother, I am really on the edge as to which way to go. I have a messed up spine and legs due to a injury in the military. I am concerned about the efforts required to use a hand pump. Lucky for me the airgun club I am joining THAGC here in NC has a good group of guys who are going to let me shoot their FT guns and I am sure one of them has a hand pump I can try out. Fussel (jimmy) just emailed me and told me about renting filled air tanks. I might be able to get tanks filled at the VA Hospital where I work at too . Yeah it looks like I got really luck with my purchase on that Gamo fusion .22. Maybe they messed up and somehow got a BSA bbl on it It does shoot great but the stock has serious QC issues, all the edges around the cocking pivot point on stock are so sharp they will cut ya. I am shooting the Luxor copper pellets and maybe that has something to do with my unusual accuracy, plus I did put a Hammers scope on it too.
I am really try to absorb all the info on PCP shooting and do appreciate any pointers yall could send my way...tks.... Dale
. Yeah it looks like I got really luck with my purchase on that Gamo fusion .22. Maybe they messed up and somehow got a BSA bbl on it It does shoot great but the stock has serious QC issues, all the edges around the cocking pivot point on stock are so sharp they will cut ya. I am shooting the Luxor copper pellets and maybe that has something to do with my unusual accuracy, plus I did put a Hammers scope on it too.I am really try to absorb all the info on PCP shooting and do appreciate any pointers yall could send my way...tks.... Dale
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I believe so. I spent many hours and a variety of pellets and hold techniques to get several $200 springers/gas rams to shoot under an inch c-t-c at 25 yards. None would. I target shoot and don't hunt and decided I would waste no more time and $$$ practicing shooting a rifle that moves before the pellet exits the barrel. Bought a 1720t on sale from Amazon and shoot it as a carbine and have no regrets.
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I bought a walmart B/B 22cal gun to kill squirrels that ate my home, patio furniture,power line, gazibo, while i was working away for wks at a time,I hid in a carport and fixed that problem was so fun ,neighbors didn't complain,1.5" @ 35.bought a few german springers kits chrono, ,spring compressors, greasey fingers ,still hold altitude ,pellet sensitive scope breaking.cannons.Took them to work higher elevation western ks.lots of wind and you cant sneak up on nothing Id read myself to the darkside edge .lot of kit to start,Thought if i could only hold one ,was at an archer place with friend . was shown a daystate mk4.177 and a royal 400 in 2012,bought the fx and a 75 omega 1500 started in on the western ks long tailed grackle population that wkend.I really started chasing distance and accuracy without having to hold your mouth right.try hitting a 5" metal gong@300 with a springer
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Smaug I owe you and others an apology. I was off a bit on the group size, well a little more than a bit . One of the Police Officers and I here at the VA Hospital were talking about groups and how good my air rifle and pistol had shot. We pulled out the targets and dang ! I was wrong, my group was larger than what a quarter can cover. I think a half dollar would a have a few just outside the edge. So I do apologize if I mislead anyone. We had shot a lot of different guns that day so maybe I just got the wrong target in mind or maybe just one of those gray moments... Dale
. One of the Police Officers and I here at the VA Hospital were talking about groups and how good my air rifle and pistol had shot. We pulled out the targets and dang ! I was wrong, my group was larger than what a quarter can cover. I think a half dollar would a have a few just outside the edge. So I do apologize if I mislead anyone. We had shot a lot of different guns that day so maybe I just got the wrong target in mind or maybe just one of those gray moments... DaleUpvote 0
LIVIT, now that I read about your injury...
Do try pumping. Maybe it won't hurt?
If it does, I'm surprised cocking a springer doesn't hurt. That tends to twist the back, rather than going straight up & down.
One possibly good option, depending on climate, might be a nice CO2 rifle, like the Hammerli 850 AirMagnum in .22. That's got enough juice to smoke a squirrel out to maybe 25 yards, plenty accurate with its Walther barrel, and it can also be modded to run on high pressure air (PCP) if/when you decide to go that direction. If not, it can also be modded to run off of cheaper CO2 sources, like cheaply-refilled paintball tanks instead of the proprietary airgun tanks. If you shoot outside in cooler weather, this may not be a good option.
I have a modded Hammerli 850 AirMagnum, it's pretty great. Maybe the best action of any gun costing less than $400. Smooth, strong, solid. Good magazines. Mine shoots 14.3 gr. JSBs at 940 fps, for 28 FPE. The squirrels are going to have to be wary of Ol' Smaug next season.
Here are a couple shots of my 850:
Do try pumping. Maybe it won't hurt?
If it does, I'm surprised cocking a springer doesn't hurt. That tends to twist the back, rather than going straight up & down.
One possibly good option, depending on climate, might be a nice CO2 rifle, like the Hammerli 850 AirMagnum in .22. That's got enough juice to smoke a squirrel out to maybe 25 yards, plenty accurate with its Walther barrel, and it can also be modded to run on high pressure air (PCP) if/when you decide to go that direction. If not, it can also be modded to run off of cheaper CO2 sources, like cheaply-refilled paintball tanks instead of the proprietary airgun tanks. If you shoot outside in cooler weather, this may not be a good option.
I have a modded Hammerli 850 AirMagnum, it's pretty great. Maybe the best action of any gun costing less than $400. Smooth, strong, solid. Good magazines. Mine shoots 14.3 gr. JSBs at 940 fps, for 28 FPE. The squirrels are going to have to be wary of Ol' Smaug next season.
Here are a couple shots of my 850:
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Nice shooting bud ! To cock my gamo I have to sit down rest butt against foot and leg. I have found it not too difficult that way at all. I am looking at getting into FT with the club I am joining. My wants are 177, adjustable reg, Wood stock. Once I do the purchase of all the extras, I would really like to get a 25 to use for coyotes. Then eventually a larger caliber to use for pigs and maybe even deer. I am very interested in a design that I could change calibers just by swapping barrels. I have not really researched the larger bore rifles yet, I am afraid too !
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Hey LIVIT i am in the same boat as you brother. Shooting with a injury from the military that affects my whole body. I also currently have a springier and am looking into getting into pcp's. What GAMO do you currently have?"LIVIT"Smaug tks brother, I am really on the edge as to which way to go. I have a messed up spine and legs due to a injury in the military. I am concerned about the efforts required to use a hand pump. Lucky for me the airgun club I am joining THAGC here in NC has a good group of guys who are going to let me shoot their FT guns and I am sure one of them has a hand pump I can try out. Fussel (jimmy) just emailed me and told me about renting filled air tanks. I might be able to get tanks filled at the VA Hospital where I work at too
I am really try to absorb all the info on PCP shooting and do appreciate any pointers yall could send my way...tks.... Dale
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Hey brother, gamo fusion mach 1 .22 . that has a stock with the sharp edges ! I work at the VA Hospital and have been involved with an organization called Healing waters. Who teach disabled vets to fly fish along with how to tie flies and make their own rods. Its a well sponsored and successful program. I have been thinking about something like this using air rifles. Since so many of our vets have PTSD and other injuries, plus the safety factor. I though that they would really enjoy shooting air rifles. Maybe I could get a club going here for them to be involved in. Just something else to take their minds off all the other BS they are dealing with. But first I need to be very informed on all this and I am sure alot of the airgun community would help me.
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Haven't some folks with PTSD been known to go berserk and start killing people, thinking they're back in the war zone? Better consider that a little more, as airguns can be lethal and might remind folks of other recent times they've had a gun in their hands.
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Yes, but those brothers/sisters are on the very extreme edge. Anything could set them off. I was thinking more on the other vets with physical disabilities. I talked with several of my friends at the VA Mental health dept. and one of them pointed out Wounded Warriors as an example. They take these same vets hunting for deer, pigs etc.. with no problems. She told me normally those who are that affected are loaners and a club would not be appealing to them. Lets be fair, someone could show up who is anti guns and blow us all up at any shooting event. I know that is a morbid way to think, but I work in federal law enforcement and anti-terrorism is my back ground.
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I started with the Hammerli 850. Awesome gun for the money. Still have it and still love to shoot it. Then went straight to PCP's. Hatsan's, then FX's and now RAW. I'm a bit of an accuracy freak.
Smaug, is that the new Air Venturi tank you have on your Hammerli? Who did you get to do the HPA conversion?
Smaug, is that the new Air Venturi tank you have on your Hammerli? Who did you get to do the HPA conversion?
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The 850s seem to be really well-made, and from good parts.
No, it can't be the new AirVenturi, because it's older. I bought the gun privately, and the previous owner bought it from Roald, who runs www.the850store.com
As far as I know, the conversion consisted of a stock 850, an action tune, changing the hammer spring to something appropriate for HPA, then putting that regulated tank on it, whose output is 1100 psi. Only complaint is that it seems to only shoot the 14.3 gr. JSBs really accurately.
A couple guys at my club have RAWs now; having sold off their Steyr LG110s for them. They're beautiful and accurate, pretty much flawless guns. (unless you need a repeater or something lightweight)
Edit: I just remember, the seller of this gun is a member here: BigTinBoat. He can give you the background. I was comfortable enough with the background to buy it, but I'll be damned if I can recall the details, hehehe.
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Never mind... This is wrong on every level but I don't want to drag the topic of course so...
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As the Swiss (who have guns in almost every home) say: "You don't need better gun control, you need better social control."
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