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An Expensive Lesson

Thought I would share an expensive lesson learned in using 10 meter air pistols.

My local gun shop owner was at one time an Olympic hopeful in International Rapid Fire. I dropped in on him to show him my air pistol toys, Steyr LP-5 and EVO-10. He commented that at the Olympic Training Center they used the LP-5 for indoor IRF practice and asked why I had purchased the EVO-10. I mentioned that I had flyers in 5 shot groups with the LP-5. He countered that it was neither a pellet or pistol problem since they used them at the OTC with inexpensive pellets and never had an issue with accuracy or reliability.

Sensing the look I have him, he promptly set up a target at 50 FT, clamped the LP-5 in a vise, and let me shoot a five shot group,with inexpensive RWS Hobby pellets - the results a perfectly round one hole group about the size of a single pellet. He stated that was what they had experienced at the OTC many years ago. It was obvious that the flyers were related to the operator rather than the machine.

A lesson learned the hard and expensive way !

The EVO-10 is much lighter that the LP-5 and thus better suited for off hand use. The LP-5 which is significantly heavier will be used for the ISSF class which allows supports.
 
Extreme accuracy is very hard to achieve. For me I can shoot one Inch at 100 hards (assuming perfect conditions and near perfect equipment) might on a good day be able to shoot half inch. I just don't seem to be able to do better then that. Or not consistently. Might get lucky. 

I was doing some very long range groundhog shooting Thursday and Friday and by long range I mean 400 yards and beyond. There are so many variables that come into play and one of the biggest is shooter ability.

One of the things over the years which I've noticed is nothing seems to be consistently repeatable.

How many of you fellows have experience something like this. You have your gun shooting dead on at 200 yards one day and the next day under what seem to be nearly identical conditions and you find the gun is shooting at inch high at 200. And if it's shooting an inch hight at 200 shots at over 300 shots are going to be clear misses. 

I was shooting high over the groundhogs consistently. And I don't know if it was me or the gun. I'd like it was the gun or some variable OTHER THEN me. 

My point is shooting groups and getting meaningful results means you have to be able to factor out the guy pulling the trigger. I can't and so what Tony is suggesting is probably true for most of us. PISSES me off. Sitting watching for a groundhog for 45 minutes at a distance which I should be able to hit reliably (based on shooting targets) and then missing. UGGG. 
 
Extreme accuracy is very hard to achieve. For me I can shoot one Inch at 100 hards (assuming perfect conditions and near perfect equipment) might on a good day be able to shoot half inch. I just don't seem to be able to do better then that. Or not consistently. Might get lucky. 

I was doing some very long range groundhog shooting Thursday and Friday and by long range I mean 400 yards and beyond. There are so many variables that come into play and one of the biggest is shooter ability.

One of the things over the years which I've noticed is nothing seems to be consistently repeatable.

How many of you fellows have experience something like this. You have your gun shooting dead on at 200 yards one day and the next day under what seem to be nearly identical conditions and you find the gun is shooting at inch high at 200. And if it's shooting an inch hight at 200 shots at over 300 shots are going to be clear misses. 

I was shooting high over the groundhogs consistently. And I don't know if it was me or the gun. I'd like it was the gun or some variable OTHER THEN me. 

My point is shooting groups and getting meaningful results means you have to be able to factor out the guy pulling the trigger. I can't and so what Tony is suggesting is probably true for most of us. PISSES me off. Sitting watching for a groundhog for 45 minutes at a distance which I should be able to hit reliably (based on shooting targets) and then missing. UGGG.


I completely agree with you. I see guys commenting here complaining about groups that are outstandingly tight and they think that tuning will improve already outstanding accuracy. Actually, I think most of these accuracy problem threads are masked bragging rights for the shooter. It isn't just the gun boys. I have no idea if my Crown will shoot same hole groups at 30 meters. I know I can't. I have complete confidence that the cause of every miss is me, not the gun, not the pellet or the phase of the moon.
 
Well I think you can get rid of most of the most shooter error by clamping the (air) gun down on a heavy vice like the one by ctk and pointing it at the target. Provided that you have everything tied down and clamped, you should be able to see how accurate the gun is and it's limitations. Any deviation from one hole groups is the pellet, gun, scope(parallax), or wind.

However, clamping down the gun does wonders to check if it's you or the gun. Don't second guess yourself when someone tells you that you need to sharpen up your skills when in reality the gun/barrel/reg/etc/setup is faulty.
 
I had sort of the same experience. Crosman 1701P, couldn't get really tight groups at 20 feet, let alone 10 meters, so I built a small support for one of my camera tripods to hold a bag. Rested the gun on the bag to eliminate most of the user error, and BEHOLD! a really tight group with one 5 shot hole. In my case, The gun is shooting perfectly, the shooter needs help. Shot with extremely cheap Gamo wadcutters.
 
If you shot off a machine rest in a controlled indoor environment you would be eliminating many if not all of the shooter errors.

I haven't seen any one post groups shot under those conditions. My comments were based on real world conditions which most of us shoot under.

The biggest "issue" I see is groups are posted that consist of one group each for a number of different pellets . One group proves nothing especially if the differences are minor (which often they are) At fifty yards saying that a one inch group using one pellet as a winner while an inch an a half group with another pellet is a looser is meaningless.

What drives me nuts is that often for me at least shooting the next day or next week the results may be reversed You have to shot A LOT to prove much unless and of course you can either shoot off a machine rest or you are a heck of a lot better shooter then I am. 

I also hear a bunch of shooters call a shot out of the group as a " I pulled that one" can't do that either What's one the paper is what's on the paper 

In addition shooting at relatively short distances make it MORE difficult to find THE pellet. I see groups shot at AOA at 20 yards indoors and then using that to say the gun is accurate. This is better then nothing but it doesn't tell you much if anything And would they show you a bad group? No they would shoot it over.




 
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