Anyone have a sweet spot for .22 HW35E output?

[Sqwirl57]

I have a .22 35E which I know is a silly caliber for that gun. It seemed fun and it absolutely is. Currently I'm running an ARH kit and putting 15.89gr JSBs out at 600fps (12.7ftlbs). The kit is extremely smooth and I am very happy with its consistency.

My only complaint is that the gun is pretty hold sensitive and has a pretty modest amount of recoil. I was hoping someone here may have a little insight on where to go from here. Snip a coil? Toss the piston in a lathe and lighten it up some? Maybe just be happy with 1" at 30 and stoked when it does better?

Any thoughts?

Edit:

Decided to play around with some pellets and thanks to a friend's advice, gave the JSB 18s another go. They seem to group much better than the 15s and I'm really not losing an absurd amount of velocity. Definitely on the sensitive side for holds still but progress is progress.

2x 5 shot groups at 30yds

 

[thumper]

In my experience from tuning down the HW80, there will always be a fair amount of extra recoil simply due to the piston diameter and it's mass. Even after short stroking it down to mimic what a 35 would be. 

Another thing I've noticed, is the HWs tend to have large bores in .22 This can make pellet fit a little more critical/difficult, and can cause some slam if they aren't good and snug. 

Lightening the piston can cause bounce, but can be alleviated by opening the transfer port a bit. If your gun seems to have some bounce now, opening the port slightly can make a noticeable improvement in shot cycle without sacrificing any power. 

Slam and bounce will cause more hold sensitivity than anything else. Minimize both, and you're as good as it will get. 

Honestly yours seems to be making good power, and is consistent. So I doubt it could be improved much. The big pistons just "are what they are" and tend to be a little more noticeable after the shot than the smaller more efficient platforms. 

And I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I've never had any luck out of the HW .22s as far as accuracy. But they did shoot their best with the short and snug H&N FTT pellets in the 5.53mm and up size. 

I've got a few tins if you want to try some without buying a bunch. 

All that said, I've still always wanted a HW35E in .22

 

[Sqwirl57]

@thumper 

I see these terms like "slam" and "bounce" thrown around a lot and truthfully, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be feeling with the "bounce" portion of it. How what you describe what that feels like to the shooter.

I find all of my .22 HWs prefer the larger head sizes as well so I keep a healthy stock of them on my shelf. This gun does seem to do well with the 5.53 and 5.54 FTTs as well but with noticeable sensitivity issues. When I'm on my game, the groups are fantastic. When I'm not... well, there leaves a lot to be desired haha

 

[thumper]

@thumper 

I see these terms like "slam" and "bounce" thrown around a lot and truthfully, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be feeling with the "bounce" portion of it. How what you describe what that feels like to the shooter.

I find all of my .22 HWs prefer the larger head sizes as well so I keep a healthy stock of them on my shelf. This gun does seem to do well with the 5.53 and 5.54 FTTs as well but with noticeable sensitivity issues. When I'm on my game, the groups are fantastic. When I'm not... well, there leaves a lot to be desired haha

Bounce can be a little hard to detect sometimes, but basically it will seem like the shot isn't a quick "snick" but rather has a bit of as "bullump" to it. 

Usually a light or looser fitting pellet will reduce it, and a tight or overly heavy pellet will exaggerate it. To get a feel for it, take another springer you're familiar with, and put the heaviest and tightest pellet you can find in it that seals well. Notice how the shot cycle feels sluggish and lumpy? That's bounce.

I bet the JSBs fit looser in the breech than the FTTs, and if that's the case, should have less bounce than a snug fitting pellet that's harder to get moving. The pellet weight doesn't matter quite as much if one isn't sealing as well as the other.

Slam on the other hand generally feels just violent and harsh but very quick. These are the ones that wreck scopes. Think cheap uber magnums from the big box stores, or guns with loose or chewed up piston seals. Just downright unpleasant. The 30mm HWs aren't super prone to slam if the pellet fit is good to the bore, because the transfer port size is on the conservative side. Slam definitely causes hold sensitivity issues, but is more noticeable to the shooter than bounce since it's noticeably unpleasant. 

But, like I said, yours seems to be doing good, so I'm in no way pointing fingers that your gun may have any of these issues. Just shootin' the breeze! 

 

[Sqwirl57]

I've noticed that bounce sensation in my 57 with 10.3gr pellets. The gun/spring just sounds like it wants to die the second I pull the trigger.

The piston definitely seems to slam hard with the 15gr pellets. Tomorrow I'll do some more testing with some FTTs and JSBs to see how it feels. 

Thanks for the tips and explanation! 

 

[Mycapt65]

In my experience from tuning down the HW80, there will always be a fair amount of extra recoil simply due to the piston diameter and it's mass. Even after short stroking it down to mimic what a 35 would be. 

Another thing I've noticed, is the HWs tend to have large bores in .22 This can make pellet fit a little more critical/difficult, and can cause some slam if they aren't good and snug. 

Lightening the piston can cause bounce, but can be alleviated by opening the transfer port a bit. If your gun seems to have some bounce now, opening the port slightly can make a noticeable improvement in shot cycle without sacrificing any power. 

Slam and bounce will cause more hold sensitivity than anything else. Minimize both, and you're as good as it will get. 

Honestly yours seems to be making good power, and is consistent. So I doubt it could be improved much. The big pistons just "are what they are" and tend to be a little more noticeable after the shot than the smaller more efficient platforms. 

And I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I've never had any luck out of the HW .22s as far as accuracy. But they did shoot their best with the short and snug H&N FTT pellets in the 5.53mm and up size. 

I've got a few tins if you want to try some without buying a bunch. 

All that said, I've still always wanted a HW35E in .22

This is spot on excellent information!

I would also say that of the few 22 Weihrauchs I've played with none of them did great with JSBs <16gr. Accuracy with JSBs >16gr was better but they gave up so much energy wouldn't use them. In every instance the H&N FTTs had the best accuracy and energy. 

I have a hard time feeling piston bounce myself. My chronograph helps me to detect when the gun is most efficient. When stepping up pellet weight or tightness the energy will start to drop off as the gun becomes less efficient. This is a good indicator of bounce. In extreme cases you can feel the shot cycle is off.

Piston slam is more easily determined by feel and sound. Everything about it is violent and harsh. The chronograph isn't a good indicator of slam. Many guns will make their highest energy with pellets that are too light for the gun.

Both piston slam and bounce have negative effects on accuracy. IMO the most accurate pellet is often the one that offers the correct resistance to the spring. Not always but often.

Generally I go for the most accurate pellet in the upper weight range that produces near max power. This is where a chronograph becomes crucial. After you've shot a gun enough with a wide variety of weights you'll develop a sense of what feels and sounds right as Thumper explained. 

 

[Sqwirl57]

@thumper

@mycapt65

Played around with the FTTs some and had some great results in 5.54. These pellets were tested previously with less desirable results. I believe they were actually the original pellet that I tested as they are my 97Ks top choice too.

Got a nice little bump in power too. Nearly 100fps more than the 18gr

Here's a quick video of the shot cycle

https://youtu.be/_yPeZIPrkl4

Thank you guys for the comments! Much appreciated! 

 

[jaykb49]

Excellent information in this thread, thanks guys. I recently acquired a close to new HW35K in .177. I tamed its slam to a good extent with a lube tune. It's shooting 8.2 gr Meisterkugeln at 800 fps (11.6 ft/lbs). It's an awfully sweet rifle kinda chunky and slightly heavy for its size. It seems to be pretty accurate but I haven't got it out to shoot at longer distances with a selection of ammo. And no, I don't think my shooting could match the OP with any rifle. ;-)

Jay

 

[Sqwirl57]

Excellent information in this thread, thanks guys. I recently acquired a close to new HW35K in .177. I tamed its slam to a good extent with a lube tune. It's shooting 8.2 gr Meisterkugeln at 800 fps (11.6 ft/lbs). It's an awfully sweet rifle kinda chunky and slightly heavy for its size. It seems to be pretty accurate but I haven't got it out to shoot at longer distances with a selection of ammo. And no, I don't think my shooting could match the OP with any rifle. ;-)

Jay

You're going to love that rifle and .177 is definitely the right choice for it. I was in a goofy mood when I ordered mine in 22. I have plenty of .177 so a low power .22 seemed like a fun challenge. So far, it has been. 

Thanks for the compliment on the groups but I can assure you that I am just having a good weekend for them! I've put probably close to a tin through this gun this weekend so I'm more "warmed up" than usual.

 

[BryanH]

Not sure what to say here. My personal experience with the old school HW35L is pure pleasure and enjoyment. The large diameter yet shorter tube I see as a plus, it balances the weight more to the rear and makes a perfectly balanced off-hand shooter. Might not be a trophy winner but it’s a pleasure to shoot and it’s a stone cold killer. Just imo

edit- older model I believe had a larger T-port and mine was pushing probably 9 fpe in .177. Former leather seal gun converted to synthetic.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Not sure what to say here. My personal experience with the old school HW35L is pure pleasure and enjoyment. The large diameter yet shorter tube I see as a plus, it balances the weight more to the rear and makes a perfectly balanced off-hand shooter. Might not be a trophy winner but it’s a pleasure to shoot and it’s a stone cold killer. Just imo

edit- older model I believe had a larger T-port and mine was pushing probably 9 fpe in .177. Former leather seal gun converted to synthetic.

I'm in agreement. The gun is absolutely a pleasure to shoot AND to look at. I've put quite a few through mine this weekend and it seems to be doing much better now that I've swapped pellets (duh!). Regardless of whether or not it is my most accurate springer, it certainly is one of my favorites. 

 

[thumper]

Not sure what to say here. My personal experience with the old school HW35L is pure pleasure and enjoyment. The large diameter yet shorter tube I see as a plus, it balances the weight more to the rear and makes a perfectly balanced off-hand shooter. Might not be a trophy winner but it’s a pleasure to shoot and it’s a stone cold killer. Just imo

edit- older model I believe had a larger T-port and mine was pushing probably 9 fpe in .177. Former leather seal gun converted to synthetic.

The older leather sealed ones also had less swept volume, from a slightly shorter stroke. 

 

[BryanH]

Wish I still had it. I really want an old school hw35L in .22.