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American Air Arms .357 Slayer

Aloha Lou,

The last time I spoke to Tom was in the beginning of this year, I asked him about the 308 and 452 production and availability, while discussing the guns I asked about the power each would produce and depending on the weight of the slugs and speed, the 308 is capable of 250+ fpe, the 452 is capable of 500+ fpe. I do know that he told me he's not taking any orders for guns so my hopes on getting another slayer in 452 is slim to none. As for hunting deer, I'm not sure because here in Hawaii we only have 2 islands that have deer on them and DLNR has not approved Airguns to be legal in specified hunting areas, I (we) can hunt on privately owned land with Airguns.

Aloha,

Keone
 
what is the fpe rating of 308 and 452 ? do these make the min requirement for hunting deer?


@jwrabbit123 minimum requirements of caliber and energy for deer and other big game hunting varies from State to State. 

As far as the .452 Slayer goes, the PFE rating is 400-700 pfe. That is wholly dependant upon the slug weight and the speed (tune) you have in the valve and spring. For example, the numbers given by Strelok Pro with the .452 Slayer using the NSA 254 grain HP-BT pushed at 960 fps is producing 520 pfe at the muzzle. Whereas the NSA 350 grain HP-BT pushed at 950 fps is 701 pfe at the muzzle. 

I have no doubts that the .452 will see these numbers. My .357 Slayer, with no adjustment between slug weights, will push a 120 grain slug at an easy 1010fps, a 140 grain at 960 fps, and a 153 grain at 930fps, all with 3500 psi starting fill pressure. The extreme spread on the first four shots, (in each caliber), is within 8fps, and the fifth is only down around 15fps from the max fps, depending on fill pressure and caliber. They are a great engineered rig, and extremely accurate, that is for sure.
 
i hunt in urban areas too, and I use a donny FL emperor on my .452 and my XP Fifty Eight- here's what you get:

Unsuppressed both guns 130-133 dB

Emperor Mk I - 117-118 dB

Since I happen to know a little bit about sound - added approx 100 1mm holes with a dental drill - 115 dB

why 1mm? largest size hole through which air can travel through without sound compression waves traveling with the escaping air

is it worth all the extra trouble to shave off 2 dB? well i think yes, remember sound intensity is a logarithmic scale scientifically speaking, but human perception is very different than measured intensity (dB)

so the suppressor reduced intensity by average of 15 dB which scientifically is a whopping 95% reduction in measured intensity, but unfortunately thanks to how dynamic human hearing perception is, its really only perceived about 1/3rd the bang you hear with suppression. 

interestingly the extra 2dB from drilling extra 100 1mm ports into the suppressor with a dental drill technically reduces the intensity another 40% (117 dB vs 115 dB)but is just barely perceivable by the human ear as sightly quieter. 

overall though i think they're very much worth it because of this concept - sound decreases in intensity as a squared reduction from the sound source, so the faster you can get a sound source to hit 50dB then neighbors, cops, and other animals (like wild pigs) stop noticing it, and that's really the point of using suppressors is to get the report to be as small as possible at say 20 yards. think, normal conversations are 70 dB, and loud claps are 90 dB. double the distance from the sound source gets 1/4 the intensity.


 
Hi Gents,

I realise that this is over a year old thread.

I just wanted to find out if any of you have been able to get hold of AAA lately?
I have been calling and writing emails since August 2020, and haven’t had a single of my calls answered or email responded to between that time and now. I am not sure what to think as I have an order for a slayer running into 14 months now. Is Tom well? Is the company still up and running?

I am also curious as to if anyone has had their order for Slayer filled since Kaeokini & AirgunNH?


Regards,
 
Good to know Steve. Thank you.

I see also that his EVOLs are rolling through at AOA which means he is still in business.

Anybody got a Slayer .357 lately?

Three Slayer orders are left to be fulfilled and apparently those are near complete. The EVOL's are more of a demand than big bores. I had the first EVOL made and I waited near two years for it. Well worth the wait IMO. Best to call and leave a message or send him a PM here @slayer 
 
Been patiently waiting for mine... 14 months now. One of those 3 Slayer is definitely mine. My trigger finger has been itching quite a bit.

@Crosman999, you must convince Tom that there is a lot of demand for the Slayers. I think that the Slayer has the potential to be a serious household name. Most air-gunners I suspect would want to have one in their collection if only the turnaround times were any faster. I want a .452 T-Rex too, my only fear is the wait times.

Tom’s products speak for themselves. I can bet that if he was to build the Slayers at the rate at which he is doing the Evols now, they too would fly off the shelves.

I will try to PM him here because he has not given my mails or calls a chance. 


Thanks,
 
Been patiently waiting for mine... 14 months now. One of those 3 Slayer is definitely mine. My trigger finger has been itching quite a bit.

@Crosman999, you must convince Tom that there is a lot of demand for the Slayers. I think that the Slayer has the potential to be a serious household name. Most air-gunners I suspect would want to have one in their collection if only the turnaround times were any faster. I want a .452 T-Rex too, my only fear is the wait times.

Tom’s products speak for themselves. I can bet that if he was to build the Slayers at the rate at which he is doing the Evols now, they too would fly off the shelves.

I will try to PM him here because he has not given my mails or calls a chance. 


Thanks,

Unfortunately speeding things up can sometimes compromise the quality. I know he's been working everyday and things have been going faster. I feel the pain of having to wait but know it will come. The Slayers are much more involved as they have a few fairly complicated parts that are unlike the EVOL's. I've had this discussion many times with him, eventually as he sells more EVOL's he can get more equipment. It's difficult now to run two different model of parts if that makes sense. They're really cool guns for sure, like military quality.
 
I have two Slayers (one a two valve screw model topped with a Vortex UH-1 AMG Huey holographic sight, the other one a one valve screw model set up with a Litton M845 night scope) that I bought used since Tom can't deliver new ones... They are great and I recognize his engineering genius but his business management is crap.

But lately I've shot my Veridium Taurus more than the Slayer as it's just as accurate and more powerful with heavier slugs (185gr with 350 FPE). The biggest advantage is you truly can GET a Taurus in less than 60 days from Brian.

https://www.veradiumair.com/term_1.html

Note I don't usually shoot that heavy of a slug as I've come to love this 150gr (weight in 40:1 as cast) and shoot it in my .357 FLEX, my Slayers and the Taurus.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/358/358-152-hp-cf4/

If you don't want to cast your own you can buy them from HiKal BigBore bullet company

https://hikalbigbore.com/shop/ols/products/saber-hp-357
 
I agree, that AAA as a business should invest in a good secretary(you know, the lady at the door, who takes calls and emails). It will make a huge huge difference. This way Tom can focus on what he does best - “The Engineering”. Another plausible approach, I think would be to build the rifles first, and once complete, send out the advertisement. Buyers will still grab them quickly anyway. At least this way it saves both sides headaches and heart pains. I imagine, it cannot be easy for one man to carry out R&D, build air rifles, product testing, product quality, manage logistics, customer support, administration, sales etc. Most businesses have dedicated people responsible for each one.

How does the performance of the “SABER HP .357, 150gr Ammo compare to the NSA 142gr on the Slayer?


Thanks,




 
Depends on if your target shooting or hunting. The NSA 142gr is swaged so it's more consistent in weight and it has a "beautiful shape" but that shapes not as necessary at subsonic. People subconsciously think that the aerodynamics is the same but it's way different, a blunter nose isn't as bad at subsonic and a sleek pointed noses isn't as effective as it is at supersonic. Plus the HP on the NSA is, in my testing in real ballistic gel, too small. It doesn't open up fired out of weaker airguns or at longer ranges fired out of strong, "higher velocity" sir rifles. At subsonic, base drag is more important than nose drag so you'd think the boattail would win but even though centerfire jacketed bullets use them the real match shooters know that they are harder to shoot well because exiting the muzzle the gas blasting around it tends to kick it around a bit and they are more sensitive to needing a perfect muzzle crown.

Interestingly, a (bare) gas check base AT SUBSONIC comes in just below the boattail in drag with the flat base way behind.

My focus is on hunting so although I want good accuracy I can accept a slight loss in accuracy due to the bullet being cast (with small imperfections) if the other factors are much greater. And second after accuracy is terminal ballistics... what does the bullet actually do in the animal. I want it to expand and do damage leading to greater blood loss and quicker, more humane death. Now centerfire smokeless powder burning rifle bullets going supersonic open up with small HPs but not so good at subsonic which basically all big bore air rifles operate at. The 152gr cast has a big HP DESIGNED to open up at subsonic velocities yet carry enough weight in the base to give good penetration (enough to cary through the broadside of a deer and exit in a bigger hole so it bleeds out quicker and leaves a better blood trail).

So are you hunting paper...

Or are you hunting live game?

That's why I chose to practice and hunt with the 152gr cast bullet instead of the swaged NSA. It's proven itself on both hogs, feral animals, varmints and deer.
 
Wow sir!! Extremely insightful information. So much to learn from you. I honestly don’t do paper, except when I am Zeroing and validating holdovers. If this ammo is as potent on game, as you described it, I may definitely have to try it out when the Slayer arrives. What sort of FPE are you getting with the 152gr configuration? 
 
We're talking Slayers here but it applies to many air rifles. First of all, a bullet flying in the transonic region is being whipped back and forth by the base drag tail... Well, whipping around randomly. This is why many supersonic centerfire bullets suddenly lose accuracy at extreme range as the bullet slows down into the transonic velocities. Transonic starts around 950ish FPS (depending on temperature) sooooo...

I keep my velocities down around 930 to 940 FPS. Of course the Slayer can be tuned for higher velocities BUT you actually get a very good curve at 930 (note that Slayers suffer from sticktion so you have to fire a blank shot before you go out hunting or a practice shot at the range. Tom HAS a redesigned valve that reduces this but who knows if it'll ever get produced and sold).

The nice thing about this velocity is it gives a nice trajectory too. At the range you know what it is and it's traditional to sight in at 100 yards. I'd argue based on experience that you try something different. Range estimation while hunting is the most difficult thing to do well and most people are bad at it. But it's critical with our looping trajectories if you want to humanly take game.

So try this. Look at a trajectory table (for most any slugs BC, not pellets as they are different) and use the velocity of 940 FPS. I use Chairgun or Stralok Pro, either works. Set your zero for 85 yards and notice that at 50 yards your 3" high and at 100 yards your 3" low. This is called 'point blank targeting'. If you're out hunting and you see your deer or hog and your off a bit in your range estimation you will still hit very close to your aiming point (hopefully you were aiming at their vital zone)

So my .25, .284/7mm, .357 and .457 air rifles are all tuned to 940 FPS and all my sights are zeroed at 85 yards. I can switch from rifle to rifle and expect to use the same sight understanding across them all.

Finally, to answer your question about FPE, a 150gr slug at 940 is putting out +-290 FPE at the muzzle. At 100 yards that's dropped to 239 FPE

I'm satisfied with that at under 100 yards for hogs and it's legal for deer in Texas (has to be over 215 FPE at the muzzle but I consider that too low, they should have set it higher. I also disagree that a .30 of 150gr at a FPE of 215 FPE, which is the minimum is adequate. I recommend minimum of .35 caliber and 245 FPE to the game commission)

Note: the problem with heavier slugs is the are SLOWER. They technically get a higher FPE but the slower velocities give a much more arching trajectory. Increasing the difficulty where the average person hasn't estimated the range correctly and then probably doesn't know his trajectory adequately and either luckily misses his deer or hits it poorly and wounds it to run off and die unrecovered. So always going for max FPE isn't always the best strategy.

So not a fan of the 185gr slugs at 800ish for REAL WORLD hunting at longer ranges. If your shooting 35 yards or less, fine, go for it. And experience has shown that the 130gr or less can have erratic, less than lethal results, hence me settling on 150gr in the middle. I HAVE killed hogs with a stock .25 Marauder using 25gr pellets at 12 to 20 yards and BRAIN shots but I don't do that anymore and doni think most people could do it or should do it. We've got big bores today and they are wonderful, no need to use inadequate air rifles anymore. I know some skilled hunters who have used 81gr .357 pellets to take deer in the states it's legal in BUT I've also heard about too many documented wounding shots with the lighter bullets too.

Around where I grew up, to feed their families people would spotlight deer at night and shoot them in the head with .22LR. it killed the deer and was quiet so less chance the game warden caught you. Air rifles really aren't much more powerful so shot precision is more important but you still need to have enough power / FPE for the less than ideal shot.

I could write 10 times more than I have on terminal ballistics and lethal wounds but I'll say that all that knowledge also figured into why 150gr HP instead of a 130 or 185gr instead. Enough to do the job there too but not too much to be wasted (you want the projectile to exit to cause a second bleeding hole BUT ant excess velocity is just wasted. 150gr dumps enough energy inside but still has enough to exit.
 

ctshooter

Member
Oct 30, 2018
2,833
62
CT, United States
    Good to know Steve. Thank you.

    I see also that his EVOLs are rolling through at AOA which means he is still in business.

    Anybody got a Slayer .357 lately?

    Three Slayer orders are left to be fulfilled and apparently those are near complete. The EVOL's are more of a demand than big bores. I had the first EVOL made and I waited near two years for it. Well worth the wait IMO. Best to call and leave a message or send him a PM here @slayer

    Dana - best news I've read in a long while. I ordered a .357 13 months ago so I'm hoping one of these is mine. Would be great to have it for when the local range opens up again this spring.