Other Another complaint, 20 Caliber?

[crowski]

It’s really unfortunate that .20 cal. is not available in the US. I was really hesitant to initially buy into .20 cal. for fear of not being available, reading this forum.
Bought my first .20 cal. about 2 years ago. The ammo has been available here in Canada non stop. JSB 13.75 and 15.89 are both available presently. 1/2 hour from my house. I won’t run out, knock on wood.
I have a few rifles in each caliber. .20 cal. is easily my favorite. Crow

 

[Sawney Bean]

I think the decline of the .20 is related to the decline of high end spring piston guns in general. .20 caliber is just very well suited to guns in the 10-24 fpe range, which is also a range where springers shine and 30 years ago those guns ruled the roost when it came to airguns.

Nowadays PCP's have taken over that position and they can easily push larger, heavier pellets to 900 fps or more.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

If the .20 were truly superior? Then it would reflect in competition and in the field, and the market would follow… But its not the case… Bullistics aside? .177 and .22 and even .25 simply outselll the .20 and “practically perform as well. The .20 shooter should be grateful that they’re manufactured at all. The .20 shooter is simply in the minority, the market, and real world results have spoken.

Correltion is not causation. Like the metric system is for sure better than SAE... But people just do dumb things sometimes. Or maybe even marginally inferior things. And then they stick to their guns. Cause it's already worked good enough so far.

So, you really think with a lack of options for barrels and projectiles and guns... .20 is magically going to make a massive imprint on the hobby/sport? Given it's scarcity, I'd be inclined to believe it does respectively for it's lack of abundance.

 

[extradrygin2001]

If industry folks are watching this, be aware. The fans of the 20 caliber are many and we will buy guns and pellets. I am buying a few of all projectiles I can find. But if it gets too difficult to find I will do my own. I already swage lead .357, jacketed .224, jackets from 22 LR cases, 357 jacketeds, ... Buying a set of dies for pellets isn't insurmountable. But I prefer buying complete guns and a few hundred pellets at a time. I truly dislike waiting on an HW 90 in 20 when I should be able to pay and ship in the same day. I have a Sheridan and a HW 95 in 20 and a Tim McMurry pistol. PLEASE make the guns and pellets more available !¡! Be Well Brothers, Bandito.

Perhaps you should start making and selling .20 pellets. If you do a really good job at it, it might become your full time job!!!

 

[crowski]

What’s really crazy is since Covid, in Canada we can’t even order .20 cal. or .25 cal. Weihrauch’s. We got the lead but no arms. Crow

 

[L.Leon]

Correltion is not causation. Like the metric system is for sure better than SAE... But people just do dumb things sometimes. Or maybe even marginally inferior things. And then they stick to their guns. Cause it's already worked good enough so far.

So, you really think with a lack of options for barrels and projectiles and guns... .20 is magically going to make a massive imprint on the hobby/sport? Given it's scarcity, I'd be inclined to believe it does respectively for it's lack of abundance.

Whut? Am simply saying that “most”, the “majority“, despite the fact I hate that Unrepublican “term”, choose to “not” purchase the .20 despite its supposed “bullistic” superiority… The market has spoken… No need for obfuscation…

 

[L.Leon]

What’s really crazy is since Covid, in Canada we can’t even order .20 cal. or .25 cal. Weihrauch’s. We got the lead but no arms. Crow

The Canadian government simply xxxx… xxxxx socialists to our north... Super vile… Ever willing to subjugate… 500 fpe a “firearm”? (edited for using bad judgement)…

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Whut? Am simply saying that “most”, the “majority“, despite the fact I hate that Unrepublican “term”, choose to “not” purchase the .20 despite its supposed “bullistic” superiority… The market has spoken… No need for obfuscation…

So, because the market limits availability of .20, people are supposed to buy them like hotcakes?? I don't get it? Clearly I own 0 specifically for the lack of support, and nothing else. .177 and .22 work well enough. They sell well enough. They are established with considerable knowledge, tooling, and support. No one wants to bother with .20 for this reason alone. It's looked at as an odd-ball caliber. It's just an intermediate to .177 and .22. Why bother with another caliber when people will buy the others instead? And they're right. People will buy what's available. Can't buy something that doesn't exist.

 

[L.Leon]

So, because the market limits availability of .20, people are supposed to buy them like hotcakes?? I don't get it? Clearly I own 0 specifically for the lack of support, and nothing else. .177 and .22 work well enough. They sell well enough. They are established with considerable knowledge, tooling, and support. No one wants to bother with .20 for this reason alone. It's looked at as an odd-ball caliber. It's just an intermediate to .177 and .22. Why bother with another caliber when people will buy the others instead? And they're right. People will buy what's available. Can't buy something that doesn't exist.

Don’t know about “market limits” just that the .20 will always be a stepchild here in America… Bullistics aside… As all the calibers shoot “dimes”…

 

[SteveP-52]

And what pellets are they Uncle Steve? And what was Robert Beeman's reasoning for the 20 cal? I remember it seemed logical but have lost the details, but I am wondering what day I will get up and forget my name! So far I can forget something after breathing twice. LOL. Be Well Brothers, Bandito.

Uncle Steve huh...lol. H&N FTT's and JSB 13.73's are always 1 and 2 with the Baracudas a very close 3rd. Just have to reach on the shelf
Got a few more to stick in there but the count is a touch over 41,000 at the moment and a mix of everything in pic 2.

I just checked AOA's.20 cal. pellet selection...H&N 11.42 and
13.58's in stock...JSB 13.73's and 15.89's in stock...Had good luck with all
...especially the 11.42's, I never had the least bit of trouble getting .20 ammo...my first PCP I bought in 2004 was a .20 cal. I'm fortunate to own a .20 cal Huntsman Regal...I did a thread a couple years ago how sad that the Huntsman in .20 is "extinct" now except in collections....View attachment 447853View attachment 447854Just the fact an airgun is in "that caliber" something a little different, makes them appealing. Mine shoots 11.42's and 13.73's so well brings tears to my old eyes. I have a .20 HW97 also don't ask me to sell or trade either one...the Regal in particular. I know a boat load of people our there are .20cal fans and there are some sweet .20's lurking in their collections. New ones to be offered to the industry....I'll believe it when I see it.

The one rifle I'm hunting for and hope I have the money the day I actually find one but it's one of those unobtanium rifles or at least has been the few years I've watched for one.

I'm a huge. 20 fan boy I think it's just the psychological gratification of having a "rare" or "special" caliber.also, usually any rifle that is in .20 is going to be a high quality rifle....no .20 gamo swarms floating around on the other hand, I find them to be the best of both worlds between .177 and .22, a projectile that hits hard like a .22, but flys flat like a .177, at least that's what "they" say.

Don't consider them rare or special myself, just a caliber I enjoy shooting. The true oddballs in my collection of 10 are these ones. The lowly and very inexpensive Turk built Webley Valuemax .20. I own 4. The 3 in the pic and another BNIB and never been fired. One of the very few things Hatsan got very right since they made very good .20 caliber barrels that are very accurate and by accounts of most owners, a well kept secret that they were that accurate. If Hatsan had made even a couple of their own models in .20, they might well have sold a bunch.

At the end of the day, it's about enjoying the hobby and getting to shoot, no matter what caliber you choose to. Myself, I choose to shoot in all 4

 

[Franklink]

@L.Leon

Some strong words from somebody who hasn't ever experienced a .20. And that's the message it seems like @Long_Gun_Dallas was trying to convey. Easy for .20 to not be popular with their limited availability.

My .20 journey began about 6 years ago, at least in part, by reading @Motorhead talk about its ballistics superiority in the game of field target, at just under 20fpe. I've now had a total of 4 different .20 guns and can confirm that the .20/13.73 has the highest BC of any pellet under 20fpe. And in the 30fpe realm, the .20/15.89 has the highest BC of any pellet currently in production.

3 of the 4 guns required me to pay a machinist to make it happen. "The market has spoken" is on the manufacturer side, not the shooter side. The .20 would be more popular if it was more available and more people could experience for themselves that it is simply better than current .177 and .22 pellets in the 20 and 30fpe ranges.

My opinion is coming from someone who chose to compete with a .20 at American Field Target at EBR last year, and placed in the money with that .20. The lowly .20, at only 29fpe, outscored a whole lotta .22s that were putting out roughly double the fpe. I chose the JSB .20 Heavy because it has greater precision than the most common long range .22 pellet, the Monster RD. Or at least it did with the guns and pellet batches I had available to me at the time. Now, go to the .25/34 and they'll beat the tar out of the .20/15.89. Those .25/34s don't seem to have the issues that the .22/25.4 MRDs do.

Last summer I was consistently exterminating prairie dogs with the .20/15.89 out to 150yards, and witnessed by more than one individual, not just claiming to have done so. I've dropped starlings and euro doves out of the tops of the old dead cottonwoods behind my house at 160 yards with that .20/15.89, and not just a few times. I could go on and on with personal experiences of what the .20 is capable of.

At 20 and 30fpe, the .20 is simply better than a .177 and .22, that are also putting out 20 and 30fpe. And I'm willing to stand behind that in any sort of comparison somebody would like to see or do.

I would love to have a .22/60fpe pellet that shoots as accurately at long range as the .20 Heavy does at 30fpe, and does so as consistently, but the pellet manufacturers are struggling in that regard.

I'm one of the .20s biggest supporters, and that's b/c I've seen what it can do with my own eyes. More shooters would feel the same if more manufacturers were making .20s.

 

[crowski]

The Canadian government simply SUCKS… EFFING socialists to our north... Super vile… Ever willing to subjugate… 500 fpe a “firearm”? effing joke of a country, are there any men in Canada?

Should gets your facts straight. Our government does suck with Trudeau the worst ever, but whose doesn’t. Should clean your own doorstep, before you rain on others.
Of all my rifles one a HW30 .22 shoots under 500 fps.
If you’re having a bad day, wrong member to pick on. You’re the one that needs to act like a civilized man. Crow

 

[L.Leon]

Should gets your facts straight. Our government does suck with Trudeau the worst ever, but whose doesn’t. Should clean your own doorstep, before you rain on others.
Of all my rifles one a HW30 .22 shoots under 500 fps.
If you’re having a bad day, wrong member to pick on. You’re the one that needs to act like a civilized man. Crow

Apologies used bad judgement last night…

 

[rokonman]

The last batch of .20 FTTs I bought were undersized and at times would fall out during cocking. That was perhaps 5 years ago and I have only bought JSB since. Did I have a bad batch or does that leave JSB as the only .20 pellets worth buying?

 

[crowski]

The last batch of .20 FTTs I bought were undersized and at times would fall out during cocking. That was perhaps 5 years ago and I have only bought JSB since. Did I have a bad batch or does that leave JSB as the only .20 pellets worth buying?

My FTT’s are tighter than both JSB’s 13.75 and 15.89. All bought in last 2 years. Crow

 

[beerthief]

just bought HN .20 ftt and they fit just fine , shoot great .

 

[jarmstrong]

I am tempted to buy the 20 cal Marauder just because it is 20 cal

.20 cal Benjamin Marauder Regulated - Airgun Revisions

Lothar Walther Match Grade Barrel Factory Regulated Gun 1 Carm 10 shot Magazine (additionals to be purchased through Carm on-line) Turkish Walnut Stock 880fps AR's SSG installed One Piece machined bolt (no sleeving) Fully Adjustable 3 stage trigger All Airgun Revisions Exclusive guns are New...

www.airgunrevisions.com

I do not like the platform and don't need another gun,,, but it is a 20 cal ,,,or you can get UNregulated

.20 cal Benjamin Marauder - Airgun Revisions

More Information Powerplant PCP Lead Pellet Velocity Up to 1000 fps with .20 caliber Action Bolt Action Length 42.8 in Product Weight 8.1 lbs Barrel Material Steel Barrel Type Rifled/Shrouded Lothar Walther Foot Pounds of Energy (FPE) 21.00 ft-lbs Front Sight None Rear Sight None Material Metal...

www.airgunrevisions.com

if I could find a HW 100 carbine in 20 cal,,, ya hoo
I can get ammo, it is finding the guns, that is limited
20 cal is a great yard and garden gun, more whack than a 177 and flatter than a 22
can you say ,,, field target competition
I only own 2,,, 20 cal HW 50s and Beeman RX, the Beeman needs resealed to hold air and has a bent barrel I need to address, the little HW 50 hangs on the wall, breech cracked open with a pellet in her, just cock and stick out the window, hot stand by for the back feeder
the HW 50 is a keeper till I can't,,, ya know time stops for no man

 

[Bandito]

Extra dry, pellets one at a time will be for myself. I'm retired and won't do conventional work any more. Did retail for years then watched and hauled convicted felons for 20+ years. Had enough of "humanity" for a while. No business here other than monkey business and ballistics. LOL. Thanks for reminding me of the Beeman website. I can get lost there for a while. There are shiny butterflies all over that site. Be Well Brothers, Bandito.

 

[Sawney Bean]

Extra dry, pellets one at a time will be for myself. I'm retired and won't do conventional work any more. Did retail for years then watched and hauled convicted felons for 20+ years. Had enough of "humanity" for a while. No business here other than monkey business and ballistics. LOL. Thanks for reminding me of the Beeman website. I can get lost there for a while. There are shiny butterflies all over that site. Be Well Brothers, Bandito.

I did customer facing work for 20 plus years and I definitely don't miss it. These days I only have to ensure that the right amounts of light and electrons are getting where they need to go and computers alert me when they aren't.

 

[L.Leon]

@L.Leon

Some strong words from somebody who hasn't ever experienced a .20. And that's the message it seems like @Long_Gun_Dallas was trying to convey. Easy for .20 to not be popular with their limited availability.

My .20 journey began about 6 years ago, at least in part, by reading @Motorhead talk about its ballistics superiority in the game of field target, at just under 20fpe. I've now had a total of 4 different .20 guns and can confirm that the .20/13.73 has the highest BC of any pellet under 20fpe. And in the 30fpe realm, the .20/15.89 has the highest BC of any pellet currently in production.

3 of the 4 guns required me to pay a machinist to make it happen. "The market has spoken" is on the manufacturer side, not the shooter side. The .20 would be more popular if it was more available and more people could experience for themselves that it is simply better than current .177 and .22 pellets in the 20 and 30fpe ranges.

My opinion is coming from someone who chose to compete with a .20 at American Field Target at EBR last year, and placed in the money with that .20. The lowly .20, at only 29fpe, outscored a whole lotta .22s that were putting out roughly double the fpe. I chose the JSB .20 Heavy because it has greater precision than the most common long range .22 pellet, the Monster RD. Or at least it did with the guns and pellet batches I had available to me at the time. Now, go to the .25/34 and they'll beat the tar out of the .20/15.89. Those .25/34s don't seem to have the issues that the .22/25.4 MRDs do.

Last summer I was consistently exterminating prairie dogs with the .20/15.89 out to 150yards, and witnessed by more than one individual, not just claiming to have done so. I've dropped starlings and euro doves out of the tops of the old dead cottonwoods behind my house at 160 yards with that .20/15.89, and not just a few times. I could go on and on with personal experiences of what the .20 is capable of.

At 20 and 30fpe, the .20 is simply better than a .177 and .22, that are also putting out 20 and 30fpe. And I'm willing to stand behind that in any sort of comparison somebody would like to see or do.

I would love to have a .22/60fpe pellet that shoots as accurately at long range as the .20 Heavy does at 30fpe, and does so as consistently, but the pellet manufacturers are struggling in that regard.

I'm one of the .20s biggest supporters, and that's b/c I've seen what it can do with my own eyes. More shooters would feel the same if more manufacturers were making .20s.

I highly respect your opinion, your meticulous approach to shooting and your willingness to share. I am not stating that the .20 “isn’t “ a good caliber ballistically. Just that the market and the majority of air gun shooters simply bypass that caliber. Based on reasons ”other” than the superior ballistics of the .20…