Anyone here measured the cocking effort for a Cricket 25 or a Mutant?

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zebra

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Sep 29, 2015
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New York
I know this is an odd question...

I am in the process of ordering parts for my push-button electric forward cocking mechanism for these two pups to go with some new stocks I am working on.

I need to know if the solenoid I am ordering has enough force to pull the hammer back and if the spring return is strong enough to push the pellet probe forward and chamber a pellet. I don't have one of those gauges that people use to measure the weight of the trigger pull but I know some people here do. I was hoping someone who owned one also owns a Cricket or Mutant and would be willing to measure it for me?

I was going to use a manual lever to create a forward cocking function but I can't resist the idea of using a simple micro-switch butting on the forend...
 
"jfrazier30"oh! i like where this is going!
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It's going to be awesome if I can find a Solenoid with enough force and that doesn't weigh a ton.

I'm not looking to make it semi auto but a conveniently placed micro-switch to replace the side-lever would be sweet.

If I can make that work then phase two will be to build in dual triggers and cocking buttons so one of my guns can be both a rifle and a bullpup. I have an Uzi metal folding stock which is perfect for the project as it will work as a bullpup buttstock when closed. 



 
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"zebra"
"jfrazier30"oh! i like where this is going!
Click to expand...
It's going to be awesome if I can find a Solenoid with enough force and that doesn't weigh a ton.

I'm not looking to make it semi auto but a conveniently placed micro-switch to replace the side-lever would be sweet.

If I can make that work then phase two will be to build in dual triggers and cocking buttons so one of my guns can be both a rifle and a bullpup. I have an Uzi metal folding stock which is perfect for the project as it will work as a bullpup buttstock when closed. 



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I like the way your brain works. 
 
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There are some solenoids on Ebay..5N-25N force, but only 10mm stroke. Some are available from US seller for higher price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-2-1Kg-Force-10mm-Stroke-Push-Pull-Type-Electric-Solenoid-Electromagnet-/271532047324?hash=item3f38923bdc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-2A-Push-Pull-Type-Open-Frame-Solenoid-Electromagnet-Reset-10mm-20N-New-/281766041139?hash=item419a909633


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Frame-Push-Pull-Type-10mm-25N-Electric-Electromagnet-Solenoid-DC-12V-/351693357795?hash=item51e28ec2e3:g:cbsAAOSwn7JYDfw5​

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spring-Load-Pull-Type-Actuator-10mm-10N-Electromagnet-Solenoid-DC-12V/281342584284?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D14be4a5b44874460a0989bedab0e8611%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271532047324

 
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[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Those types of solenoid are a little too light duty for cocking an air gun. They would be fine for making an electronic trigger on a quality air gun (with a light trigger pulI) but pulling the hammer back will take more force. I have seen some heavy (or heavier) duty devices with a 35mm stroke which might be ok.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]If I can't find a suitably powerful solenoid with enough travel then I'll move up to a mini dc linear actuator. I have seen some with 2" of travel and more than enough force. They are a lot more expensive but not out of reach. I think some are fast enough not to be annoying. I'm not sure if taking 1 or 2 seconds to cock the gun would be annoying but I think it would be ok...[/color]
 
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I ordered the solenoids. In the absence of data I made an uneducated guess so hopefully it will work out.

I have 35mm of travel and 2kg of force to make it work in cocking a Cricket or Mutant and operating the pellet probe. 

I learnt about how the Daystate Pulsar and Airworlf works while researching this. I had assumed incorrectly that they used a solenoid valve to release air into the transfer port but they actually use a regular valve. They use a push solenoid (like what I just ordered) to strike the valve stem (poppet) instead of a traditional spring or sling-shot operated hammer like regular air guns. 

What I couldn't tell from looking at pics of the AirWolf circuitery is if there is intelligence built into the design around how the current is delivered. In theory, it is technically possible to take readings from a digital pressure meter and chronograph and use it to vary the voltage applied to the solenoid. More volts would be like increasing the HST but with it being digital, a simple program and a variable regulator could vary the force of the strike based on the current pressure reading. 

Does anyone know if that's what they do or is it less sophisticated than that? I couldn't see the required parts in the photos. 
 
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Zebra, I am following your quest with great interest.


Sharroff two weeks ago bought an after-market Airwolf replacement board on Ebay that came with a manual that describes in details how it works. You can contact him for the manual or I can send you the manual if you PM me your email address.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222315711273?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I have some micro-switches (similar to Daystate trigger - not shown here) and micro push-buttons I can send you for free if you can use them. And for what I paid ($5) a 2.1Kg and 5kg solenoid (at least that's the power they are advertised at)






I also have an extra 13C5000PA4K Honeywell 5,000psi pressure sensor (I had to buy 6 of them), and I can sell you one for the same price I paid ($23ea) if that is something you want to use.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/honeywell-sensing-and-productivity-solutions/13C5000PA4K/287-1124-ND/388817



Here are some old YF posts about the Airwolf, particularly the MVT (which I have). There maybe some nuggets of info or people with more knowledge than me, like the person with login: V1Cut.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1376472315

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1415871373

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1343303600

'http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1351241343/Scary+Electronics+for+Holloween
 
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An Arduino Pro Mini is what the processor board resembles in that e-bay picture of the Daystate board (and they are CHEAP ($3 or less) on e-bay from China). It would be sweet to get the sketch Daystate is running if it is an Arduino! The rest of the board looks simple enough. Power supply and Driver for valve and pressure sensor interface and display! The entire assembly would not take $25 to build sans valve and sensor.

Thurmond
 
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The valve should be a regular one like on any other air gun just without the hammer and spring. The hammer assembly is replaced with the linear solenoid. The solenoid piston strikes the valve stem instead when current is applied which is why the Daystate electric guns fire whenever you pull the trigger. 

I'm looking to do something different for my project. I just want the cocking mechanism to be operated by a solenoid. I.e. The solenoid pulls the hammer back and chambers a pellet when it returns to the original position. The solenoid won't replace the hammer. The solenoid piston would attach to the cam pin that is currently operated by the side lever.

I have ordered a 36v solenoid for the job. I'll probably test it with 18v and 27v using two or three 9v batteries. 

I don't have the programming skills to do anything more sophisticated but if I did, I would probably want to go in a different direction to the Daystate design. The Cricket and Mutant regulator is already more efficient. I would only add smart regulator and HST adjustments to extend the range. But... I don't have those skills so I'll stick to my mechanical solenoid cocking project for now.
 
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"fe7565"Zebra, I am following your quest with great interest.


Sharroff two weeks ago bought an after-market Airwolf replacement board on Ebay that came with a manual that describes in details how it works. You can contact him for the manual or I can send you the manual if you PM me your email address.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222315711273?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I have some micro-switches (similar to Daystate trigger - not shown here) and micro push-buttons I can send you for free if you can use them. And for what I paid ($5) a 2.1Kg and 5kg solenoid (at least that's the power they are advertised at)






I also have an extra 13C5000PA4K Honeywell 5,000psi pressure sensor (I had to buy 6 of them), and I can sell you one for the same price I paid ($23ea) if that is something you want to use.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/honeywell-sensing-and-productivity-solutions/13C5000PA4K/287-1124-ND/388817



Here are some old YF posts about the Airwolf, particularly the MVT (which I have). There maybe some nuggets of info or people with more knowledge than me, like the person with login: V1Cut.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1376472315

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1415871373

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1343303600

'http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1351241343/Scary+Electronics+for+Holloween
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Thanks for the offer but I have tons of micro switches here from one of my other hobbies. 

I also (unfortunately) have parts here for my new backup plan if the solenoid a don't have enough power or reach. I'll use the mags from my broken Uzi co2 gun to create push button operated mini pneumatic cylinders for the linear motion. It would just be powered by a co2 cartridge instead of a battery. 

Failing all that, I'll go back to a manual design which is a small piece of aluminum with a hole drilled in it to be threaded over the cam pin instead of the side lever. Then a $3 threaded metal rod attached to that with a cocking handle on the other end. That's how the Tavors forward cocking handle works....
 
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