Altaros M2010 New PCP Airgun for 2023
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No we are quite a few EURO boys hanging out in here too, and the rest of the world too..
But yeah Altaros / any brand should very much consider the US market, not doing so would be a problem i think, so not sure what is holding the guys back.
But yeah Altaros / any brand should very much consider the US market, not doing so would be a problem i think, so not sure what is holding the guys back.
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Probably some kind of restriction. Hardly any manufacturer puts the brakes on entering the biggest markets just for fun
ITAR prevents at least ordering from the USA.. Just wondering...
ITAR prevents at least ordering from the USA.. Just wondering...
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If im not mistaken i beleive it is housed in the shroud, around the barrel. I think thats how they did it on their other rifle
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No the M24 have a cosmetic shroud / maybe for some moderation, but it are not able to hold high pressure.
You can see the small below barrel reservoir here, in the M24 hidden by the stock.
I like to see a fatter shroud on the M24 maybe 45 - 50 mm, but then able to hold high pressure, it should give a considerable volume lift, even if you have to make the reservoir wall thick to be able to stand up to a high pressure.
I am not too happy about the rifles like my Vulcan 3 that come with some moderation on the barrel inside the shroud, i would prefer a 80 mm longer barrel and then a screw on moderator of my choice.
You can see the small below barrel reservoir here, in the M24 hidden by the stock.
I like to see a fatter shroud on the M24 maybe 45 - 50 mm, but then able to hold high pressure, it should give a considerable volume lift, even if you have to make the reservoir wall thick to be able to stand up to a high pressure.
I am not too happy about the rifles like my Vulcan 3 that come with some moderation on the barrel inside the shroud, i would prefer a 80 mm longer barrel and then a screw on moderator of my choice.
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First of all, I thank everyone for their comments and I'm glad that you like the rifle, because for us it means giving it a significantly higher priority in our schedule than originally planned.
Due to the fact that the functional part of the rifle is generally the same as the M24 (certain improvements), it is not necessary to develop anything new or there will be a problem when introducing serial production. On the other hand, we are dealing with serial delivery of the stock, and I don't think the rifle will be on the market before mid-2023.
stock: it is a combination of CNC machined parts and aluminum castings, for PCP the stiffness of the stock (chassis) is more than sufficient even for this performance. Fully adjustable design.
The design is a modernized version of the M24 in the US Army, that's why the same name was chosen for the PCP version as well:
en.wikipedia.org
Magazine is not exactly where you all think it is, but wait a moment for its location.
The current version was 6 shots, but it shouldn't be a problem to make a larger 10 shot, for PRS type competitions.
The size of the airtube is, with today's power of airgun, an outmoded parameter. I still maintain that 10 shots is more than enough and then they shoot anyway with a connection to a large bottle, as can be seen with other YouTubers. It's just more convenient.
When I go shooting, it's about 100-200 shots and I usually need a 4-7L full bottle for that (depending on what type of rifle and what power). So for me it doesn't matter if the rifle gives 10 or 80 shots. I have to have a big bottle with me anyway.
For game hunters, even 5 shots are often more than enough.
We will gradually add more information as we have it.
So that it can be seen that Altaros M2010 it is Altaros M24 just in a different coat and with magazine, I'm adding this video, which is primarily about the use of our ATP King .22 slug in barrel FX superior heavy 700mm.
The same M24 rifle, only a model designed for testing slugs in different barrel manufacturers and types -
I warn you in advance that we do not and will not offer these M24s with this Oryx stock, as it was not possible to come to a reasonable agreement with Oryx company.
I have had 2 PCP rifles with this Oryx chassis for about 2 years now, so it's not something new from my side, just a gradual introduction to the public.
here I am copying the text below the youtube video:
Ammunitions: ATP King .22 40 grain, dieamter 5.50mm ( .2165 ) - CNC turned lead slugs More information about Altaros ATP King: https://www.militaryairgun.com/domu/184-atp-king-550mm-22.html
Barrel - FX superior heavy 700mm
Airgun: Altaros M24 - model for testing slugs in diferents barrels brands and types
Stock: Oryx chassis for Remington 700 LA
Muzzle velocity: 278 m/s - 912 fps 40gr ATP King = 100 J or 75 fpe
All 3 misses were caused by the shooter :
1 miss- bad wind estimate
2 miss- aiming too far right
3 miss- bad hold, after the shot the reticle was raised and the shot therefore went up
I this barrel I also teste ATP King .22 40 grain, dieamter 5.52mm ( .2173 ) with very similar/same result, so this ATP King its not picky about barrel diameter.
Yes exactly. Thanks sludgemaster for saving me the work of answering.
Due to the fact that the functional part of the rifle is generally the same as the M24 (certain improvements), it is not necessary to develop anything new or there will be a problem when introducing serial production. On the other hand, we are dealing with serial delivery of the stock, and I don't think the rifle will be on the market before mid-2023.
stock: it is a combination of CNC machined parts and aluminum castings, for PCP the stiffness of the stock (chassis) is more than sufficient even for this performance. Fully adjustable design.
The design is a modernized version of the M24 in the US Army, that's why the same name was chosen for the PCP version as well:
M2010 Enhanced Sniper Rifle - Wikipedia
Magazine is not exactly where you all think it is, but wait a moment for its location.
The current version was 6 shots, but it shouldn't be a problem to make a larger 10 shot, for PRS type competitions.
The size of the airtube is, with today's power of airgun, an outmoded parameter. I still maintain that 10 shots is more than enough and then they shoot anyway with a connection to a large bottle, as can be seen with other YouTubers. It's just more convenient.
When I go shooting, it's about 100-200 shots and I usually need a 4-7L full bottle for that (depending on what type of rifle and what power). So for me it doesn't matter if the rifle gives 10 or 80 shots. I have to have a big bottle with me anyway.
For game hunters, even 5 shots are often more than enough.
We will gradually add more information as we have it.
So that it can be seen that Altaros M2010 it is Altaros M24 just in a different coat and with magazine, I'm adding this video, which is primarily about the use of our ATP King .22 slug in barrel FX superior heavy 700mm.
The same M24 rifle, only a model designed for testing slugs in different barrel manufacturers and types -
I warn you in advance that we do not and will not offer these M24s with this Oryx stock, as it was not possible to come to a reasonable agreement with Oryx company.
I have had 2 PCP rifles with this Oryx chassis for about 2 years now, so it's not something new from my side, just a gradual introduction to the public.
here I am copying the text below the youtube video:
Ammunitions: ATP King .22 40 grain, dieamter 5.50mm ( .2165 ) - CNC turned lead slugs More information about Altaros ATP King: https://www.militaryairgun.com/domu/184-atp-king-550mm-22.html
Barrel - FX superior heavy 700mm
Airgun: Altaros M24 - model for testing slugs in diferents barrels brands and types
Stock: Oryx chassis for Remington 700 LA
Muzzle velocity: 278 m/s - 912 fps 40gr ATP King = 100 J or 75 fpe
All 3 misses were caused by the shooter :
1 miss- bad wind estimate
2 miss- aiming too far right
3 miss- bad hold, after the shot the reticle was raised and the shot therefore went up
I this barrel I also teste ATP King .22 40 grain, dieamter 5.52mm ( .2173 ) with very similar/same result, so this ATP King its not picky about barrel diameter.
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https://www.militaryairgun.com/pcp-rifles/123-altaros-sa-assassin-black-edition.html
Released in 2016, it was the only working 16J semi auto using exhaust air at the time.
In addition, a semi auto is nonsense for accurate shooting, just look at firearms, so no, we are not stuck in the past, but we do what is current and what our customers want.
There is also a plan for a semi-auto, but it will be built completely differently than anything that has ever been produced and will combine a semi-auto with the same precision as a bolt action, but you can't do everything at once, I have to choose, since I'm the only developer in Altaros company.
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Well when i go shooting it is more like 800 - 1000 Shots. It can easy be 4 - 8 hours of shooting.
Hence why i like single shot loading, CUZ using a magazine i shoot faster and my eye are glued to the scope, and i might be forgetting to blink the scope eye, anyway after a few hours i start to get what i call " scope eye"
Single shot loading and i have no problems as i remember to lean back and relax.
I also totally get what you say about shot count, and it do not bother me as i always shoot connected to a large bottle.
But i do think it is what hold many people back.
I would also prefer a larger reservoir even if it will probably be extremely rare that i would need that many shots on a walk.
It is sort of the same with slug weights, i prefer to shoot 13 grain, but i really would prefer if my rifle was also able to shoot 16 and 20 grain just as well, just in case i one day might need that.
I do very much appreciate your rifles look like the real thing, it is something i hope many more brands will start doing, and maybe could do more easy as new valve technology allow for better use of the air and so you do not need as big a reservoir to still have the same shot count, and personally i am very fine with 30 - 40 shots on a charge ( .177 ) It is not like i need / want 120 shots on a fill.
There are quite a few classic rifles i would like to have in a airgun version, especially if they was laser accurate.
Magazines, well in general it is only something i think about with semi automatic rifles,,,,, and here a rifle with a 10 shot magazine are just silly, but also big magazines that stick out of the side of the rifle, well also silly looking in my book, i would need to have a large specialized need to accept something like that.
It is also a reason i got a FX Maverick VS the Impact and its large magazine,,,,, the 21 shots in the Maverick magazine are plenty for me.
I do hope someone will be able to make a conventional magazine for slugs, CUZ you can not do that with pellets, but longer heavier slugs that are at least 1/3 longer than their diameter, it should be possible to stack them like a regular pistol magazine.
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I understand you, but 500+ shots in one session, say + 2 hours can be shot with pellets or very light slugs. When you switch to heavier slugs, it's physically and mentally quite demanding. Of course, physically not as much as with firearms, but you really have to concentrate on shooting. With a power of 40J with pellets, shooting is completely different and the only thing you have to deal with is the wind. Holding the rifle and other things are simple.
Otherwise the magazine is compatible with my 15.4mm long .22 slugs which are ready for a new world record. It's only 2.8 times the diameter, but magazine have a reserve ;-)
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Indeed.
I remember as a 9 - 10 year old kid shooting 15 M and then 50 M .22 rimfire, then the next summer i changed to shooting 200 M with .7.92 mm rifle, that thing kicked so hard for my tiny body, so next time i was shooting the shoulder of my shirt was padded.
I wonder what 25 shots of 7.92 mm would cost today, as i recall back then a lifetime ago i ( my mother ) paid 50 DKkr for that,,,,, today 20 cigarettes are 70 Dkkr.
This year i damaged a nerve in my Right elbow, only now 4-5 months later is the tingling feeling in my Right hand pinkie finger stopped.
I assume i had my elbow placed wrong on the picnic table i shoot from, just funny it have not happened before.
Sadly i can not shoot .22 or larger calibers, i am sort of locked to .177 until things change for the better here, and on this matter i very much doubt that will ever happen in Denmark.
I remember as a 9 - 10 year old kid shooting 15 M and then 50 M .22 rimfire, then the next summer i changed to shooting 200 M with .7.92 mm rifle, that thing kicked so hard for my tiny body, so next time i was shooting the shoulder of my shirt was padded.
I wonder what 25 shots of 7.92 mm would cost today, as i recall back then a lifetime ago i ( my mother ) paid 50 DKkr for that,,,,, today 20 cigarettes are 70 Dkkr.
This year i damaged a nerve in my Right elbow, only now 4-5 months later is the tingling feeling in my Right hand pinkie finger stopped.
I assume i had my elbow placed wrong on the picnic table i shoot from, just funny it have not happened before.
Sadly i can not shoot .22 or larger calibers, i am sort of locked to .177 until things change for the better here, and on this matter i very much doubt that will ever happen in Denmark.
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The one thing I really like is that this rifle can be mated to a chasis system. Will this still be true and available for the air gun you are producing? Not necessarily the Oryx stock, and not necessarily available directly thru you, but configured so aftermarket companies have access and the ability to make stock similar to the Oryx stock?
Allen
Allen
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Kinda funny that actually now i decided to sell my M24 and switched to an Impact for long range shooting because of absence of magazine and higher shot count.
But honestly that somebody wrote before me is very true. You are loosing a lot of customers just because no of your guns is capable for higher shot count.
I understand that you predict that everybody will be okay to shoot with these guns with bottle next of them but actually NO.
I have bottle also long hose everything but its not that comfortable. Also as now Im trying to sell it a lot of potentional buyers told me no and turned away when i told them it is capable only for 7 shots.
Not sure how this new one works but honestly the M24s stock is a terrible one. That plastic feels like im holding some airsoft in my hands or idk.
The beginning of the barrel of M24 is too tight for lot of slugs. I did an experiment with 40 grain H&N ones but you need to hit the slug with the bolt about 5 times to be able to close it. After this torture it shoots them surprisingly well.
The trigger still should be a bit better (i have the latest model of M24)
I know this gun is not supposed to shoot with pellets but the loading of pellets into it is terrible you can not push them with the bolt directly into the barrel as some slugs (JSB KOs for example) but you have no place for your fingers to put them into barrel manually. Okay its possible to do but annoying.
So why i change from a 1100 euro gun to a 2300 one? This is why. For me personally with the slugs which i need to force into the barrel and need to refill after every 7th-8th shot is extremely annoying and its ruining the whole enjoy of shooting.
First I thought like okay for me its enough if its shooting exactly enough and thats it but NO.
The most of people in the local shooting clubs hating you for lot of things and most of them are having the reason.
But I these guns like the M24 are kind of waste of knowledge. Not sure about the reliability of these guns but I think the construction and the valve are not so bad from the theoretical side. I have now and Impact with 800mm barrel and I need to tell you the M24 is much more stable and less hold sensitive during shooting with 40grain slugs. Not sure about the valve open times but I assume the M24 has a very low valve opening time as it has much less recoil than the Impact. Also for first I was like only 600mm of barrel? Yes the M24 with the 600mm is much less hold sensitive but maybe it could be more effective and use lower reg pressure and have higher shot count with a 700mm one. Yes I know LW dont really having 700mm one yet but the CZ barrels in Katrans are great and you dont need to go too far for them. This gun (M24) is a great conception I think excepting maybe the unstable pressure around the barrel. It can be a great stuff but its screaming for higher quality materials (steel,etc) instead of cheap plastic and aluminium. Yes I know that will/would push the price up but trust me there are lot of people who are okay to pay a bit more for the quality instead to get disappointed for still high price. Me personally would buy the M24 (or any other your gun) if it would have a universal magazine for any slug and higher shot count with slightly better overall quality.
So now I am curious about this new model if its excluding some upper mentioned "problems" non-perfectness. Looking forward to get it into my hands and see how is it going.
Regards
But honestly that somebody wrote before me is very true. You are loosing a lot of customers just because no of your guns is capable for higher shot count.
I understand that you predict that everybody will be okay to shoot with these guns with bottle next of them but actually NO.
I have bottle also long hose everything but its not that comfortable. Also as now Im trying to sell it a lot of potentional buyers told me no and turned away when i told them it is capable only for 7 shots.
Not sure how this new one works but honestly the M24s stock is a terrible one. That plastic feels like im holding some airsoft in my hands or idk.
The beginning of the barrel of M24 is too tight for lot of slugs. I did an experiment with 40 grain H&N ones but you need to hit the slug with the bolt about 5 times to be able to close it. After this torture it shoots them surprisingly well.
The trigger still should be a bit better (i have the latest model of M24)
I know this gun is not supposed to shoot with pellets but the loading of pellets into it is terrible you can not push them with the bolt directly into the barrel as some slugs (JSB KOs for example) but you have no place for your fingers to put them into barrel manually. Okay its possible to do but annoying.
So why i change from a 1100 euro gun to a 2300 one? This is why. For me personally with the slugs which i need to force into the barrel and need to refill after every 7th-8th shot is extremely annoying and its ruining the whole enjoy of shooting.
First I thought like okay for me its enough if its shooting exactly enough and thats it but NO.
The most of people in the local shooting clubs hating you for lot of things and most of them are having the reason.
But I these guns like the M24 are kind of waste of knowledge. Not sure about the reliability of these guns but I think the construction and the valve are not so bad from the theoretical side. I have now and Impact with 800mm barrel and I need to tell you the M24 is much more stable and less hold sensitive during shooting with 40grain slugs. Not sure about the valve open times but I assume the M24 has a very low valve opening time as it has much less recoil than the Impact. Also for first I was like only 600mm of barrel? Yes the M24 with the 600mm is much less hold sensitive but maybe it could be more effective and use lower reg pressure and have higher shot count with a 700mm one. Yes I know LW dont really having 700mm one yet but the CZ barrels in Katrans are great and you dont need to go too far for them. This gun (M24) is a great conception I think excepting maybe the unstable pressure around the barrel. It can be a great stuff but its screaming for higher quality materials (steel,etc) instead of cheap plastic and aluminium. Yes I know that will/would push the price up but trust me there are lot of people who are okay to pay a bit more for the quality instead to get disappointed for still high price. Me personally would buy the M24 (or any other your gun) if it would have a universal magazine for any slug and higher shot count with slightly better overall quality.
So now I am curious about this new model if its excluding some upper mentioned "problems" non-perfectness. Looking forward to get it into my hands and see how is it going.
Regards
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Since Explorer brought up a lot of things I want to respond to, this post will be long.
To Explorer
Thank you for your feedback on our M24 rifle. Since some of the information is written in a very negative way, I also want to include the opinions of our other customers, as others do not see the negatives mentioned by Eplorer in such a harsh way. At the same time, I will add my perspective on the matter, as a designer and shooter who has been using the M24 for 12 years.
However, there are also very interesting observations in your post that no customer has written to us yet and I will comment on them as well.
the current development will uncompromisingly lead to the fact that people will have to decide whether they want to have a shot count and be satisfied with some limited performance, or they will stop dealing with the shot count, since the most accurate systems will use such a huge amount of air that a bottle on the rifle will only for hunters in the form of a few shots. For example, as is the trend with the FX Panther, where the maximum shot count will be a similar number of shots as with the M24, i.e. around 10-15.
These are pure facts, no fabrication or opinion of mine. you can already see how many YouTubers shoot their videos with a bottle attached. What I started practicing 4-5 years ago with pellets, because it is simply much more convenient.
Yes, maybe this trend is not so noticeable at this time, but it is only a matter of time for a significant part of shooters.
That is why I give maximum priority in our company to the transition to an aluminum stock.
On the other hand the plastic stock, in turn, fulfills the function of reducing the price and makes this rifle significantly more affordable even for customers who do not want to pay high sums for an airgun. For the aluminum stock, it is necessary to expect a significant increase in price.
To Explorer
Thank you for your feedback on our M24 rifle. Since some of the information is written in a very negative way, I also want to include the opinions of our other customers, as others do not see the negatives mentioned by Eplorer in such a harsh way. At the same time, I will add my perspective on the matter, as a designer and shooter who has been using the M24 for 12 years.
However, there are also very interesting observations in your post that no customer has written to us yet and I will comment on them as well.
Certainly some customers will prefer another rifle for the reason that they want a higher shot count. I agree on this, it is due to the fact that we mainly create products that are special compared to the normal mainstream. At the same time, we are trying to change the paradigms of the industry itself. My prediction is for the future, not the immediate present. I myself remember when I solved the shot count, which was about 5-6 years ago. But I'm usually 2 years ahead of the current trend. While most had a power of around 40-50J and shot pellets, I already had a rifle with a power of 70-80J and shot slugs at hundreds of meters.
the current development will uncompromisingly lead to the fact that people will have to decide whether they want to have a shot count and be satisfied with some limited performance, or they will stop dealing with the shot count, since the most accurate systems will use such a huge amount of air that a bottle on the rifle will only for hunters in the form of a few shots. For example, as is the trend with the FX Panther, where the maximum shot count will be a similar number of shots as with the M24, i.e. around 10-15.
These are pure facts, no fabrication or opinion of mine. you can already see how many YouTubers shoot their videos with a bottle attached. What I started practicing 4-5 years ago with pellets, because it is simply much more convenient.
Yes, maybe this trend is not so noticeable at this time, but it is only a matter of time for a significant part of shooters.
yes, you are right that the stock of the current M24 is probably the biggest weakness of the entire system. It can be shot accurately, but it requires unnecessarily demanding training and effort. Shooting from aluminum stocks is incomparably more comfortable and safer for the shooter, and at the same time brings a very good benefit in the form of increased weight of the entire system (yes, for many airgun shooters, the greater weight is a disadvantage, but that's only because they haven't yet had the opportunity to find out how difficult it is to shoot a 70 -100J with very light rifle).
That is why I give maximum priority in our company to the transition to an aluminum stock.
On the other hand the plastic stock, in turn, fulfills the function of reducing the price and makes this rifle significantly more affordable even for customers who do not want to pay high sums for an airgun. For the aluminum stock, it is necessary to expect a significant increase in price.
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in this regard, I have to comment very critically on this information because no one reported this to us and I myself tried practically all slugs up to a weight of approx. 32 gr (KO, Javalin, HaN, ZAN, NSA) and we did not notice a problem with pushing into the barrel.
So practically the vast majority of slugs on the market can be inserted normally, maybe some NSAs are worse, but that is because they have an extremely hard alloy and, for example, I was practically unable to insert the NSA into the Vulcan rifle at all.
I haven't tried the 40gr Slug except the ATP King, which can be inserted normally, so this may be an exception. But it is necessary to mention whether it was a .218 (5.53mm) caliber. LW barrel want ideal 5.49mm-5.50mm, so 40gr HaN can be bought in .217 as well. The difference is very important for the force of insertion into the barrel.
The rifle is primarily built and tested for the ATP slug, only with them can it achieve the maximum accuracy and parameters that I show in my videos.
The rifle claims to be a slug with its performance, but it was originally built in 2011 and until 2018 only shot JSB Jumbo heavy pellets. I don't know what pellets you tried, but the M24 rifles I tested normally loaded JSB jumbo hevs just as well as slugs without any problems .
here I show an example of loading pellets into a barrel
if you want to put pellets directly into the barrel, that is also possible, you just need to mount the silver (aluminum) bed with the groove for the projectile out, there is a magnet and you can pull it out with your fingers
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ok, I take a small shot count, even though connecting the rifle to the bottle when shooting in a prone or benchrest position does not restrict the shooter in any way and provides more comfort (I don't have to monitor the pressure in the airtube and I don't waste air when venting the hose).
I have already mentioned the others above that you only need to choose the right type and size of slugs and you do not need any excessive force when pushing the slugs into the barrel.
I consider this to be the biggest unfair contribution of the entire post. Refer to anonymous people. We have many repeat Slovak customers who have been buying from us consistently for years. They started with regulators and accessories, through the compressor multiplier to our PCP rifles and slugs. We regularly receive very good references from them both for the goods and for the customer approach. Of course, as everywhere, there are exceptions, but only exceptions in the form of a dissatisfied customer
If you want to discuss this, start a new forum, invite unsatisfied customers and let them give specific examples and we can discuss it there. I will appreciate the feedback. But this is a whole other thread.
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All i can say if i am a GTG of airgun shooters, and someone there have a Altaros, i would very much like to try and shoot it.
But i doubt any have found their way to little old Denmark.
But i doubt any have found their way to little old Denmark.
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