Are pcp guns really quieter than rimfire?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Guys, you can't compare the noise from a 22 rimfire from an automatic action to a airgun with a sealed action. Even if a 10/22's bolt won't open far enough to cycle subsonic ammo, it does open enough to let the noise out.

Apples to apples would be:

a) Neither gun is silenced in any way
b) Similar energy level.

In the above comparison, the only difference in noise would be whether there is more noise from the air compressed behind the pellet suddenly escaping or from the burning gases from the powderburner.

It has been many moons since I've shot a subsonic .22LR. It was my great uncle's Marlin 39A lever action, with .22 Shorts. I think that was 30 gr. at about 1050 fps. (73 FPE) It was MUCH quieter than an un-shrouded .22 cal. PCP air rifle shooting at similar energy. All I could hear was the hammer spring, and I could only hear that because the gun was in intimate contact with my head. I believe their marketing claim by the ammo manufacturers. I'm not sure about the accuracy, and legality probably varies by state and country.
 
Upvote 0
"sharroff"The CCI CB Longs significantly quieter than the CCI Quiet-22's out of my .22 LRs. The CCI CB Longs (which I haven't seen for a long time) are in the range of bullet hitting target being louder than the gunshot. I shoot them out of bolt action .22's as they don't even have enough evergy to cycle the action on my semi autos, They are loud out of short pistols though.

My .22LR with CB Longs is much much stealthier than my Airwolf w/o a silencer (37 fpe). Silencer on and they are about the same with an edge to the Airwolf.


Click to expand...
24 hours later and it's still surprising to me. It would mean that for someone with a license to legally own a firearms silencer, they could use their 22lr to plink like it was an air rifle in towns that allow it. 

There is a difference between the measurable noise level and the perceived noise though. To some extent, the pitch of the noise is more important than the db reading. If the noise sounded like a hair dryer, even if it was super loud, nobody would call the police. If it sounds like a gun shot, even a quiet one, a certain type of neighbor might call the police on you. 

68db (if their advertising is truthful) is quieter than any 22 pcp gun I own with or without baffles. It might still sound louder to the shooter though as gun shots are a threatening noise. My shrouded 22 pcp guns just make a ping or a puff sound. My neighbors don't even look up to see where the noise came from. The mice only look up to see who farted.

my guess is that the makers of those Quiet bullets have never heard a decent PCP gun. They are probably comparing it to one of those awful $80 "magnum springers" from Walmart which sound like someone dropping a piano out of a 3rd floor window. You could get better performance than some of those air rifles by spitting the pellet through a straw. 
 
Upvote 0
I picked up 3 boxes of the CCI quiet 22 lr ammo I shoot them in my back yard out of my late fathers old Mossberg bolt action. I love them. They are quieter than my 22 cal discovery by a good bit. From my back deck to the fence line its 38 yards I can hit soda cans all day long.off the picket fence rail. Try them in a bolt action rifle , also I chronographed them and they ran 705 to 720 fps.They were $3.88 per box of 50. They allso make a quiet version with a segmented bullet but I have't seen any for sale yet.My Remington CBee 22 longs are noticably louder than these CCis. I don't know how they did it, perhaps a faster powder but they are for real. Try em.
 
Upvote 0
My Stevens Favorite 22 (falling block action, long fairly heavy barrel) with Colibri CBs is quieter than my very quiet pcp. It is also wimpier. Fun to shoot just because it is so absurdly quiet. For an idea of the sound, pull the cork out of a wine bottle and stick it back in about 1/4 inch. Pulling the cork out the second time is about what it sounds like. I think the Colibris have a listed velocity of 480 fps. Other brands of subsonic 22 ammo range from pretty quiet to pretty loud.
 
Upvote 0
I've used Quiet-22s and CB Longs and Shorts in my old BRNO Model 2E bolt action 16 1/2" barrel.

With a silencer, they are a little quieter than my Airwolf with silencer.

I find them a little less accurate and consistent than standard subs. I've come to the conclusion that this is because standard .22LR barrels don't have quite enough twist to stabilise the slower bullets.
 
Upvote 0
"MarkUK"I've used Quiet-22s and CB Longs and Shorts in my old BRNO Model 2E bolt action 16 1/2" barrel.

With a silencer, they are a little quieter than my Airwolf with silencer.

I find them a little less accurate and consistent than standard subs. I've come to the conclusion that this is because standard .22LR barrels don't have quite enough twist to stabilise the slower bullets.
Click to expand...
I thought most 22 RF barrels had a 1:16 twist rate vs 1:18 or 1:17 for air rifle barrels. Is that little difference enough to make the slower RF bullets unstable? Air rifles can definitely be stable at slightly slower speeds. 

I have often wondered if RF barrel blanks and air rifle barrel blanks could be interchangeable. The bore diameter looks to be identical with the LW blanks. 
 
Upvote 0
"X27"
quiet_22_longrifle.jpg
 FEATURES & BENEFITS
  • Ultra-quiet plinking round in 22-caliber LR rifles
  • 75% reduction in perceived noise of standard velocity .22 LR
  • Standard CCI .22 LR case
  • Excellent accuracy and low velocity (710 feet per second)
  • Better performance than an air rifle with similar noise levels
  • No hearing protection required
  • Great for backyard plinking and introducing youth to the shooting sports
  • Ideal for legal shooting areas where noise may be a concern




Better performance than an air rifle with similar noise levels

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahagagagaghahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
I needed a good laugh
That's funny stuff
Click to expand...
710 FPS with a 40 Gr is decent muzzle energy (someone can calculate that) and that beats any of my break barrels for energy, Definitely doesnt compare to high powered PCPs though.
 
Upvote 0
"zebra"
"MarkUK"I've used Quiet-22s and CB Longs and Shorts in my old BRNO Model 2E bolt action 16 1/2" barrel.

With a silencer, they are a little quieter than my Airwolf with silencer.

I find them a little less accurate and consistent than standard subs. I've come to the conclusion that this is because standard .22LR barrels don't have quite enough twist to stabilise the slower bullets.
Click to expand...
I thought most 22 RF barrels had a 1:16 twist rate vs 1:18 or 1:17 for air rifle barrels. Is that little difference enough to make the slower RF bullets unstable? Air rifles can definitely be stable at slightly slower speeds. 

I have often wondered if RF barrel blanks and air rifle barrel blanks could be interchangeable. The bore diameter looks to be identical with the LW blanks.
Click to expand...
The RF barrel might have a slightly faster twist but the pellet rifle is usually shooting much lighter pellets than the heavy bullets used in the subsonic and quiet RF rounds. The longer, heavier and slower a bullet is the faster the twist needs to be to stabilize it. Pellets are also drag stabilized and conventional bullets are not.
 
Upvote 0
In my 22 rf ,s i use eley subsonic very quiet until you hit a rabbit with it,,if any of the uk guys remember the original founders of venom arms,ivan hancock and dave pope,they shortened and re threaded a few rimfires for me and they reccomended using pistol ammo 22lr,as it was designed to burn completely in short listol barrels,back to airguns!! Its possible to get them very quiet,my fx bobcat at 41 ft lbs was stupid quiet with a small piece of ballistic foam ab an inch long in the front of the shroud,and with a hogun decimeater very quiet,and as for edguns ive always found the actions very loud compared to a lot of pcp,s
Rgds steve
 
Upvote 0
"LDP"
"zebra"
"MarkUK"I've used Quiet-22s and CB Longs and Shorts in my old BRNO Model 2E bolt action 16 1/2" barrel.

With a silencer, they are a little quieter than my Airwolf with silencer.

I find them a little less accurate and consistent than standard subs. I've come to the conclusion that this is because standard .22LR barrels don't have quite enough twist to stabilise the slower bullets.
Click to expand...
I thought most 22 RF barrels had a 1:16 twist rate vs 1:18 or 1:17 for air rifle barrels. Is that little difference enough to make the slower RF bullets unstable? Air rifles can definitely be stable at slightly slower speeds. 

I have often wondered if RF barrel blanks and air rifle barrel blanks could be interchangeable. The bore diameter looks to be identical with the LW blanks.
Click to expand...
The RF barrel might have a slightly faster twist but the pellet rifle is usually shooting much lighter pellets than the heavy bullets used in the subsonic and quiet RF rounds. The longer, heavier and slower a bullet is the faster the twist needs to be to stabilize it. Pellets are also drag stabilized and conventional bullets are not.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of pellets that are more than 40gr. The 25 cal Eun Jin pellets are 43gr and .30 pellets are at least that weight. 25 and 30 cal air rifle barrels still have the same twist rate. 

I don't know what the deal is but if I had to guess why they aren't accurate past 40 yards, I would say that the energy is a little low for that weight of projectile. I would guess that the difference in twist rates is not enough to cause such a difference in accuracy at the short ranges we are talking about (if there was enough power). 

I typically use 43gr Eun Jin pellets in unusually powerful air rifles like my two Career 707 25 cals. One puts out 90-100fpe and the other (my carbine) puts out 60fpe. This is obviously high for a 25 cal so the heavy pellets are needed to keep it subsonic. Those 22 cal quiet RF rounds deliver approx 35fpe which is comparable to an average 22 cal pcp but the projectile is far heavier. 

I can't think of many (if any) 22 pellets that weigh 40gr. If there were, I would want more power than you get in your typical 22 pcp. 

I can do a meaningful experiment with my Career 707 using it's power wheel which allows me to adjust the speed with 43gr pellets from over 1000fps to under 200. On the lowest setting, they barely reach the end of my garden. Accuracy is ok on full power. They start to lose accuracy at anything below 75% power.

The issue is magnified with those RF bullets because they aren't drag stabilized like the diabolo pellets (at least they don't look like that have skirts in the pic).

I have bunch of 25 cal cast bullets ranging from 50gr to 58gr. I have never been able to achieve decent accuracy with any of them past 40 yards from an air rifle. I assumed that they needed more power but I guess a slightly faster twist rate couldn't hurt too. The few 257 pcp guns I have seen that were accurate at 100 yards) were far more powerful than anything I own. From memory, they didn't have barrels with unusually fast twist rates.

Those quiet rounds might perform better with light projectiles or even skirted ammo. They might not be as quiet though. It would be interesting to see how they did with a 1:14 or 1:12 barrel. I'd like to test my PCP rifles with a faster TR with cast ammo too.

The only test I saw on twist rates was done by Tom Gaylord in his PA blog but he only used diabolo pellets.
 
Upvote 0
My Condor .257 barrel is 1:14 and it will work with up to about 100 gr bullets at 900 to 1000 fps. A 1:17+ twist of a regular condor barrel will not stabilize a bullet as long as the 100 gr but does great at 63 gr length.

The .22 subsonic I have are stated at about 710 fps with a 34 gr projectile giving about 38 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.
They fall between my Compatto in .25 with Silencer and my Condor .25 with silencer in sound level.

Thurmond
 
Upvote 0
"T3PRanch"My Condor .257 barrel is 1:14 and it will work with up to about 100 gr bullets at 900 to 1000 fps. A 1:17+ twist of a regular condor barrel will not stabilize a bullet as long as the 100 gr but does great at 63 gr length.

The .22 subsonic I have are stated at about 710 fps with a 34 gr projectile giving about 38 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.
They fall between my Compatto in .25 with Silencer and my Condor .25 with silencer in sound level.

Thurmond
Click to expand...
Thanks for the added info. like I said in my previous post to zebra it doesnt take much change in the twist rate to adversely effect the stabilization of a bullet when you are working with slow heavy bullets. You experienced it first hand and only 3" difference in twist cut the weight of usable bullet almost in half. I am not saying thats going to be the reason for worse accuracy in every 22 RF using sub sonic ammo but it can be a contributing factor. But now we are getting of topic;)
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu