Hello,
Just wondering if anyone is using one of these centrifugal filters and how they like it.
Thanks
Just wondering if anyone is using one of these centrifugal filters and how they like it.
Thanks
Anyone using a Centrifugal Filter?
- Thread starter GoldenFrog
- Start date
looks like a gimmick to me . do you have a link ? not all the pages can be enlarged .
EDIT tried looking it up , no luck
EDIT tried looking it up , no luck
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Yes, fairly popular with Yong Heng owners. Game changer for me. Search, "Yong Heng" in archives as the water coalescing filter is a recurring topic. WM
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yes, i have one i use for my shoebox F10
it works very well and my tanks have zero moisture in them.
bought mine from TOAUTO (an amazon seller) about a year ago.
it works very well and my tanks have zero moisture in them.
bought mine from TOAUTO (an amazon seller) about a year ago.
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They are not a gimmick, and frequently used in industry. We call them "cyclone separators", but centrifugal is equivalent.
From my Uncle Google:
Cyclonic separation is a method of removing particulates from an air, gas or liquid stream, without the use of filters, through vortex separation. When removing particulate matter from liquid, a hydrocyclone is used; while from gas, a gas cyclone is used. Rotational effects and gravity are used to separate mixtures of solids and fluids. The method can also be used to separate fine droplets of liquid from a gaseous stream.
From my Uncle Google:
Cyclonic separation is a method of removing particulates from an air, gas or liquid stream, without the use of filters, through vortex separation. When removing particulate matter from liquid, a hydrocyclone is used; while from gas, a gas cyclone is used. Rotational effects and gravity are used to separate mixtures of solids and fluids. The method can also be used to separate fine droplets of liquid from a gaseous stream.
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At the slow flow rates of most non-scuba compressors I doubt much cyclone actions is occurring. Work more like a condensing water trap. Cooling the hot air so that the dew point is lowered.
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Thanks for shedding light on these mystery tubes. I’ve got a GX CS4 coming and I’m leaning towards one of these and a second cartridge filter with a drain on it.
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One more question, it says that the centrifugal filter is rated to 4500psi and the GX CS4 is rated to 5800psi. Could this be an issue? Thanks
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A coalescing filter is an important component of EVERY high pressure compressor. It removes 98% or more of all moisture before a desiccant filter adsorbs the rest. Anyone who operates a coalescing filter drain valve durng a fill can attest to the significant amount of water that these devices blast out each time they are opened. This filter forces pressurized air through a pathway that creates a cyclonic force that coalesces water to the inner lining and forces the drier air out of the top of the filter. Anyone who buys an economy compressor would be much better served with one of these than a desiccant filter alone. Without this filter, any desiccant filter gets saturated much faster than it is designed for. Dive compressors will always have both types. It's definitely not a gimmick.
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I have 2 of them, one with my Yong Heng and the other with my GX CS4. It seems to bleed off a substantial amount of moisture in front of my JB Alpha Filter.
-PJ
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Okay I’m ordering one now. Thanks again for all the first hand knowledge. There’s so many options out there. Trying not to end up with junk.
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I think @BlackICE is probably right about the air flow speed on this, and that @Humdinger has it correct for most applications . . .
You have to remember that when when are talking about obtaining "dry air" by removing "water" we are really dealing with removing two different things: condensed water that is already a liquid, and gaseous water that is a vapor. We can obviously remove all the liquid water, but we can't remove "all" of the water vapor - the goal is to remove enough of it so that the air is well below the dew point defined by the temperatures that we expect our air reservoir to experience.
We can do this by using three basic types of filters:
- Coalescing (remove contaminants by getting them to stick together (coalesce) and drop of out of the airflow - works great for removing water/oil mist in air flow, especially when combined with coolers to reduce the air charge temp and drive more condensation),
- Absorptive (uses physical media to directly capture contaminants, like the tampon type - requires the contaminants to be "big enough" to be captured, thus does not work for vaporized contaminants as it will not trap individual molecules of gaseous water, which are too small),
- Adsorptive (uses a media to adsorb contaminants directly, such as desiccant or charcoal, that capture gaseous contaminants directly via adsorption).
The other key thing that we can do is change the temperature of the air charge, often done with active chillers - but we typically would use the chillers ahead of whatever "filter" we wanted to use. Advanced shop compressor systems, like for paint shops, will typically use a chiller to drop the air temp well below the usage temperature and then pass the air through a coalescing filter and have dry enough air (because as it warms back up to ambient the dew point drops) without using the other types of filters.
In our typical applications, the coalescing filters also function as a chiller by allowing the air charge to cool down - I think this is the biggest contribution from them, and to aid it, I'd consider running it in bucket of ice water to do even more. But I do not think that a coalescing filter on its own is enough to guarantee dry air - I would want to run an adsorptive media filter after it to be sure, unless I knew the air charge was chilled below reservoir air temperature.
You have to remember that when when are talking about obtaining "dry air" by removing "water" we are really dealing with removing two different things: condensed water that is already a liquid, and gaseous water that is a vapor. We can obviously remove all the liquid water, but we can't remove "all" of the water vapor - the goal is to remove enough of it so that the air is well below the dew point defined by the temperatures that we expect our air reservoir to experience.
We can do this by using three basic types of filters:
- Coalescing (remove contaminants by getting them to stick together (coalesce) and drop of out of the airflow - works great for removing water/oil mist in air flow, especially when combined with coolers to reduce the air charge temp and drive more condensation),
- Absorptive (uses physical media to directly capture contaminants, like the tampon type - requires the contaminants to be "big enough" to be captured, thus does not work for vaporized contaminants as it will not trap individual molecules of gaseous water, which are too small),
- Adsorptive (uses a media to adsorb contaminants directly, such as desiccant or charcoal, that capture gaseous contaminants directly via adsorption).
The other key thing that we can do is change the temperature of the air charge, often done with active chillers - but we typically would use the chillers ahead of whatever "filter" we wanted to use. Advanced shop compressor systems, like for paint shops, will typically use a chiller to drop the air temp well below the usage temperature and then pass the air through a coalescing filter and have dry enough air (because as it warms back up to ambient the dew point drops) without using the other types of filters.
In our typical applications, the coalescing filters also function as a chiller by allowing the air charge to cool down - I think this is the biggest contribution from them, and to aid it, I'd consider running it in bucket of ice water to do even more. But I do not think that a coalescing filter on its own is enough to guarantee dry air - I would want to run an adsorptive media filter after it to be sure, unless I knew the air charge was chilled below reservoir air temperature.
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Folks, maybe you can help me
First I am pleased to hear the group's thoughts on these centrifugal seperators. What I clearly hear is that they do remove water from HPA prior to filling our rifles.
The compressor that I have is an Omega Trail Charger which like many similar compressors has a bleed valve on it, which I use to vent some water which it pulls some out of the air.
Wanting to have more moister removed from the HPA, I too purchased a centrifugal seperator the same Toauto from Amazon that gendoc previously mentioned.
My intention is to use it as a 1st stage as others here have suggested. After that I intend to run the air though an Omega Clean Air Filter (basically a rebadged Coltri 4 part cartridge filter) and use it as a 2nd stage prior to filling my rifles.
My question to you is, after filling my rifle and shutting the compressor off, which do I bleed first the centrifugal seperator, my compressor or both and if both in what order?
First I am pleased to hear the group's thoughts on these centrifugal seperators. What I clearly hear is that they do remove water from HPA prior to filling our rifles.
The compressor that I have is an Omega Trail Charger which like many similar compressors has a bleed valve on it, which I use to vent some water which it pulls some out of the air.
Wanting to have more moister removed from the HPA, I too purchased a centrifugal seperator the same Toauto from Amazon that gendoc previously mentioned.
My intention is to use it as a 1st stage as others here have suggested. After that I intend to run the air though an Omega Clean Air Filter (basically a rebadged Coltri 4 part cartridge filter) and use it as a 2nd stage prior to filling my rifles.
My question to you is, after filling my rifle and shutting the compressor off, which do I bleed first the centrifugal seperator, my compressor or both and if both in what order?
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I have a yong heng compressor and I also use the Toauto filter followed by a tuxing gold filter with the molecular sieve. I always drain the centrifugal filter first. My opinion/theory is that whatever moisture there is gets exhausted out rather than pushed into the molecular sieve filter.
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That makes sense. Since I am still assembling the filter set, I don't have personal experience with it. I suspect that the centrifugal seperator will collect the greater amount of water.
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That looks great! Essentially what I have that I can switch back and forth between my GX CS4 and Yong Heng compressors. I have yet to see any water in it from the CS4 but it does well in trapping the moisture from the Yong Heng which has a much less efficient water trap than the CS4.
As noted in other posts of mine, I added a one way valve between the compressor and the external water trap plus a shutoff valve and bleed valve on the gun side of my molecular sieve filter so don't have to fill those up from empty every time I want to fill a gun. After checking every seal and connection, they now hold 300 bar forever. The seal that needs replacing most often is the one way connector O-Ring. They seem to last about 2 months before they start to slowly leak as they are opening and closing constantly under high pressure. A bit of O-Ring grease extends their useful life as well as using 90 duro O-rings.
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Geezerhood,
I like the idea, filling both canisters certainly puts time on my compressor every time.
As I think about it though doesn't leaving it pressurized with the Yong Heng then leave the water trapped in the centrifugal coalescing filter by not venting it? Doesn't that increase the risk of corrosion in that part?
Regardless, if you don't mind, would you please send me a list of what you are using, I'd like to play around with the idea a bit.
BP-1
I like the idea, filling both canisters certainly puts time on my compressor every time.
As I think about it though doesn't leaving it pressurized with the Yong Heng then leave the water trapped in the centrifugal coalescing filter by not venting it? Doesn't that increase the risk of corrosion in that part?
Regardless, if you don't mind, would you please send me a list of what you are using, I'd like to play around with the idea a bit.
BP-1
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