In UK there is talk of banning lead ammunition? Where do airgun users stand in this situation? . Has there been any activity in this connection with other countries?
Feel we need the facts.
safe shootng
Feel we need the facts.
safe shootng
Are lead pellets being banned
- Thread starter wolfie
- Start date
The EU is supposed to take a decision in '22-'23. What is discussed is a transition period of a few years, with some exception for sport shooting or indoor shooting, as long as the lead can be recovered ('bullet traps'). See the details here (in English), under "proposed restrictions". Fishing is concerned as well.
JSB is already working on lead-free slugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UIKMXEh1NE
And then COVID came... We'll probably have some news in the next months.
JSB is already working on lead-free slugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UIKMXEh1NE
And then COVID came... We'll probably have some news in the next months.
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In the US there have been several attacks on lead ammo, mostly targeting powder burners, but written in such a way that lead pellets would be included. (Lead is, after all, lead...). Nothing has gained any traction yet. Expect quality lead-free pellets to cost at least 3x more and cheap lead-free pellets to suck.
GsT
GsT
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I shoot lead free since I do a lot of shooting in my house. Lead free pellets in 22 already cost too much and are nearly impossible to find due to covid.
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California of course has a lead ban, but only for "firearms and ammunition". Pellets are specifically exempt from the law, in which it stated pellet guns are not firearms and pellets are not firearm ammunition. So for now...
Hopefully any bans that come in other areas will except pellets (or any airgun projectile) as well.
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I think that the current prices are more related to the actual size of the market than the cost of the matter. I expect that the EU will do the shift because of all the reasons detailed in the document I mentioned. Probably the most reluctant will be the hunters, particularly the French ones because the biggest population of hunters in EU is in France and they are usually not appreciating the EU whatever the EU does.
If the market is massively switching to lead free, the prices should drop. It will also force some suppliers to either quit the pellet market or to invest and improve their tooling to deliver better products.
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there are no facts anymore .. your masters will tell you what you can have and thats that ..
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I fee like a number of states in the US banned lead shot in shotguns about 30 years ago.. but maybe I misremember and it was just talk..
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Yes, they did. I know for sure that lead shot is banned in South Dakota where I have hunted pheasant since the 1970’s.
This post is of great value for awareness.
RWS, one of the primary pellet producers, is a German/EU company. Which means they may need to stop producing lead pellets if the legislation goes through. If you look at their website, much of the ammunition is already listed as, ‘green.’
https://rws-ammunition.com/en
I suspect that competition grade barrels can be specifically designed to shoot tin (or other metals) pellets- breech, rifling, twist, crown, etc. If nothing else, there will be an increase in cost for the pellet.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/look-future-lead-free-pellets/
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Interesting . Guess we should find out before splashing out on new guns how our barrels will cope? Will the military , police etc be exempt?
safe shooting
safe shooting
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Another attack with no "actual" evidence that there is an issue, we have been drinking water flowing though lead pipes all our lives!
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Unfortunately, no. It's not a matter of volume, it's a matter of material. A higher BC is desirable, and BC is directly proportional to mass. That makes lead a nearly ideal substance - soft on barrels, cheap, and heavy. Check out the substitutes: most are very light, meaning very low performance. Substitute materials (such as bismuth and tungsten) that might rival lead for mass are much, much, much more expensive, no matter how many you make. Oh, and that material cost will probably keep volumes low, exacerbating the problem.
The "lead ban" in many states applies only to waterfowl hunting, upland game birds and the like can still be taken with lead. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but they are just that. To my comment above, go price some bismuth or tungsten shot...
GsT
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Some numbers from my euro / metric world:
- lead is currently at 1.75€ for 1kg on material markets.
- a 500 pellet tin of pellets weighting 1g, hence half a kilo of material, is about 8€ before tax.
Hence the material cost in the finished product is 15-20% of the final price. Everything else will stay the same (but for tooling amortization and R&D costs).
Once a competitor is able to get back to the same price logic, the finished product will have an increased price but my bet is that it will be less than twice the current price of lead pellets. Or course I can be completely wrong ;-)
- lead is currently at 1.75€ for 1kg on material markets.
- a 500 pellet tin of pellets weighting 1g, hence half a kilo of material, is about 8€ before tax.
Hence the material cost in the finished product is 15-20% of the final price. Everything else will stay the same (but for tooling amortization and R&D costs).
Once a competitor is able to get back to the same price logic, the finished product will have an increased price but my bet is that it will be less than twice the current price of lead pellets. Or course I can be completely wrong ;-)
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We can look at the cost of bismuth and tungsten shot (the two "good" lead alternatives that I'm aware of) and see that cost has not come down nearly to lead prices. (I was going to try to throw together some numbers, but the current market (at least in the U.S.) is all out of whack with nothing available and sellers pricing as if the shot were made of gold (another excellent lead substitute!) Airgun pellets are a much smaller market so I'd be very surprised (though pleasantly so) if pricing ever approached that of lead. What I suspect *will* happen is that lighter alloy pellets will dominate the market at a competitive price and there will be a handful of premium pellets rivaling the weight of lead, but at very premium prices.
GsT
GsT
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SqrlHntr
Member
FWIW, Ive been shooting gto’s in one gun and and have not seen anything bad so far. 6 tins (1200 rds) of .22 through a 12” LW full choke. They do flake rather than smear which does build up a little. For fun i recently ran a few lead pellets through and it still shot spot on. Pushed one through and it still looks the same as when just broken in.
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Your barrel wont last long shooting bismuth or tungsten through it unless its encased in a sabot...
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Just remember that everyone can not be arrested. If a small percentage of people refuse a law then it's unenforceable. Here in the USA the government is employed by the people and we control them. So do your part, freedom isn't free.
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I believe that it’s just a matter of time! First it was removed from gasoline in the early 70’s and then the water fowl hunters had to go with steel shot ! Then close to my home in Missouri condemned the lead mine . I know that it’s very toxic, when my friend sold his sporting clays and game farm the EPA removed several truck loads of soil and trees (very costly). At all the sporting clay stations all the trees and ground plants were dead as far as the lead shotgun blast carried! So I know that it’s very toxic so maybe not in our life time but someday in the not so far future. I don’t believe that it’s political but a matter of public health.
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Maybe moving to something else than lead will bring some unexpected things. For instance I have made tests with the JSB Exact lead free (.22) and they seem to group very well at supersonic speed. Their skirts are much more regular than lead pellets, my guess is that the alloy is much harder than lead so they don't get damaged during transportation and handling: each pellet is a clone of the others, while with lead pellets there are always very small dents, always different from a pellet to the other.
I shot the lead free with a RTI Prophet with its barrel that requires high speeds to have a good gyroscopic effect, I was setup for JSB Monster Redesigned and having different pellets at hand I also shot the lead free. Because of the added noise and since I shoot in my backyard I can't go supersonic too often. Maybe I'll do more tests later in the season (when the neighbors will retreat into their home instead of spending their days in their gardens) but if someone has the opportunity to do such a test, it would be nice to confirm this. For instance I would be curious to see what is the maximum speed that can be reached and still have groups.
I shot the lead free with a RTI Prophet with its barrel that requires high speeds to have a good gyroscopic effect, I was setup for JSB Monster Redesigned and having different pellets at hand I also shot the lead free. Because of the added noise and since I shoot in my backyard I can't go supersonic too often. Maybe I'll do more tests later in the season (when the neighbors will retreat into their home instead of spending their days in their gardens) but if someone has the opportunity to do such a test, it would be nice to confirm this. For instance I would be curious to see what is the maximum speed that can be reached and still have groups.
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