anyone using the Corbin swage kit?

[AirSupply]

Excellent. 3 beers = 100 slugs

I’ m keen to try this. Especially being in Australia getting hold of slugs means paper work, permits and lots of waiting. I can get lead wire here in Oz. To be able to produce them for myself and mates makes a lot of sense. 

Apart from the correct size die what bases and HP punches would you recommend? From what I’ve seen the HP’s seem to have got bigger. Do you think that is only to do with its effectiveness on game or do you think it can influence the accuracy of the slug also. It’s a long way to ship stuff so I’d rather try to get all the combinations of bases and HP that will be useful without wasting money

Thanks again Michael

 

[13brv3]

I've wondered about the hollow point and accuracy as well. Clearly the HP moves the CG aft slightly, but I'm not clear if that's a good or bad thing. My feeble understanding of aerodynamics makes me believe the hollow pocket will be packed with air, and essentially behave the same as solid lead in flight. 

One limitation of the die seems to be that you have to have some flat portion on the tip to push the slug out of the die. I have to believe a pointy tip would be better, but with pure lead, a pointy tip would be too easily damaged. It would also make the slug longer, and I'm already up against the maximum length for heavy .22 slugs.

What I'm attempting to order is the .22 die with a common size HP, and flat base. This would essentially be the NSA clone. I'm also ordering a flat tip punch, and additional base punches to make rebated boat tails, dished base, and cup base shapes. The site is pretty confusing to order this stuff, and with the delay, I want to make sure I'm getting it right, so I sent Corbin a screen capture of the loaded cart to see if I got it right. Unfortunately, that was last Friday, and I still haven't heard back from them. Since they usually reply quickly, I resent it last night, so hopefully I'll be able to get this ball rolling later today. 

Rusty

 

[nielsenammo]

I will chime in and give you guys some advice. I have a lot of experience with Corbin. I own one hand press and 3 hydraulic presses from Corbin and unreal amount of dies and punches from him. I have .177, 217, 218, 219, 223, 2495, 250, 308, 309, 257, 338, 375, 357, 358, 401, 408, 457, 458, 498 and 510 plus some of these I have multiple nose profiles and a lot of these calibers I have the two step method of hollow points and the one step. On top of that I have many, many punches to make different bases and HP tips.

First you need to decide what HP type you want to make. You can make them in one step or two steps. The two steps you make the core with the weight adjusted in the first step and it turns the core into what looks like a whiskey barrel cut in half with straight walls and large empty cavity in the center. Then you change dies and place that core into the new die and press it in the die far enough to shape in into the slug you are making. This way is more time consuming but will give you the largest HP cavity possible.

The other method is to use a one step die. These dies are more expensive to buy however you only need one die. The other advantage is the die makes the bullet in one pass, bleeds the lead off for weight and forms the HP and nose in one pass, so you make twice as many bullets per hour. The down side is the HP cavity is smaller. However, that is also a good thing as the two step hollow slugs do not have as good of a BC as the one step solid slugs do.

If you want to sell slugs, I would buy the two step method. Most of the larger companies will be making the single step method so you can fill a niche. I could make the two step style slug on my new machine but I don't have immediate plans to do so and may never do so. You can make a smaller cavity in a two step by using a smaller pin if you want the ability to make a larger cavity or a better BC version in the two step dies.

As for size you have to know what your guns wants. It should be obvious what most guns shoot, look at what is on my website, they are not there by accident. No die you get will work in every gun. I would get a dish base, flat base and cup base. You will see flatbase will work in most guns but not all. Some guns will want a dish base or cup base. HP base almost never works, maybe if you use the two step HP method.

If you are going to use wire, get Corbins wire cutter and mount it to a bench. Corbin's wire is very good. I don't like Corbin's swage lube. Although I use a special lube I used to use Slick 50 in a can and it worked well. Use very little lube but you must use lube or you will lead up your dies. Buy his S Press, a reloading press will suck. You need the leverage. Corbins equipment is very well made and they are very good people to deal with.

 

[Long_Shot]

Excellent. 3 beers = 100 slugs

I’ m keen to try this. Especially being in Australia getting hold of slugs means paper work, permits and lots of waiting. I can get lead wire here in Oz. To be able to produce them for myself and mates makes a lot of sense. 

Apart from the correct size die what bases and HP punches would you recommend? From what I’ve seen the HP’s seem to have got bigger. Do you think that is only to do with its effectiveness on game or do you think it can influence the accuracy of the slug also. It’s a long way to ship stuff so I’d rather try to get all the combinations of bases and HP that will be useful without wasting money

Thanks again Michael

In .25 cal. I have a good size HP. (3rd try) Best of both worlds, accuracy and good expansion at long range.  I had to have good expansion at POI first. Then I went to work on an accurate size, weight and OAL. Different bases help to get the OAL just right in a given weight. My barrels are very OAL sensitive.

Too large of HP could be detrimental to long range stability.

I posted on here a couple Youtube videos exploding water filled cans at 173 yards and at 200 yards. They sound like a .22 short being fired out there at 200 yards when they explode. But that is with a 75 FPE gun. 

I'll try to post a picture of the bases I have after work............... 

 

[Long_Shot]

I will chime in and give you guys some advice. I have a lot of experience with Corbin. I own one hand press and 3 hydraulic presses from Corbin and unreal amount of dies and punches from him. I have .177, 217, 218, 219, 223, 2495, 250, 308, 309, 257, 338, 375, 357, 358, 401, 408, 457, 458, 498 and 510 plus some of these I have multiple nose profiles and a lot of these calibers I have the two step method of hollow points and the one step. On top of that I have many, many punches to make different bases and HP tips.

First you need to decide what HP type you want to make. You can make them in one step or two steps. The two steps you make the core with the weight adjusted in the first step and it turns the core into what looks like a whiskey barrel cut in half with straight walls and large empty cavity in the center. Then you change dies and place that core into the new die and press it in the die far enough to shape in into the slug you are making. This way is more time consuming but will give you the largest HP cavity possible.

The other method is to use a one step die. These dies are more expensive to buy however you only need one die. The other advantage is the die makes the bullet in one pass, bleeds the lead off for weight and forms the HP and nose in one pass, so you make twice as many bullets per hour. The down side is the HP cavity is smaller. However, that is also a good thing as the two step hollow slugs do not have as good of a BC as the one step solid slugs do.

If you want to sell slugs, I would buy the two step method. Most of the larger companies will be making the single step method so you can fill a niche. I could make the two step style slug on my new machine but I don't have immediate plans to do so and may never do so. You can make a smaller cavity in a two step by using a smaller pin if you want the ability to make a larger cavity or a better BC version in the two step dies.

As for size you have to know what your guns wants. It should be obvious what most guns shoot, look at what is on my website, they are not there by accident. No die you get will work in every gun. I would get a dish base, flat base and cup base. You will see flatbase will work in most guns but not all. Some guns will want a dish base or cup base. HP base almost never works, maybe if you use the two step HP method.

If you are going to use wire, get Corbins wire cutter and mount it to a bench. Corbin's wire is very good. I don't like Corbin's swage lube. Although I use a special lube I used to use Slick 50 in a can and it worked well. Use very little lube but you must use lube or you will lead up your dies. Buy his S Press, a reloading press will suck. You need the leverage. Corbins equipment is very well made and they are very good people to deal with.

There it is from the man with more experience than any of us will ever get. Perfect. 

 

[13brv3]

I will chime in and give you guys some advice. I have a lot of experience with Corbin.

Thanks for the absolutely first class reply! I have to admit that I feel bad mentioning that I want to be able to make my own slugs "like the NSA". It just feel wrong to say that, but in my case it's more about experimenting with different weights, and definitely not about selling slugs. 

Cheers,

Rusty

 

[nielsenammo]

Rusty I don't post a lot on here because as a vendor I have some restrictions. I felt with this thread there would be none more qualified to chime in and I honestly don't mind helping others. I won't design your bullets but I can help you get started if you need. Keep in mind this is a time consuming process and you do not make a lot of slugs per hour and you will not be able to pull a press all day long. 

I think it is too late to really get into the slug game unless you have high speed presses because you now have the big players all coming out with slugs and prices will so similar to pellets so anyone hand pressing is only going to find niche markets to sell to. Buy Corbin's set up because you want it for your hobby, save some money if you shoot enough or just like to tinker. As a business venture the slug market has moved to mass production and hand press won't make you a return on your money unless you find a special niche to fill.

There are lots of slugs I have made that work awesome or I only make for myself. I have calibers that I don't even sell. The slugs you can make are endless and it is fun to experiment. Do keep in mind though, every gun does not shoot slugs and sometimes a small diameter difference is the difference between an accurate slug and a not so accurate slug. Meaning you may end up needing a lot of dies to feed all your guns.

 

[13brv3]

All I can say is thank you for all you've done for airgun slugs! I don't think we'd be this far along without you.

Rusty

 

[13brv3]

Order placed. And now the waiting begins... Thanks for all the comments in the thread!

Rusty

 

[Xbowsniper]

Mr. Nielsen has summed it up nicely. I too, have found that all point shapes with a hollow base punch, are generally useless, despite the theory of airguns that the skirt needs to blow out and conform to the rifling. 

I have found, so far, that a flat base is the way to go.....so far. I'm looking for supreme accuracy, not expansion, so if a solid point works better than a hollowpoint, so be it.

As far as swaging all day long, I can make about 200 an hour, .177 takes so little pressure, you can easily do it with 2 fingers. As was stated above, a 5 year old could do it.

Thanks to Mr. Nielsen for chiming in, there's some great guidance from a true slug innovator. 

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 

 

[AirSupply]

What a great tread. Thanks for sharing your your thoughts guys. Good luck Rusty. Hope to see your results here in months to come.

 

[Long_Shot]

Here's my bases I tested, and use. I may try a flat base one day here. My guns have a pin style bolt. I always felt that at least a small cup base may help seat the slugs centered. Probably doesn't matter. Just what I wanted. 

 

[C.B.Daddy]

 Very nice long shot !!! 

 

[13brv3]

With all the options, I think I can stay busy experimenting forever. I figure mine won't arrive for some time, maybe 45-60 days. That's kind of good because I have an airplane in my garage that needs to get finished and moved to the airport before winter makes it too cold to fly. Yep, too many hobbies.

Rusty

 

[C.B.Daddy]

 XBo, Did you mean to say pellet or did you mean to say point? Thanks and by the way I really enjoy your posts and videos .

Mr. Nielsen has summed it up nicely. I too, have found that all point shapes with a hollow base punch, are generally useless, despite the theory of airguns that the skirt needs to blow out and conform to the rifling. 

I have found, so far, that a flat base is the way to go.....so far. I'm looking for supreme accuracy, not expansion, so if a solid point works better than a hollowpoint, so be it.

As far as swaging all day long, I can make about 200 an hour, .177 takes so little pressure, you can easily do it with 2 fingers. As was stated above, a 5 year old could do it.

Thanks to Mr. Nielsen for chiming in, there's some great guidance from a true slug innovator. 

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech

And is that the theory of air guns or air gunners ?

 

[13brv3]

Well, 15 days later, and it's all here. I unpacked it, and I can't say much about the equipment, but the cardboard packaging is an engineering masterpiece Of course the bad news is that I have a much higher priority project ahead of this, so I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to actually set it up and try it out. I envy you guys who only have one hobby

Rusty

 

[Xbowsniper]

CB,

I did mean point. All projectiles that I am making, are all of the "slug" style. I have 3 different point (nose) shapes. I have found, so far, that a hollow base regardless of the nose shape, are basically useless. Keep in mind, this is out of 12 FT lb rigs, all with choked barrels. The results of other less choked barrels, barrels with no choke, smooth twist, poly barrels might be different at my power level. Try all of the above at a higher power, results could be drastically improved, or reduced, depending upon slug design and weight. 

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 

 

[AirSupply]

Hi Tom, That’s disappointing the cup base doesn’t work. Seems the easiest way to decrease the weight and still have decent length to the slug. I’m waiting on my Corbin gear so not totally across how it works but was wondering could you put a wide and deep hollow point in the slug and then press it again with a smaller hollow point and close the hollow point up creating a cavity within the slug?

I have no idea if this can be done but interested in if you think it’s possible. 

Michael

 

[Xbowsniper]

Michael, 

I think you are getting the hollow base and Cup base mixed up.... here they are to clarify.....

The cup base works OK on some weights and nose shape, it's the hollow base that is the crappy one, every nose shape, weight, and nose style (solidpoint or hollowpoint) are useless at my power level.

As to what you want to do with the suggested style, having a hollow cavity in an enclosed nose, that I'm not sure if you can do. That would be a question that Dave Corbin could answer, or some other knowledgeable die maker or individual. 

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 

 

[13brv3]

OK, couldn't resist. Who saw that coming I set up the press on the corner of my reloading bench, and made about a dozen slugs. The size came out exactly .217 as ordered, and the weight is pretty darn consistent once set. I actually trust my scale less than the die. I'll have a lot more to say eventually, but just wanted to mention how impressive this seems already.

Since the handle goes sooooo low, I'm going to have to find a taller bench, or raise it up with something like Dillon sells for their presses. The only issue with the Corbin gear is that the lead cutter makes a min weight of 37.5 grains, which is wasteful when you want less. Since I'm using .22 cal, I'm looking to start with 30 gr. I have to check their site, but this cutter is using .185" wire, which I'm guessing is the smallest they have. If that's the case, I'll need to mill the cutter's 1/2" tall "die" down some to allow for shorter blanks. It looks like just a simple bushing, so hopefully not anything insanely hardened. 

Cheers,

Rusty