Are A/0 and S/F scopes necessary?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
M

Mycapt65

Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,878
3,285
NY, United States
I have multiple airguns (Weihrauch springers) and powder burners from rimfire to 7mm-08. Almost all with AO and SF scopes on them. I've missed several "targets of opportunity" that suddenly appear where my magnification and or parallax focus wasn't set for. At close range when set for long range the field of view was too small and target out of focus. And when shifting from close range, say ten yards to out to a hundred the field of view would be fine but the target would be blurry. Both cases I'd needed to adjust the AO/SF and possibly the magnification.

I'm in the process of converting my field rifles to fixed focus and sometimes magnification.

My 177 Hw50 is used for hunting squirrels, out to 40 yards and plinking silhouettes, spinners and beer cans from ten to hundred yards. Last year I bought a cheap 4x32 Hawke Vantage mildot scope for it with plans to adjust the 100yd fixed parallax down to 35 or so. Unfortunately I couldn't break the objective ring free and was stuck with a hundred yard fixed parallax.

In outdoor light it was perfectly in focus for me at eleven yards. Still completely usable at ten yards and passable at ten yards in the dimmer basement. At the field target range it was nice to go back and forth rapidly between a ten yard and a hundred yard targets without touching the scope.

I just read a thread where people were questioning the intelligence of people who'd buy a 60 yard fixed parallax scope for an airgun. Yes if you need high magnification at ten yards you need adjustable parallax for the target to be in focus. If you don't, a low power scope with a fixed parallax is fine if you consistently center your eye to eliminate parallax error.

Parallax is less an issue than most people think. Here's the first five shots out of my Hw50 with a fixed hundred yard parallax scope today at ten yards in the basement. This is where parallax error should be huge. Yes it's low and right but that's because it was last zeroed outdoors at 25 yards.

There's lots of benefits to simplifying your field rig. Sometimes less is more. This is one of my most fun and accurate guns to shoot at all practical ranges. Don't think you always need an AO or SF scope. Certainly don't question people's intelligence for using fixed scopes. Here's an airgun with a hundred yard fixed parallax scope and it works great.
Ymmv

20221130_084611.jpg


20220630_161627.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Airgun-hobbyist
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
It wasn't about questioning the intelligence of someone buying a $200 fixed parallax scope, its about why would you do that given the option of buying something more appropriate for a very similar price.
Click to expand...
What's more appropriate is totally subjective. If a $300 scope for $200 with a fixed 60 yard parallax is completely functional at airgun ranges and suits their needs and budget who's anyone to say what's more appropriate?

I wanted to show that AO and SF scopes are not mandatory for all airguns. Therefore we shouldn't assert that they are. Sure we can recommend AO/SF scopes and explain their benefits for certain applications but questioning someone's logic for choosing a fixed parallax scope isn't necessary either.

As pointed out here there's a lot of different approaches to optics. I think the AO/SF approach has been wrongfully deemed necessary when it's not. In fact sometimes it's even detrimental as I tried to explain.

Sometimes people get so indoctrinated to repeated incorrect internet beliefs, they automatically repeat them themselves. I believe we need to be a little more flexibility in our thinking. That's all.
 
Upvote 0
Ok so I had to wait until I got home to verify this. I'm going to disagree on a 60yd or 100yd fixed working great on a typical airgun at even low power. Will it work? Obviously yes but hard pass from me. I have 4 optics in front of me. An Ares ETR 4.5-30x56, a Hawke Sidewinder 30 4-16x50, a Leupold V3-Xi 4.5-14x50, and an Athlon Talos BTR Gen 2 4-14x44. All scopes set to both 60yd and 100yd at the minimum magnification were absolutely usable at 25yds and in. Maybe not ideal, but usable.

The 3x $700-$1200 optics were still usable under 10yds but didn't feel particularly great to look through for extended periods of time. The Cheaper Athlon optic was blurry (even at 25) and never in a million years would I want to do that for extended periods of time. Given the price point of those scopes, I would assume the Leupold, ETR, and the Sidewinder are at least a couple of steps up in glass quality compared to that cheaper Leupold and definitely better than the Vantage which I assume is closer to the Talos. Never used a Vantage though so maybe my assumption is incorrect.

Sorry, but I couldn't personally do that but if you can all the power in the world to you. I know you know what you're doing so I'm not going to question your personal preferences. That being said, if someone ASKS like OP did on that thread, you're darn right I'm going to recommend an adjustable parallax. Its better to have it than not IMO. Set it to where you think you'll be using it and go. I've taken plenty of successful shots with the parallax well out of adjustment so its obviously not impossible, just not ideal.

I'm off to go find that thread again because I dont recall actually being a jerk on that thread. I do recall saying "Why would you want a fixed focus on an airgun" which I feel is 100% a fair question. If I was a jerk, I do apologize now. I'll find out in a minute I guess.
 
Upvote 0
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
Ok so I had to wait until I got home to verify this. I'm going to disagree on a 60yd or 100yd fixed working great on a typical airgun at even low power. Will it work? Obviously yes but hard pass from me. I have 4 optics in front of me. An Ares ETR 4.5-30x56, a Hawke Sidewinder 30 4-16x50, a Leupold V3-Xi 4.5-14x50, and an Athlon Talos BTR Gen 2 4-14x44. All scopes set to both 60yd and 100yd at the minimum magnification were absolutely usable at 25yds and in. Maybe not ideal, but usable.

The 3x $700-$1200 optics were still usable under 10yds but didn't feel particularly great to look through for extended periods of time. The Cheaper Athlon optic was blurry (even at 25) and never in a million years would I want to do that for extended periods of time. Given the price point of those scopes, I would assume the Leupold, ETR, and the Sidewinder are at least a couple of steps up in glass quality compared to that cheaper Leupold and definitely better than the Vantage which I assume is closer to the Talos. Never used a Vantage though so maybe my assumption is incorrect.

Sorry, but I couldn't personally do that but if you can all the power in the world to you. I know you know what you're doing so I'm not going to question your personal preferences. That being said, if someone ASKS like OP did on that thread, you're darn right I'm going to recommend an adjustable parallax. Its better to have it than not IMO. Set it to where you think you'll be using it and go. I've taken plenty of successful shots with the parallax well out of adjustment so its obviously not impossible, just not ideal.

I'm off to go find that thread again because I dont recall actually being a jerk on that thread. I do recall saying "Why would you want a fixed focus on an airgun" which I feel is 100% a fair question. If I was a jerk, I do apologize now. I'll find out in a minute I guess.
Click to expand...
Please don't take this personally. I never called you or anyone else on or from that thread a jerk. I never call people names.

All I said, was someone questioned the intelligence of using a 60 yard fixed focus scope scope on an airgun. I'm just pointing out that contrary to popular opinion AO and SF scopes are not required. That's all.

Be well
Ron
 
Upvote 0
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
Yeah I must be thinking of a different thread because on the one I was thinking of nobody even once questioned OPs intelligence.

LINK TO THREAD IN QUESTION
Click to expand...
I apologize. I misread your intentions when you asked "why would you want a scope with a 60 yard parallax". It was a fair question. I took it out of context.
Apologies
 
Upvote 0
Mycapt65 said:
I apologize. I misread your intentions when you asked "why would you want a scope with a 60 yard parallax". It was a fair question. I took it out of context.
Apologies
Click to expand...
No worries. Thats on me too. I do have a tendency to be a jerk/smarta$$ when I disagree with someone so I should expect there to be consequences for that from time to time.

Anyway, while I do agree it isn't necessary, personally I'd rather have it than not. After running my little experiment here though I do find I'll be more inclined to not just pass on a fixed parallax optic if the price is right. That Leupold was suprisingly crisp at all ranges. The plain Jane Duplex reticle may have helped there though.
 
Upvote 0
Man, on an airgun I gotta have an adjustable parallax. If I'm strictly in the woods hunting, it may never move off of 30 yards, but any other situation it definitely will.

100 yard parallax on any of my airguns would never fly for me.

I think the fixed parallax being an issue is also fairly scope dependent. I was sighting in my dad's deer rifle the other day, which has a cheap 3-9 Bushnell on it and the parallax error was HORRIBLE at even 50 yards. Slightest movement of your head and the cross hairs were all over the place. I've got a couple other deer rifles with fixed scopes and it's not nearly as big an issue, basically a non-issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FarmPlinker
Upvote 0
I can’t stand parallax adjustable scopes for hunting. After a bunch of squirrel hunting with my airguns, yesterday I was sitting in my tree scoping deer throughout the day with my .444 T/C Encore. I was so happy not having to play with a wheel every time I saw something. I believe if someone built a 4-12 50 yard parallax scope with all the crap that airgungunners like, jumbo turrets and crazy reticles, they would sell a bunch. I know I would transplant it onto my Airguns once I hit the woods. I shot plenty of blurry squirrels this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: karl_h
Upvote 0
Vetmx said:
I can’t stand parallax adjustable scopes for hunting. After a bunch of squirrel hunting with my airguns, yesterday I was sitting in my tree scoping deer throughout the day with my .444 T/C Encore. I was so happy not having to play with a wheel every time I saw something. I believe if someone built a 4-12 50 yard parallax scope with all the crap that airgungunners like, jumbo turrets and crazy reticles, they would sell a bunch. I know I would transplant it onto my Airguns once I hit the woods. I shot plenty of blurry squirrels this year.
Click to expand...
See this is what I dont understand. You can still shoot blurry squirrels to your hearts content with an adjustable scope. If the squirrel isn't blurry enough you can even make it more blurry! But seriously, just because its there doesn't mean you have to use it. Realistically what are you saving by not at least having the option? A couple ounces?
 
Upvote 0
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
See this is what I dont understand. You can still shoot blurry squirrels to your hearts content with an adjustable scope. If the squirrel isn't blurry enough you can even make it more blurry! But seriously, just because its there doesn't mean you have to use it. Realistically what are you saving by not at least having the option? A couple ounces?
Click to expand...
That's my take. It's there when I need it, and I KNOW I will need it eventually.

I don't mess with every shot when hunting, it's usually set to 25-30 yards and left. Just so happens, that's where most of my shots are.

But I haven't seen any scopes that come fixed at 25-30, so adjustable is the only option.

I'm all for fixed power and for the most simple though, dont get me wrong. I don't even use a mildot reticle most of the time.
 
Upvote 0
I've thought about getting a fixed 6X scope for hunting but probably will not. I almost never turn the magnification up but 6X is not enough for shooting paper targets for me so I'd be wanting the swap the scope out, I think. It has caused me to not get a shot before that I left a variable turned up but I try to remember to turn them down to 6x before putting them away if it is squirrel season. I would not want a fixed parallax, especially if set at 100 yards on my airguns. I have one on my 30-06 but I don't shoot squirrels with it. I occasionally use the parallax to get a rough range on the target and I don't have issues taking shots with it set at 25 yards even when that is not ideal. If it is badly out of focus that reminds me to aim plenty high with my bullpups. I shoot a lot more at targets than squirrels, unfortunately, so I buy scopes that will do both tasks. I might someday buy a 8-32 purely for target shooting but so far the max is a 6-24 which is still fine for hunting turned down to 6X.
 
Upvote 0
Vetmx said:
The scopes on most of my big game medium range rifles are not parallax adjustable. And I don’t look at a blurry anything at any range. But I do have some parallax at shorter distances but it’s insignificant.
Click to expand...
Firearms are a different story all together especially longer ranged calibers. Your point blank range on your typical rifle is nearly 200yds. A little blur or parallax error doesn't matter much. When you're shooting groups with an itty bitty pellet gun and trying to beat an old record of like 1/4", error comes into play.
 
Upvote 0
Maybe out west. In the east 99% of our shots are under 100. All my squirrel rifles have no parallax adjustment and I could fill truck beds with the squirrels I shot with those 22lr’s. No need for hold over or under with those guns though. UTG made a 3-9 I think 35 yard parallax scope. Not sure if they still do. It’s on my Savage 22lr and works great without having to play with a wheel. I would just like something a little higher quality with a little more effort put into its design for airgun guys. Made by a better scope manufacturer.
 
Upvote 0
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
No worries. Thats on me too. I do have a tendency to be a jerk/smarta$$ when I disagree with someone so I should expect there to be consequences for that from time to time.

Anyway, while I do agree it isn't necessary, personally I'd rather have it than not. After running my little experiment here though I do find I'll be more inclined to not just pass on a fixed parallax optic if the price is right. That Leupold was suprisingly crisp at all ranges. The plain Jane Duplex reticle may have helped there though.
Click to expand...
I looked at the Leupold rimfires and was also turned off by the simple duplex reticle. I NEED a mildot style reticle on my springers. They have a lot of drop at 100yds.
I know Leupold has a rimfire MOA BDC style reticle occasionally but they are sometimes hard to find. They never seem to be around when I convince myself to spend $300 on a scope for an airgun.

I like light compact rifles and non AO scopes help that happen. The Leupolds are lighter than most springer rated scopes with a good guarantee. So that makes them appealing.

For target and bench bound airguns AO is not a problem for me. That's basically the rest of them. When shooting repeatedly at fixed distances I can set the AO and leave it. The extra weight and time to adjust it once doesn't matter.

I like the non AO on my Hw50 a lot because I'll carry that gun into the woods and and I can clearly see any squirrel within the range of the gun. Well other than inside ten, eleven yards but how often do you get that close to a wild squirrel? It helps keep the gun light and well balanced. The whole package only weighs 7.2 lbs. Even when plinking at local airgun range I can shoot anything from ten to a hundred yards without making a single adjustment. It works out well for what I use that gun for.

Also I like that mildot values never change on fixed magnification scopes. It's another topic but it's another nice benefit of simple fixed scopes.

Different strokes for different folks. No right or wrong here.
 
Upvote 0
After reading scope discussions for several years, and contributing my own 2c here and there — I think the not infrequent disagreements can often be traced to two shooting scenarios:

▪ Scenario 1: shooting squirrels (close range, quick movers, no time to make many adjustments)
▪ Scenario 2: NOT shooting squirrels (but shooting anything else, from a hide, or at longer ranges, or stationary, or paper)


Both scenarios will promote very different scope uses. And that's were many of the disagreements come from. I think.... 😊




▪ I also suspect that Scenario 1 is very favorable to springers and does not require PCP's.
▪ On the other hand, Scenario 2 can have many variations where a PCP is either much better or simply a requirement.
➔ And many springer shooters have declared WHY they like springers — springers are straight-forward and simple — no support equipment, no bells, no whistles, no complications.
The springer shooters' personal gun preference for the beauty of simplicity probably often extends to their scope preference. So, simpler scopes are often perceived as better (fixed parallax, fixed magnification, no turret dialing).



Just trying to understand people who have such different opinions from my own..... 👍🏼😊

Matthias
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: steve123 and boscoebrea
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu