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Are all guns accurate?
- Thread starter Crabbypatties
- Start date
Well my opinion is that not all guns can shoot the same, not even close. I have a couple of PCPs that will make a .22 cal hole with .177 pellets all day long (not exaggerating) at 10m shooting from a rest. I have also tried to 'fix' a .22 break barrel that could barely make 10 shots stay in 2 inches at 10m. Lacking a better definition, one end of this is good and one end of this is not good. Aka bad. The difference was so drastic that even me shooting offhand would see a significant difference (and I'm pretty bad shooting offhand).
"When I say "accurate" I mean hit what you aim at!"
Well if you always hit what you aim at, you're either shooting at live targets responsibly, or shooting at stationary targets that aren't challenging enough. Put some high magnification sights and aim at a small enough target and you will definitely miss. Furthermore, you should develop the skill over time to know when you held the aim properly and the shot missed because of equipment vs. when you don't have a good hold or trigger pull or wind read and it was the shooter.
There are less drastic examples but the difference from rifle to rifle is very real. It just takes a suitably controlled environment and enough good data.
"When I say "accurate" I mean hit what you aim at!"
Well if you always hit what you aim at, you're either shooting at live targets responsibly, or shooting at stationary targets that aren't challenging enough. Put some high magnification sights and aim at a small enough target and you will definitely miss. Furthermore, you should develop the skill over time to know when you held the aim properly and the shot missed because of equipment vs. when you don't have a good hold or trigger pull or wind read and it was the shooter.
There are less drastic examples but the difference from rifle to rifle is very real. It just takes a suitably controlled environment and enough good data.
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Lol it’s a strategy game! Ever wonder why the attendants can always perform the games? They perfected the strategy or they know which gun to pick
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Might have been the optic couldn’t take the recoil.? I did better with the gas piston break barrels more manageable
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Actually it was a gas ram, one of those Benjamin Nitro pistons. And changing sights did not fix the problem. I changed trigger internals, scope and bases, cleaned the barrel, checked the internals for issues, and it never did better. Sometimes junk is junk.
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That’s perfectly fine obviously. We just , by and large , we’re not necessarily on the same page. You have cleared up much. Now by this measure, most barrels will fit the bill. Comes down to consistently powered rounds, and shooter skills, which you seem to have in hand.
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I've had a couple that were not. I've had 5 factory .22 crosman barrels for either 13xx or 22xx that were all lousy shooters. Factory hatsan .177 on my nova star was beyond irritating. Had all manner of high and low spots in the bore. Shot great for 3 or 4 shots, then sent one flying off course. Rinse and repeat.
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Perhaps, but what's the cost of making a crap gun accurate. A perfect example would be common scenario from a popular rimfire forum. I know that's not air rifles but hang on. I'm using this as an example that applies to air rifles. Anyway some people there brag about their sub MOA Ruger 1022s. Now most factory 1022s are complete crap. They're made to function and hit beer cans at 25 yards. And you're lucky if you get better than that. They're a lot like a box store break barrels.
When you ask the guy what's in his 1022 to make it shoot sub MOA. He tells you about a $1000 of aftermarket pieces including the trigger, stock, barrel, etc, etc. The only original part might be the receiver. So for twelve hundred dollars he's got an accurate 1022. It's just as much a Ruger 1022 as an Oldsmobile tube frame, carbon fiber bodied funny car running a Chrysler Hemi engine is an Oldsmobile.
My point is accuracy can very often be improved on many platforms but not all can be made accurate without replacing all the parts. The cost of which could be impractical. Like the $1200 sub MOA 1022. The same $1200 could get you a much better complete gun. Or two. There's simply a practical accuracy limit on each specific rifle. That limit is determined by your talent and budget.
The again if you're definition of "accurate" is hitting beer cans at 25 yards then you're probably right.
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I think that all air rifles are inherently accurate. The caveats are that you need to find the correct projectile (diameter and weight) for a specific distance. For some guns, that distance may only be 10 feet, like my son's Daisy Buck BB gun. Now if you want precision thrown in there you may be limiting yourself even further as the two windows need to overlap.
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I am confident that finding a pellet the gun likes is very important as is making sure all the screws are tight and a decent scope that will hold zero but I am also confident that not all barrels are equally accurate (which isn't exactly the question asked). I will use my three P35s to demonstrate.
My most accurate P35 is the 22 caliber. It shoots lots of pellets pretty well but came turned a bit "hot" so the light ones go too fast for best accuracy. JSB 18s were pretty good but were still going over 900 fps and H&N Baracuda Match (21g) gave me a couple 3 shot groups that looked like one hole groups. So I have standardized with them. They go about 835 fps. It has now produced one 200 target at the 30 yard challenge and three 199 targets. This is a $430 gun with a sub $200 scope competing with guns costing 3 times as much or more. It has a good barrel. Doesn't need cleaning often either.
It's little brother, my P35-177, has fired a lot more shots at targets trying to get it to the same standard. But it's best is a 194 at the 30 yard challenge. Still plenty good enough to pop a squirrel in the head (which is has done multiple times) but not as accurate as the 22. I've tried polishing the bore and cleaned up the crown on all my P35s and swapping scopes but it just doesn't shoot as well as the 22. But it is still a good rifle and I consider it to be accurate.
My first P35 was a 25 because that is all Krale had when I ordered it. I liked it so much I bought the other two. It is short (well under 30 inches) and light (5 lbs or so without scope) and accurate. The trigger comes set too heavy (seems to be the norm these days) but is not hard to adjust down to about a pound. It is not terribly consistent, however, and varies several ounces from pull to pull. But it's a neat gun. I killed 18 squirrels with it the first year I had it. The only time it missed may have been when I tried shooting through some twigs (got the squirrel but not from the shot through the twigs). The crown on this gun looks like somebody drilled out about an inch of the rifling trying to fix the crown. I have polished the crown as best I can and the rifling too. It will sometimes give me a 1/4 inch 25 yard 3 shot group but only sometimes. It's best on the 30 yard challenge is a 154 if I remember right. Despite more work than my other too it is just not nearly as accurate. I've ordered another barrel for it from SPA through Krale and hope that gets it to the level of at least the 177. I will be ecstatic if it gets to the 22s level of accuracy. But is it "accurate". For hitting squirrels dependably at 35 yards or under it has demonstrated the answer is yes. For hitting the 1/8th inch 10 ring of the 30 yard challenge target at 30 yards consistently, it is not accurate enough.
Not all airguns are equally accurate. All my airguns are accurate enough for me to enjoy them, however. But I rarely shoot a 30 yard challenge target with the P35-25. Just isn't as much fun as using the P35-22 for that. I agree with the OP that the shooter makes more difference than the gun in the vast majority of circumstances. But nobody is going to shoot a 200 with my P35-25 without a new barrel on it. At some point the gun does make a difference.
My most accurate P35 is the 22 caliber. It shoots lots of pellets pretty well but came turned a bit "hot" so the light ones go too fast for best accuracy. JSB 18s were pretty good but were still going over 900 fps and H&N Baracuda Match (21g) gave me a couple 3 shot groups that looked like one hole groups. So I have standardized with them. They go about 835 fps. It has now produced one 200 target at the 30 yard challenge and three 199 targets. This is a $430 gun with a sub $200 scope competing with guns costing 3 times as much or more. It has a good barrel. Doesn't need cleaning often either.
It's little brother, my P35-177, has fired a lot more shots at targets trying to get it to the same standard. But it's best is a 194 at the 30 yard challenge. Still plenty good enough to pop a squirrel in the head (which is has done multiple times) but not as accurate as the 22. I've tried polishing the bore and cleaned up the crown on all my P35s and swapping scopes but it just doesn't shoot as well as the 22. But it is still a good rifle and I consider it to be accurate.
My first P35 was a 25 because that is all Krale had when I ordered it. I liked it so much I bought the other two. It is short (well under 30 inches) and light (5 lbs or so without scope) and accurate. The trigger comes set too heavy (seems to be the norm these days) but is not hard to adjust down to about a pound. It is not terribly consistent, however, and varies several ounces from pull to pull. But it's a neat gun. I killed 18 squirrels with it the first year I had it. The only time it missed may have been when I tried shooting through some twigs (got the squirrel but not from the shot through the twigs). The crown on this gun looks like somebody drilled out about an inch of the rifling trying to fix the crown. I have polished the crown as best I can and the rifling too. It will sometimes give me a 1/4 inch 25 yard 3 shot group but only sometimes. It's best on the 30 yard challenge is a 154 if I remember right. Despite more work than my other too it is just not nearly as accurate. I've ordered another barrel for it from SPA through Krale and hope that gets it to the level of at least the 177. I will be ecstatic if it gets to the 22s level of accuracy. But is it "accurate". For hitting squirrels dependably at 35 yards or under it has demonstrated the answer is yes. For hitting the 1/8th inch 10 ring of the 30 yard challenge target at 30 yards consistently, it is not accurate enough.
Not all airguns are equally accurate. All my airguns are accurate enough for me to enjoy them, however. But I rarely shoot a 30 yard challenge target with the P35-25. Just isn't as much fun as using the P35-22 for that. I agree with the OP that the shooter makes more difference than the gun in the vast majority of circumstances. But nobody is going to shoot a 200 with my P35-25 without a new barrel on it. At some point the gun does make a difference.
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When people say they want a definition of accuracy, in the ballistics world there is a definition which is nothing to do with group sizes, and it is the same definition in the US as it is in Europe.
The official definition of accuracy is the distance between the centre of a group and the aim point. The group size is defined as precision in the US, dispersion in the UK. The definitions were introduced so that everyone would know what everyone else was talking about. Unfortunately, the vast majority of shooters still use their own definitions. The reason the group size definitions are different in the US and the UK is because we use precision as a combination of dispersion and accuracy, so here one shot one hit on the target would be high precision.
The official definition of accuracy is the distance between the centre of a group and the aim point. The group size is defined as precision in the US, dispersion in the UK. The definitions were introduced so that everyone would know what everyone else was talking about. Unfortunately, the vast majority of shooters still use their own definitions. The reason the group size definitions are different in the US and the UK is because we use precision as a combination of dispersion and accuracy, so here one shot one hit on the target would be high precision.
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All airguns I've ever shot are accurate. Its their inherent nature. But some are slightly better than others.
Accurate and precise. Precise but not accurate. Both are usually achieved from rest. unless you're an Olympic shooter.
Accurate, but not Precise, is what a hunter hopes to achieve from an off-hand shooting position, which is what I personally strive for.
Neither Accurate nor Precise. What none of us wants to do.
Most depends upon the shooter.
Accurate and precise. Precise but not accurate. Both are usually achieved from rest. unless you're an Olympic shooter.
Accurate, but not Precise, is what a hunter hopes to achieve from an off-hand shooting position, which is what I personally strive for.
Neither Accurate nor Precise. What none of us wants to do.
Most depends upon the shooter.
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NO!!! not all guns are good, I got a SPA P15, 25 cal from a garage in Arkansas that would NOT print a 2 inch group at 10 yds, a true piece of dog poop,,,
rebarreled with a LW barrel and more internal work, turned it in to a fine shooter.
I still have that barrel looking for a place to shove it,,, has a tight spot 2 inch from the crown that squeezes the pellet to a smaller diameter, from there it just bounces out of the barrel, to what ever direction it wants to go, helter skelter,,, I was one pissed off'ed buyer back when I first got into PCP
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Universally .... ALL Air Guns would go the @ same place ( Accurately ) if dropped at the same time from a 1000 yards up from a hovering helicopter !!
1000 yards yup being over 1/2 mile
1000 yards yup being over 1/2 mile
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