RAW Rapid Are higher powered PCP's more difficult to shoot accurately?

[Gear_Junkie]

I've been shooting my 22cal RAW quite a bit the past six months. I've found a couple really good pellet/speed combos, shooting 25.4gr Rangemasters at 805fps or Monster Lights at 885fps. It's shooting around 35fpe. More power than this would cause the gun to jump a bit. I've also found what seems like the best way to rest the rifle. I've tried multiple rests, bags, and bipods, and various combos. The most accurate combo seems to be with a bipod out front and a lab lift under the grip. I've also tried various ways of holding the gun in this position. The most accurate appears to be with very light pressure on the grip and butt, and with a very light cheek rest. If I do everything perfect, the rifle will produce 1/2" groups at 50 yards.

Honestly, it's a complete PITA to get the very best groups out of this rifle. It's almost like shooting a springer. And it's not a light gun that easily shifts around - it's a 13lb beast the way it's set up.

My 177cal RAW can be shot rested a bunch of different ways and easily produce 1/2" 50yd groups (assuming the wind isn't messing things up). I also had a Daystate Regal and it was the same way - accuracy didn't change depending on how the gun was held.

My question is this - is it common for higher powered guns to be hold-sensitive to get the best accuracy out of them?

 

[blueflax]

I have found that I have had to change mt left hand grip on my FX Boss. I now place my left hand on top of the stock between the cheek piece and the butt plate. Prior to that I had used the hold similar to the one described in the OP.

Ron

 

[Gerry52]

I mainly hunt/pest, no paper. My most stable position is sitting cross-legged using a 13-27" tall bipod. Holding gun as lightly as I can with fewest contact points as possible gives the most accuracy. Same if I'm using a tripod, light contact at the fewest points. The majority of times my left hand isn't touching the gun. I shoot on the exhale & in between heartbeats when possible (With my FX Boss, .30) Just in the past year I started shooting thumb up (not through thumbhole in grip) for those shots that require an extra 1/8" of accuracy or longer distances. I've noticed a marked difference (for the better) .
Never answered your original question; I do find my Boss requires more from me & technique than do my .22 & .25. ANY gun with more reaction will require more from the shooter. Mine isn't a difficult gun to shoot accurately, per se, it just requires more attention & focus on my part.

 

[mercado]

The problem is the distance between the block where the barrel starts to come out to the tip of the barrel is to much, if the barrel was 1" thick it wouldn't be a problem.. the heavier the projectile , the harmonics go nuts n since most guns use bottles now is near to impossible to get a proprietary metal barrel band. But is not only your gun almost all guns with the same design faces the same problem. I fixed mine in the uragans tensioning the barrel + adding a barrel band, only now they work flawless n could handle even heavier slugs than before..
Beautiful Raw ..

 

[gxs]

I can get 5 pellets in one hole (as long as the wind or my nerves last) with most of my guns but yes, each one of them has a specific grip it wants to maintain.
FX Crown = thumb up and trigger in the center of the pad of the finger, one hand under the gun, light shoulder mount
Daystate Delta wolf = one hand on the scope and a firm shoulder mount, finger doesn't matter
DRS Tactical = firm grip, light shoulder, trigger in the middle

And so on... I usually mess up the first shot because I tend to forget but then quickly remember the preferred position of the gun.
It's similar to ammo choice. For some odd reason my Daystate is really pellet picky while my Crown can shoot french fries or peas in the same hole.

 

[Vetmx]

This is why I always used to preach to newbies, work your way up from slow to fast when tuning your new gun. When you do, you’ll understand when your particular combo starts to get a little nutty. It also helps guys understand how a PCP and adjustments work and influence things. Guys migrating from springers or real guns are nerve blind to how much their maxed out PCP is not helping their shooting.

But in some cases we have no choice but to go there when chasing what a projectile likes. But at least you understand some things that may be messing with your consistency.

 

[TMH]

The FX Crown will always hold a special place in my heart as it was the first airgun where I achieved, to the best of my abilities, the sought-after 'harmonic tune.' Upon reaching this state, the gun was so much more forgiving, so much easier to shoot accurately/reproducibly, and so much more pleasant to shoot.

I so often receive a used gun where the previous owner has maxxed everything out in order to try and achieve the maximum power. More power = better is too often 'the American way.' But the gun shoots horribly harsh and doesn't group worth poope. But it sure is making plenty of power, for the few shots you can take before needing to refill.

As said above by Vetmx (one of those folks on this site who have forgotten more about airguns than I will ever know), sometimes one will need to reach high power levels with heavy ammo for their airgun shooting tasks, whether for hunting or maybe longer range target shooting. But with great power comes great responsibility. Your gun will not shoot well 'easily' and you will need to understand its needs (regarding hold) and stay on top of that for every shot.

Me? I'm a lazy shooter and like it more where the gun is balanced in its tune, and forgives me for my (shooting technique) sins...

 

[6gun]

I've been shooting my 22cal RAW quite a bit the past six months. I've found a couple really good pellet/speed combos, shooting 25.4gr Rangemasters at 805fps or Monster Lights at 885fps. It's shooting around 35fpe. More power than this would cause the gun to jump a bit. I've also found what seems like the best way to rest the rifle. I've tried multiple rests, bags, and bipods, and various combos. The most accurate combo seems to be with a bipod out front and a lab lift under the grip. I've also tried various ways of holding the gun in this position. The most accurate appears to be with very light pressure on the grip and butt, and with a very light cheek rest. If I do everything perfect, the rifle will produce 1/2" groups at 50 yards.

Honestly, it's a complete PITA to get the very best groups out of this rifle. It's almost like shooting a springer. And it's not a light gun that easily shifts around - it's a 13lb beast the way it's set up.

View attachment 572404

My 177cal RAW can be shot rested a bunch of different ways and easily produce 1/2" 50yd groups (assuming the wind isn't messing things up). I also had a Daystate Regal and it was the same way - accuracy didn't change depending on how the gun was held.

My question is this - is it common for higher powered guns to be hold-sensitive to get the best accuracy out of them?

I don't find that to be the case. Higher performance just seems to make them more velocity or pellet picky because you can easily send them too fast.

Both these guns love jsb mrd pellets, the fx is set up for slugs where the raw is mostly set up for pellets but does like light h&n slugs. They will show you if you tilt the rifle a bit raw is tuned around 50 fpe the impact is dialed all the way down at the same power level with a slug liner. The raw is less finicky about staying precise

 

[6gun]

I shoot in funny quickly obtained positions most of the time and typically lean against something and support the bottle with my hand which is against the post for 100 yard shots. That or I'm on a leather glove on top of my welder out the shop door. Fwiw

 

[RobBonnell89]

This is why I always used to preach to newbies, work your way up from slow to fast when tuning your new gun. When you do, you’ll understand when your particular combo starts to get a little nutty. It also helps guys understand how a PCP and adjustments work and influence things. Guys migrating from springers or real guns are nerve blind to how much their maxed out PCP is not helping their shooting.

But in some cases we have no choice but to go there when chasing what a projectile likes. But at least you understand some things that may be messing with your consistency.

Haha a little nutty, I like that wording. Good tip on starting out slow. Guns do seem to get angry( as I call it) or nutty once you push them past a certain point. Then they just aren’t quite the same to shoot. Always finding that balance point or preference

Rob

 

[boscoebrea]

I do find that hand position can make a difference. I can lock my hand on hold or loosen my grip, and I can also adjust where I put my support hand. Sometimes, it's about being comfortable.I think once you are sure what hand position is comfortable and works the best, you can adjust the scope for it. Scope adjustment is the last thing you do after getting the best groups. That is my take as of now.

 

[Ranchibi]

I too shoot my RAW off a front bipod with a rear lab rest...accuracy is dependent on me doing my part for a consistent hold and sight. Mine is tuned to shoot JSB 18gr @ 970fps about 37fpe.

 

[Trucker3573]

This is why I always used to preach to newbies, work your way up from slow to fast when tuning your new gun. When you do, you’ll understand when your particular combo starts to get a little nutty. It also helps guys understand how a PCP and adjustments work and influence things. Guys migrating from springers or real guns are nerve blind to how much their maxed out PCP is not helping their shooting.

But in some cases we have no choice but to go there when chasing what a projectile likes. But at least you understand some things that may be messing with your consistency.

This is great advice. It’s funny this thread comes up as I am working on this right now with my alpha wolf .25. I had a tune in it that was pushing 33.95 in the high 890’s to just over 900. Was struggling with good groups. Decided what the heck I will put it in factory tune mode and set the speed to 880. Groups tightened up like crazy once the gun found that speed. Was only 15-20 fps slower but much milder and even sounded better. I have a feeling my 900 tune is a bit aggressive and wasting air. The lower factory tune def indicates that. Higher tunes def induce more movement in the gun but if not balanced well will cause other problems. Groups look like the upper two left with the milder tune. The low shots in first were the gun finding velocity. Started stacking at 51 yards when it did. My custom tune groups err were bad as seen on the orange sticker target. Lower middle target was also shot with milder factory setting. Had the one get away from me but that was totally me.

 

[mercado]

I've been shooting my 22cal RAW quite a bit the past six months. I've found a couple really good pellet/speed combos, shooting 25.4gr Rangemasters at 805fps or Monster Lights at 885fps. It's shooting around 35fpe. More power than this would cause the gun to jump a bit. I've also found what seems like the best way to rest the rifle. I've tried multiple rests, bags, and bipods, and various combos. The most accurate combo seems to be with a bipod out front and a lab lift under the grip. I've also tried various ways of holding the gun in this position. The most accurate appears to be with very light pressure on the grip and butt, and with a very light cheek rest. If I do everything perfect, the rifle will produce 1/2" groups at 50 yards.

Honestly, it's a complete PITA to get the very best groups out of this rifle. It's almost like shooting a springer. And it's not a light gun that easily shifts around - it's a 13lb beast the way it's set up.

View attachment 572404

My 177cal RAW can be shot rested a bunch of different ways and easily produce 1/2" 50yd groups (assuming the wind isn't messing things up). I also had a Daystate Regal and it was the same way - accuracy didn't change depending on how the gun was held.

My question is this - is it common for higher powered guns to be hold-sensitive to get the best accuracy out of them?

Gerald in south Africa.. has alot of moderators, he sometimes use the weight if the moderator to tune the harmonics, you will see some of his high power slug buids using a Ronin, not particularly pretty or quiet but the Ronin is a heavy ass moderator to tame that barrel jump when the heavy slug goes out. That could be a solution in your case maybe a YOKOZUNA since like the Impulse could be change in size .. the YOKOZUNA weight 5 time more than the Impulse.

 

[Gear_Junkie]

View attachment 572448
I too shoot my RAW off a front bipod with a rear lab rest...accuracy is dependent on me doing my part for a consistent hold and sight. Mine is tuned to shoot JSB 18gr @ 970fps about 37fpe.

Your setup is the one that I copied . I bought the top pad and bottom pads that you recommended, but I cheaped out a bit and got a lower cost lift.

This setup definitely help with consistency.

 

[Gear_Junkie]

This is why I always used to preach to newbies, work your way up from slow to fast when tuning your new gun. When you do, you’ll understand when your particular combo starts to get a little nutty. It also helps guys understand how a PCP and adjustments work and influence things. Guys migrating from springers or real guns are nerve blind to how much their maxed out PCP is not helping their shooting.

But in some cases we have no choice but to go there when chasing what a projectile likes. But at least you understand some things that may be messing with your consistency.

Definitely solid advice! I did try numerous projectiles, reg pressures, and light and heavy hammers to try and get the rig as efficient as possible. I then went slightly up and down in energy with the best projectiles to figure out the sweet spot. Like someone below mentioned... I think maybe I need to fine tune the harmonics to see if it helps the situation.

 

[Gear_Junkie]

Gerald in south Africa.. has alot of moderators, he sometimes use the weight if the moderator to tune the harmonics, you will see some of his high power slug buids using a Ronin, not particularly pretty or quiet but the Ronin is a heavy ass moderator to tame that barrel jump when the heavy slug goes out. That could be a solution in your case maybe a YOKOZUNA since like the Impulse could be change in size .. the YOKOZUNA weight 5 time more than the Impulse.

Great idea - I think playing with harmonics might be my next step in improving things. I have tried several different moderators (including no moderator), and I didn't notice any differences... but then again they are all pretty close in weight. I have a couple Limbsaver Barrel Deresonators. I might play with these and see if helps...

 

[Gear_Junkie]

Thanks to everyone for all of the experiences and ideas, I really appreciate it!

 

[6gun]

Haha a little nutty, I like that wording. Good tip on starting out slow. Guns do seem to get angry( as I call it) or nutty once you push them past a certain point. Then they just aren’t quite the same to shoot. Always finding that balance point or preference

Rob

This is what I did to my impact. It was just harsh. Sure you can make stuff work way up in it's performance envelope, but at what cost.....(fortunate son playing in my head as I have a flashback to all the work)

That's why I didn't push the raw further. I've had these perfect tunes a few times and spoiled them in myPcp career and I knew that THAT gun was in its happy place.

A word to the lurkers who haven't gone crazy tuner yet :
A harmonically tuned gun working right at the middle of its potential performance envelope is worth it's weight in gold, don't fixate in a certain velocity or energy numbers if it's using the projectile you want and it's super precise and consistent..... Unless you're very dedicated to getting something nutty to work right. (vetmx for sure has, and I have too) ya I have a 55-75 fpe 22 impact now.... I can't shoot in most of my scenarios due to its power and it's not as enjoyable as it was in a 20-50fpe trim. I don't shoot any farther ranges and it takes my quarry all the same as it did when it was was forgiving and buttery smooth.(the entirety of the shot event)

 

[jps2486]

Try moving your bipod rearward.