Anyone try out the AirMaks Krait X?

[cwil58]

Almost pull the trigger on 1 of these I'm glad I didn't.

 

[Vetmx]

Well that’s a chance we all take when we order unproven guns. I’ve done this before with several guns over the years. Someone has to take the wheel of the bandwagon. Unfortunately it’s almost always reg issues that cause grief with potentially good guns. Some just struggle to get it right. It’s also about standards. I own quite a few top quality and performing guns. So that’s the standard by which this gun is compared to. It’s in the same price range so it has to. I have not fired one shot out of the gun tuning, sighting in or for groups that hasn’t been shot over a chronograph. I like to monitor everything. I want to even see how a gun behaves immediately after a refill. To me there is no reason this gun shouldn’t be a Taipan. The pic of the hammer spring should tell everyone that with this gun 1/8 turn could be like 1/2 turn on some of your other guns. I know people want to know how accurate it is and so do I. But I need to get the gun stable enough holding a tune to be able to test different pellet speeds. Right now I have what appears to be the valve adjustment backed all the way off. As I change my hammer strike, I don’t want it influencing the valve. This might be why I was finally able to shoot 930fps at 210b and 260b in the tank this morning. I’ll get back on it in a couple hours. The only reason I’m posting all this is so when guys get their guns without any kind of manual or 26 YouTube tuning videos to watch, they have something to reference. Warrens video and chronograph numbers made me nervous. But it gave me a heads up. One of two things will happen. This topic could be a wealth of tuning information. Or we just all send ours back and spend $1,700 on another gun you tune in 30 minutes and enjoy.

 

[Vetmx]

This might be my last update because I have other things to do for a while. I got my guns shot strings to look like they should. Except my first several shots. Namely the first two. At -100fps then -50fps, those first two pretty much make the gun useless because it doesn’t have to sit long for it to happen. Even just loading a magazine you get a velocity drop. I’ve confirmed that my new US gun is not the only one doing it so I’m not the only one working on resolving it. If the plenum pressure crept up 30b it would be obvious what the problem was. In this guns case, it’s a head scratcher. It’s like the valve somehow gets valve locked when it sits under pressure. Is the reg not vented properly? I don’t know right now. Airmaks needs to fix this. Email sent to them.

 

[Sc0-]

Waiting to receive the X model from UA, hopefully will arrive this weekend.

 

[GoldenFrog]

Thanks Vetmx for reporting on your progress. I’m going to hold off on ordering until hopefully these issues get resolved.

 

[joelayfield]

those guys sending those out the door like that must have a plan to not sell too many too fast !im thinking they are all wanting vacation and good working guns causes you to stay home and work building more cause every one including me would want one , those guys know what they are doing !!!

 

[Vetmx]

I will give you my theory on what’s going on with these slow first shots with these guns. Take a look at the hammer system picture. This hammer system is nice. My Zbroia has something similar. You don’t ever have to worry about hammer bounce. The problem is, this system is very sensitive to creep. With our guns that have the heavy slug of a hammer zipping down a tube, we can tune our hammer spring setting to compensate for some reg creep. I’ve been watching my gauge super close and I do get a very tiny amount of reg creep. So tiny that it wouldn’t concern me on any of my guns. I believe with the Krait, we better hope that they mastered or will master the art of the zero creep single reg. If you get a reg that doesn’t creep, how long will it last before it does and you’re back to square one. The design of the reg won’t allow us to machine a new seat down the road if necessary. While I’m on my trip, I have to really think about if keeping the gun will be worth it. It’s fairly accurate as long as I keep the engine running. But as a comparison, my RTI with the CZ barrel on it will easily outshoot it In the same speed range. But the gun does have hunting accuracy out to 50 and that’s my intended purpose for the gun. And no, if I keep it I won’t be shooting slugs out of the L model. I’m at 140b already just shooting pellets.

 

[MikeVV]

Well that’s a chance we all take when we order unproven guns. I’ve done this before with several guns over the years. Someone has to take the wheel of the bandwagon. Unfortunately it’s almost always reg issues that cause grief with potentially good guns. Some just struggle to get it right. It’s also about standards. I own quite a few top quality and performing guns. So that’s the standard by which this gun is compared to. It’s in the same price range so it has to. I have not fired one shot out of the gun tuning, sighting in or for groups that hasn’t been shot over a chronograph. I like to monitor everything. I want to even see how a gun behaves immediately after a refill. To me there is no reason this gun shouldn’t be a Taipan. The pic of the hammer spring should tell everyone that with this gun 1/8 turn could be like 1/2 turn on some of your other guns. I know people want to know how accurate it is and so do I. But I need to get the gun stable enough holding a tune to be able to test different pellet speeds. Right now I have what appears to be the valve adjustment backed all the way off. As I change my hammer strike, I don’t want it influencing the valve. This might be why I was finally able to shoot 930fps at 210b and 260b in the tank this morning. I’ll get back on it in a couple hours. The only reason I’m posting all this is so when guys get their guns without any kind of manual or 26 YouTube tuning videos to watch, they have something to reference. Warrens video and chronograph numbers made me nervous. But it gave me a heads up. One of two things will happen. This topic could be a wealth of tuning information. Or we just all send ours back and spend $1,700 on another gun you tune in 30 minutes and enjoy.

Noted in red above.
I was a very early purchaser, buyer, (no...I didn't "pull the trigger" until I got it at home !) of the Airmaks, Caiman. While I didn't do any dismantling, I did watch the pressure gauge and the pellet, fps closely looking for any leakage problems, as I do on all of my, better guns. I didn't mind being a very early in my purchase of the Caiman, as yeah, I have no problem digging into one of these machines, to solve possible problems. But I normally don't do a full dismantle to them as a matter of seeing what they are made of.
As long as there is no perceptible problem, I just do some required tuning (normally lowering the pellet fps), and shoot them.
One major unfortunate thing for me, I don't own a mill or lath ! So that stops me from doing too much, deep experimenting.

Mike

 

[AirShootist]

We shot like 300 rounds out of the Krait X today. Still getting some creep even with the V2 reg and still getting inconsistency and dwindling velocities as the tank pressure goes down. I know in my video I rated this thing as an 8/10 but I really think it should be a 6.5, tops 7, out of 10 at best...

Temp was about 50 degrees outside. Ammo is .217 diameter 24.8gr NSA slugs. Reg set to 130ish bar, but this changes a bit based on tank pressure. It looked like at around 150 bar in the tank the reg was at like 120, but with 300 bar in the tank the reg was at 132(ish). It would seem the V2 reg did NOT fix this gun's bad behavior completely.

Below is a shot string of 10 magazines. Gun can fire 5 mags at around 50fpe before needing a fill-up. After seeing @Vetmx 's pics of that thick/small hammer spring, I backed off on the hammer spring adjustment a tad. I originally had it 1/8th a turn in, but backed off so its more like 1/16th a turn in (from factory setting). No other settings were changed from when I did the review video.

Here we see 159 shots (1 shot did not read) or 10 mags. Notice at the start of the second 5-mag string the super lowball 888fps velocity. This was cause by reg creep. Then we get 975ish velocities to start (290-300 bar) ending at 950ish fps velocities when the bottle pressure starts getting down to about 150-160 bar. Also if you let the gun sit, it would creep a bit and you'd get a hotter shot. You can see the timestamps followed by the velocities in the readings below.


Shot count: 159
Low: 888
Hi: 981
Avg: 958
STD Dev: 10.1
Spread: 93.0

11/5/22 2:23:44 PM,928 (LOW DUE TO REG CREEP)
11/5/22 2:24:02 PM,974
11/5/22 2:24:12 PM,967
11/5/22 2:24:25 PM,967
11/5/22 2:24:32 PM,963
11/5/22 2:24:40 PM,963
11/5/22 2:24:48 PM,965
11/5/22 2:24:59 PM,967
11/5/22 2:25:20 PM,967
11/5/22 2:25:33 PM,970
11/5/22 2:25:41 PM,972
11/5/22 2:25:48 PM,967
11/5/22 2:25:55 PM,963
11/5/22 2:26:05 PM,963
11/5/22 2:26:12 PM,963
11/5/22 2:26:19 PM,963
11/5/22 2:26:43 PM,970
11/5/22 2:26:49 PM,963
11/5/22 2:26:54 PM,960
11/5/22 2:27:00 PM,956
11/5/22 2:27:18 PM,960
11/5/22 2:27:27 PM,963
11/5/22 2:27:35 PM,965
11/5/22 2:27:48 PM,960
11/5/22 2:27:55 PM,956
11/5/22 2:28:02 PM,953
11/5/22 2:28:10 PM,956
11/5/22 2:28:20 PM,958
11/5/22 2:28:27 PM,953
11/5/22 2:28:37 PM,956
11/5/22 2:28:46 PM,956
11/5/22 2:28:59 PM,956
11/5/22 2:32:04 PM,977
11/5/22 2:32:13 PM,960
11/5/22 2:33:01 PM,963
11/5/22 2:33:09 PM,958
11/5/22 2:33:15 PM,956
11/5/22 2:33:20 PM,956
11/5/22 2:33:24 PM,956
11/5/22 2:33:28 PM,960
11/5/22 2:33:32 PM,956
11/5/22 2:33:37 PM,958
11/5/22 2:33:41 PM,953
11/5/22 2:33:46 PM,956
11/5/22 2:33:51 PM,951
11/5/22 2:33:58 PM,946
11/5/22 2:34:11 PM,953
11/5/22 2:34:18 PM,956
11/5/22 2:35:11 PM,963
11/5/22 2:35:18 PM,953
11/5/22 2:35:25 PM,956
11/5/22 2:35:41 PM,944
11/5/22 2:35:46 PM,956
11/5/22 2:35:52 PM,949
11/5/22 2:35:57 PM,949
11/5/22 2:36:09 PM,949
11/5/22 2:36:13 PM,951
11/5/22 2:36:18 PM,953
11/5/22 2:36:23 PM,951
11/5/22 2:36:27 PM,949
11/5/22 2:36:31 PM,953
11/5/22 2:36:36 PM,951
11/5/22 2:36:41 PM,951
11/5/22 2:37:03 PM,953
11/5/22 2:37:08 PM,953
11/5/22 2:37:12 PM,951
11/5/22 2:37:17 PM,949
11/5/22 2:37:21 PM,953
11/5/22 2:37:25 PM,944
11/5/22 2:37:28 PM,956
11/5/22 2:37:32 PM,949
11/5/22 2:37:37 PM,951
11/5/22 2:37:40 PM,942
11/5/22 2:37:45 PM,942
11/5/22 2:37:50 PM,937
11/5/22 2:37:57 PM,942
11/5/22 2:38:07 PM,942
11/5/22 2:38:13 PM,942
11/5/22 2:38:19 PM,942
XXXX------Fill to 290ish bar-----XXXX
11/5/22 3:22:56 PM,888 (MAJOR 1st SHOT DROP-OFF DUE TO REG CREEP! UNACCEPTABLE!)
11/5/22 3:23:13 PM,965
11/5/22 3:23:23 PM,974
11/5/22 3:23:36 PM,981
11/5/22 3:23:59 PM,979
11/5/22 3:24:07 PM,974
11/5/22 3:24:18 PM,967
11/5/22 3:24:28 PM,965
11/5/22 3:24:33 PM,970
11/5/22 3:24:39 PM,972
11/5/22 3:24:45 PM,972
11/5/22 3:24:51 PM,967
11/5/22 3:25:05 PM,970
11/5/22 3:25:13 PM,967
11/5/22 3:25:26 PM,965
11/5/22 3:25:49 PM,972
11/5/22 3:26:36 PM,967
11/5/22 3:26:44 PM,967
11/5/22 3:26:54 PM,960
11/5/22 3:27:02 PM,967
11/5/22 3:27:32 PM,965
11/5/22 3:27:54 PM,974
11/5/22 3:28:25 PM,965
11/5/22 3:28:33 PM,967
11/5/22 3:28:44 PM,965
11/5/22 3:29:32 PM,972
11/5/22 3:30:28 PM,970
11/5/22 3:30:34 PM,956
11/5/22 3:30:53 PM,958
11/5/22 3:31:04 PM,960
11/5/22 3:31:12 PM,956
11/5/22 3:31:18 PM,953
11/5/22 3:32:20 PM,970
11/5/22 3:32:29 PM,967
11/5/22 3:32:35 PM,960
11/5/22 3:32:43 PM,965
11/5/22 3:32:50 PM,963
11/5/22 3:32:57 PM,963
11/5/22 3:33:04 PM,963
11/5/22 3:33:13 PM,960
11/5/22 3:33:20 PM,963
11/5/22 3:33:28 PM,960
11/5/22 3:33:35 PM,963
11/5/22 3:33:46 PM,965
11/5/22 3:33:54 PM,960
11/5/22 3:34:08 PM,963
11/5/22 3:34:16 PM,960
11/5/22 3:34:24 PM,956
11/5/22 3:35:24 PM,965
11/5/22 3:35:32 PM,958
11/5/22 3:35:40 PM,958
11/5/22 3:35:47 PM,958
11/5/22 3:35:56 PM,960
11/5/22 3:36:04 PM,958
11/5/22 3:36:13 PM,960
11/5/22 3:36:54 PM,965
11/5/22 3:37:01 PM,958
11/5/22 3:37:08 PM,956
11/5/22 3:37:18 PM,951
11/5/22 3:37:24 PM,956
11/5/22 3:37:30 PM,958
11/5/22 3:37:38 PM,956
11/5/22 3:37:52 PM,958
11/5/22 3:38:00 PM,956
11/5/22 3:39:41 PM,965
11/5/22 3:39:52 PM,958
11/5/22 3:40:00 PM,951
11/5/22 3:40:08 PM,956
11/5/22 3:40:18 PM,956
11/5/22 3:40:27 PM,956
11/5/22 3:40:41 PM,960
11/5/22 3:41:18 PM,958
11/5/22 3:41:27 PM,953
11/5/22 3:41:53 PM,953
11/5/22 3:42:03 PM,953
11/5/22 3:42:10 PM,953
11/5/22 3:42:19 PM,951
11/5/22 3:42:24 PM,951
11/5/22 3:42:31 PM,951
11/5/22 3:42:38 PM,949

And here is a screenshot of the graph from all that. You can see the decline in velocity as the bottle goes down and you can see the two low shots (928 & 888) because the reg crept like 10-15 bar and was a little to much for the hammer spring. We did not ever adjust the reg, left it at the same setting it was in my review video ~130 bar. The second 5-mag string (after filling) seems to be a step higher in velocity overall than the previous 5 mag shot string..... break in?

I hope this helps anyone thinking about a Krait. You can draw your own conclusions from this data. I'll bite my tongue except to say I think this thing needs a better reg design that doesn't creep and is more consistent. We are thinking about modifying this gun to have a bottle reg, thereby double-regging this thing for hopefully better consistency. Still need to figure that part out in terms of finding parts, etc. We will shoot it more and if this reg keeps creeping we will have to contact Airmaks again...

 

[MikeVV]

Hmm.. The big drop in speed is one thing, but the seemingly continuous downward trend in the given shot strings (sorta divided by the big drop !) isn't a nice thing !

Boy, I think that this more than MOST guns has gone through more, "in depth" scrutiny than most all other guns in the past couple of years. All looking at the way that the regulator works...or doesn't !?

I wonder if the AirMaks, and Utah Airguns guys have been keeping up with the reading of the testing that a couple of guys here are doing ? If not...they should be !!

Mike

 

[Vetmx]

First, yes Utah is working on figuring out their gun. Second, when you have a ever descending shot string with a single reg, you have too much hammer spring. Airshootist is shooting all that lead with his hammer spring set too close to the plateau.

 

[AirShootist]

Vetmx - I don't think that is the case. I mean the operating pressure is changing as the tank pressure goes down. That is gonna change your velocities regardless of hammer spring tension.

Parts on on order to double reg this thing. It's actually super easy and will cost less than 35 galactic credits. All you need is a M18 adapter and a M18 threaded reg for your bottle.
Basically you install the paintball style reg in your bottle, then screw that into the M18 adapter then screw that onto your gun. I'm going with a 2200psi output (151 bar) reg, this way my operating pressure of 125ish will have a nice little buffer of 25ish bar differential of preregulated supply air. Similar concept to the 20-50 bar differential for my FX Maverick regs.

This also gets rid of the stupid fill probe and then your gun will have 3 gauges, 1 for bottle pressure, 1 for pre-reg pressure, and 1 for reg/operating pressure. Pretty slick! This double reg mod would actually work for almost any PCP that uses a m18 threaded bottle.

Here are the links for anyone who wants to do this. You're welcome!

REG: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203756174860
Adapter: https://amzn.to/3UoIDbI

Once we do this I'll post a video on the channel with results. I think this will fix this gun entirely.

 

[Sc0-]

So by double regging, reg creep would be less? Looking at the Ninja flex adjustable regulator...

 

[Vetmx]

Single reg guns since their inception will follow the bottle pressure if you are set on the plateau or too close to it. If you are set too far below the knee on the downslope you will get a rise in velocity as your tank empties. That’s the pcp 101 I spoke of in our PM’s. I have my velocities at 260b matching my velocities at 160b right above my set point. That hammer spring is very sensitive. Wasn’t easy finding that setting. Because of this guns sensitivity, a double reg crutch may be necessary. When you tune any good one reg gun with a traditional hammer system, they just don’t have a drastic reaction to a little reg creep when you do it right. This gun is exceptionally affected by it. Even a crapper Chinese paintball reg that will creep could take the stress off the Krait reg and things will be better. I was contemplating putting a reg in my tube. But because my gun isn’t a powerhouse, I’m not sure if I want to give up plenum space. I also don’t know if I want my bottle out 2 more inches. The big long Kraits, no problem.

 

[Vetmx]

Here’s how sensitive the gun is to reg creep. This is the plenum reg pressure gauge. It’s not digital but my numbers are close enough to paint the picture. 141b=876fps. 139b=921fps. 135b=935fps. So at my current hammer setting I can creep from probably 134b to 139b and not have any accuracy issues or first shot squirrel with his foot blown off problems. My RTI can creep 10+ bar and my first shot out to 50 yards is dead on.

 

[Vetmx]

This is how far I’m off with my first shot at 25 yards. The small group down to the right is once the engine is running. Now I will let it sit for 30 minutes and fire my first shot over the chronograph at the one hole group.

 

[Vetmx]

The only other thing to consider with slapping a bottle reg on the gun is plenum space between the regs. How much air do you need between regs to make that system function perfectly. Is it necessary or not.

 

[Vetmx]

I just took a look at the adapter link AirShootist provided. I hope you realize you are moving your bottle 5+ inches forward when all is said and done. It’s going to look stupid so I hope it works. If it’s going to be a bench gun, who cares how far the bottle is hanging out on a limb.

 

[Mike_Lenardon]

My Krait showed up today...have to call Utah tomorrow and see what their going to do to get this p.o.s. shooting correctly. Their test sheet said 900 fps avg.. First 3 shots 619, 676 and 726
What a disappointment

 

[darylm]

How tf does Airmaks put out such a lemon like this?? I was 100% gonna buy this rifle based on the fact that the Caiman and the Katran were both widely praised as great guns.