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Another N50 at 100y

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thomasair

thomasair

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Nov 6, 2016
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Colorado, United States
Was a beautiful day for January in Colorado. Temps got up to 55 and wind was fairly light at 3-5 mph. I had just shot some great 50y cards so I thought I would try 100 again.

I shot 5 or 6 on the box below the target to get my elevation before getting on the card. I should have let my scope settle a little more before starting. I began on the bottom row and chased up and down for the whole first row. I got off target and shot another 4 before getting back on.

I scored t the target with the .350” Sportsman plug. Thomas Slug gun shooting 44gr slugs at about 840. I’m pretty sure a 250 is possible with a little luck and a bit more patience before starting.

Mike 

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Thanks…it’s another world compared to pellets. Wind drift is very close to 50y with 22 RD pellets. Still doesn’t quite make it into the precision category at 100y. The fact that normal sized targets could be used at a 100y match in average conditions means it’s moving in the right direction. This is the 2nd attempt at 100 on these N50 cards. I think with a lot more practice mid 240s could be averaged. That’s respectable I think at 100y.


Mike 
 
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So 12 bulls in a row with 10's if you started shooting from the top then moving left or right. Was that how you shot it or did you shoot it from top to bottom then move over?

If you shot it the former way do you think that by the end of your card where the precision was decaying that it was wind causing problems with vertical or that the barrel needed cleaning?
 
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Thanks….I will see if Joe or Lou can try a card or two with their Unlimited Rimfires at 100.

I shot from bottom left to top in a serpentine fashion. I think the lackluster start was simply getting on the card too soon. I shot another 1 or 2 into every sighter after finishing and they were almost all better than the first couple rows.

Mike 
 
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Mike, more power to you! (In foot-pounds, or in volts, or in muscle tissue, or whatever you prefer....) 😄



Very, very cool.

And a great idea of having trusted airgun smiths assemble your rifles now — more opportunities for more shooters to get their hands on one of your precision monsters!! 👍🏼



Very happy for you. 😊

Matthias
 
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Lou, just admit it….you don’t want to walk that far. 😀

Dave….if you look at the 5 shot groups by row from top to bottom they measure out about 3/8”, 3/8”, 1/2”, 3/4”, and 1”ctc. Average of all 5 rows is about .6”….or about .6 MOA. That jives pretty well with the average MOA I see at 50y. It’s also pretty close to a 50 shot total 5 shot group average sampling that I did a while back at 200y. I think it averaged .66 MOA. It’s an honest .5-.75 MOA AVERAGED gun…..not to be confused with an OCCASIONAL .5-.75 MOA gun. Occasionally it’s less than .25 MOA at 100 for 5 shots….and sometimes far less.

Mike 
 
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I really feel like this is the future of competitive BR air rifle shooting. There is simply nothing that a pellet can accomplish at any distance that is superior. A shooter being able to produce his own ammo is priceless. A slug made from a simple one piece squirt die body will always be concentric, uniform diameter, and of exact weight. I don’t even look at the slugs that come out anymore. They are all near perfect.

The tech required to make your own bullet die is next to nothing. Even manufactured dies are inexpensive and well within the reach of any competitive shooter. 500-650$

Im baffled as to why things keep moving in the same direction as always. I encourage you to step off the merry go round and start to take control of your own destiny. 😀

Mike
 
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I really feel like this is the future of competitive BR air rifle shooting. There is simply nothing that a pellet can accomplish at any distance that is superior. A shooter being able to produce his own ammo is priceless. A slug made from a simple one piece squirt die body will always be concentric, uniform diameter, and of exact weight. I don’t even look at the slugs that come out anymore. They are all near perfect.

The tech required to make your own bullet die is next to nothing. Even manufactured dies are inexpensive and well within the reach of any competitive shooter. 500-650$

Im baffled as to why things keep moving in the same direction as always. I encourage you to step off the merry go round and start to take control of your own destiny. 😀

Mike
Click to expand...

Yep no sorting, the first slug is 99.9% just like the other and on down the line to infinity, kinda, because I couldn't say if the dies ever wear out or not but probably not as much as I shoot.

Is it time consuming, yep a little, but a price I gladly pay because the outcomes are what I've been looking for for 40 years as far as airguns go. Eh, go out to the shop for an hour 3 days week, crank em out, and I've already got enough to last for a couple months of shooting sessions saved up.

Glad I took the chance and jumped off!

Grateful, Thanks Mike.




 
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No one can argue against the results, very impressive 100 yard shooting. 

BUT, "to step off the merry go round" of mass-manufactured pellets or slugs (I assume that's the implication here?) doesn't seem as easy as you're trying to make it sound. The "system" producing this accuracy is quite custom. First off, your barrel knowledge is special, as is your machining talent, as is your tenacious strive for perfection. Those facts (and others I'm sure I'm not even aware enough to acknowledge) coupled with special barrels and custom? swages, well, all that is an amalgamation of unique/rare characteristics that a guy simply can't get when they buy something mass-produced. 

If you can crank out 50 guns a year capable of these results (shooter has to be as capable as you too, which is a whole different ball of wax) and with your recently announced endeavor of bringing on those 4 known tuners/smiths to essentially increase production. we're talking about 250? guns a year.

I guess I'm just making a case for mass-produced versus custom. Our society is much more instant gratification driven than the output of custom gun/barrel/slug die systems like yours can keep up to. Which goes back to the case of mandating that mass-produced pellets be used in competitions like EBR/RMAC/PA and even the monthly XFT matches. Mass-produced are what the bulk of us can afford and/or get our hands on in a timely fashion, not to say anything of the level of dedication that dropping $5000+ on a system like this requires. That's just a financial bridge too far for many guys.

You've well demonstrated that your HPX systems are at a complete different level when it comes to 100 yard accuracy-higher than ANYTHING mass-produced. That is yet another reason why mass-produced ammo rules are in place. 
 
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Jim…the .350” is the most used plug at 100y…and 50y for that matter. It doesn’t really matter what plug is used…..the holes are still the same. You can score it by eye if you want the .224 plug score. By eye it’s a 234.

The 9 ring on the N50 cards are very close to the RMAC/PA 10. .565 vs .525. The 6 ring on the N50 is very close to the 9 on the RMAC/PA. 1.305 vs 1.350. It would probably score a 247 or 248 on the RMAC/PA.

Cole, simply copying any of the commercial slugs and using pure lead to swage your own would produce better accuracy from what I’ve seen with my own slugs and alloy experimentation. The JSB slugs and the others that are made from a split die suffer from all the same consistency problems that plague their pellets. They are also not pure lead, but a harder alloy. Getting control of your own process will give you more options and better results. 

The simple problem with most Airgun barrels is that there is a significant air gap around any of the commercial slugs. You would need a .222 slug to fill up a LW barrel….and that’s not gonna work well either. Another air associated problem is the muzzle blast created.

Chokes will not give you any long term accuracy. Sure….you may shoot some decent 3 or 5 shot groups….but you’re not gonna make it through 3 cards without match ending trouble. It’s nice if the crown is the tightest spot in the barrel….but .0001-.0002” is plenty.

In my opinion….shooting lightweight slugs in the 30gr and under category in 22 cal is a waste of time. They won’t offer the wind resistance that makes shooting good competitive scores at 50 or beyond possible in anything but light conditions….not against good rimfires, anyway.

My main point is that most hobby machinists with a very limited amount of equipment could make a slug die. If you can make one…you can make two. This gives you the ability to experiment well beyond the level of store bought offerings. We are not talking about 100k pellet machines. We are talking about a couple buck worth of steel and some time. I use 50$ Harbor freight arbor press. There is nothing complicated about it.

Starting somewhere is much better than not doing anything. Progress begets progress.

Mike 
 
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