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All Over The Paper

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CAlOkie89

Member
Sep 20, 2022
5
1
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
I was re-sighting my .25 Marauder after installing an HDD. I was using JSB Hades pellets and nearly panicked when they wouldn't hold even a 3" group at 25 yards.
I switched (back) to JSB Exact Kings and shot three groups of 8 that were spread less than 1/4".
I measured the head sizes of 10 of the Hades and 10 of the Exact Kings. The Exact Kings averaged 6.325 mm with a max variance of .04 mm.
The Hades averaged 6.266 mm with a max variance of .03mm.
Questions:
Is the difference in accuracy more likely due to the head diameter or the weight the pellets - or a combination of both? The Hades are a smaller diameter, but heavier than the Exact Kings.

Is there something I can do to change the size of the Hades or am I now stuck with a $32 tin of pellets that I could throw more accurately than they shoot?
 
funny! I've had exactly the same problem this evening which has led me to this forum...
I've also been trying to sight in a scope on a new rifle with .177 Hades (never used them before) after 100 shots I had to walk away either had bought a bad rifle, or scope but I could have gotten a better grouping with a 12g shotgun:cry::LOL: & normally being a pretty good aim, I'm leaning towards the Hades not suiting the new rifle.
will report back after picking up some other .177 ammo everything else i have is .22 typical.
 
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Ezana4CE said:
@CAlOkie89 not sure how or if an HDD would affect accuracy. When’s the last time you’ve cleaned your barrel? Has your Marauder ever shot Hades pellets well? That Marauder’s barrel may not shoot that particular pellet well.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly certain that the Hades pellets are the problem. They are slightly smaller in diameter and slightly heavier than the Exact King pellets which hold very tight groups out of that rifle. Do you know of any type of swadger or pellet sizer that will reform an "undersized" pellet? Do you know anyone that wants to buy a tin of .25 cal Hades pellets?
 
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Yama said:
funny! I've had exactly the same problem this evening which has led me to this forum...
I've also been trying to sight in a scope on a new rifle with .177 Hades (never used them before) after 100 shots I had to walk away either had bought a bad rifle, or scope but I could have gotten a better grouping with a 12g shotgun:cry::LOL: & normally being a pretty good aim, I'm leaning towards the Hades not suiting the new rifle.
will report back after picking up some other .177 ammo everything else i have is .22 typical.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.
 
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rangur1 said:
I find head size of pellet quite relevant. others disagree. While i'm unfamiliar with the maurader package. It is possible that is your culprit.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the input. The Marauder is a new rifle that had, prior to this experience, shot only JSB Exact King pellets. The Exact Kings grouped at just slightly over 1/4" (basically through the same hole) at 25 yards before and after installing the HDD. I'm certain that the Hades pellets are the problem. I wondering if turning down the power would help or if I should try re-sizing the pellets. I love the way the Exact Kings shoot, but I am looking for a good hunting pellet that will reliably kill small game (rabbits - squirrels - raccoons, birds) out to 50 yards, and I'm afraid that the Exact Kings are a little light for that. Any suggestions? I don't mind experimenting until I find a good round, but $30+ per tin is a bit pricey for the trial and error approach.
 
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CAlOkie89 said:
Thank you for the input. The Marauder is a new rifle that had, prior to this experience, shot only JSB Exact King pellets. The Exact Kings grouped at just slightly over 1/4" (basically through the same hole) at 25 yards before and after installing the HDD. I'm certain that the Hades pellets are the problem. I wondering if turning down the power would help or if I should try re-sizing the pellets. I love the way the Exact Kings shoot, but I am looking for a good hunting pellet that will reliably kill small game (rabbits - squirrels - raccoons, birds) out to 50 yards, and I'm afraid that the Exact Kings are a little light for that. Any suggestions? I don't mind experimenting until I find a good round, but $30+ per tin is a bit pricey for the trial and error approach.
Click to expand...
34g FX / JSB pellets for the raccoons. Squirrels either 25.4g or 34g FX / JSB and you can try polymags for birds. polymags have a generally close head size to the standard JSB than the hades will. Grab a tin of polys and a tin of 34g and give them a try. The polys should track close the 25.4g pellets as they weigh the same, the 34g will impact a bit lower due to increased weight obviously.
 
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is this worth all this trouble over the price of a tin ? a sizer is way more expensive and what is your time worth ? You already have pellets you barrel likes so ?????
Oh i am not saying you should not post it is good info to know, just if it was me i would put the tin on the shelve and move on to another pellet . But i would still post as you did .
 
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CAlOkie89 said:
I'm fairly certain that the Hades pellets are the problem. They are slightly smaller in diameter and slightly heavier than the Exact King pellets which hold very tight groups out of that rifle. Do you know of any type of swadger or pellet sizer that will reform an "undersized" pellet? Do you know anyone that wants to buy a tin of .25 cal Hades pellets?
Click to expand...
@CAlOkie89 Are you looking for assistance or for someone to agree with what you already think? There a plenty of threads about how to test pellets and finding the right pellet for an airgun. Try running a few AGN searches and you may see patterns in the responses you read.

The particular pellet you are asking about is a hunting pellet. I’m a hunter as is @Emu. I’ve shot Hades in multiple calibers from several guns. I have several tins across 3 calibers including .25. I’ve shot some well out to 75 yards. Others who have shot them and have experience are chiming in with decent advice, yet you want to cleave to your suspicions. Try searching the AGN threads. You’ll likely find that people (aside from some competition shooters) tend to sort, not resize pellets. I haven’t read of many people sorting Hades by size, which doesn’t mean that no one does, I just haven’t read about it on AGN. In regards to re-sizing pellets, you can resize larger pellets to slightly smaller diameters. It doesn’t work the other way around, at least I’ve never heard of adding mass to a pellet (or slug) with a re-sizer. It seems that more members use Hades for short to medium range hunting than anything. In doing so they tend to look for them to make a more devastating shot and larger wound cavity in order to put a small to medium sized animal down. If you want to sell your pellets wait until you have access to the classified forum and post an ad. If your price is reasonable someone will reply. Also keep in mind that when testing pellets you will end up with a surplus of pellets that didn’t shoot well and will be of little to no use to you. That’s normal.
 
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Ezana4CE said:
@CAlOkie89 Are you looking for assistance or for someone to agree with what you already think? There a plenty of threads about how to test pellets and finding the right pellet for an airgun. Try running a few AGN searches and you may see patterns in the responses you read.

The particular pellet you are asking about is a hunting pellet. I’m a hunter as is @Emu. I’ve shot Hades in multiple calibers from several guns. I have several tins across 3 calibers including .25. I’ve shot some well out to 75 yards. Others who have shot them and have experience are chiming in with decent advice, yet you want to cleave to your suspicions. Try searching the AGN threads. You’ll likely find that people (aside from some competition shooters) tend to sort, not resize pellets. I haven’t read of many people sorting Hades by size, which doesn’t mean that no one does, I just haven’t read about it on AGN. In regards to re-sizing pellets, you can resize larger pellets to slightly smaller diameters. It doesn’t work the other way around, at least I’ve never heard of adding mass to a pellet (or slug) with a re-sizer. It seems that more members use Hades for short to medium range hunting than anything. In doing so they tend to look for them to make a more devastating shot and larger wound cavity in order to put a small to medium sized animal down. If you want to sell your pellets wait until you have access to the classified forum and post an ad. If your price is reasonable someone will reply. Also keep in mind that when testing pellets you will end up with a surplus of pellets that didn’t shoot well and will be of little to no use to you. That’s normal.
Click to expand...
I am new to the PCP scene and am genuinely seeking advice and assistance, all of which, so far, is much appreciated and will be carefully considered. I will look at the AGN threads; thank you for the heads up on that. I will also do some pellet sorting and see if some of the larger diameter Hades pellets fly with acceptable accuracy. I will also buy a tin 34 grain JSBs, and one of polymags. Again, thank you for responding to my post and for offering some very good (experienced I'm sure) advice. For the record, I am a very well seasoned highly qualified diagnostician and analyst; I don't cleave to suspicions, I follow evidence. However, I am admittedly new to this sport so I recognize that I may not yet have the experience to correctly read the evidence, and therefore am gratefully relying on experts such as yourself to give me a good steer. Thanks again.
 
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@CAlOkie89 If you haven’t tried these JSB test pellets already this is an affordable means of testing pellets where you don’t end up with a lot of extras pellets that you won’t have much use for. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/...iber-assorted-weights-round-nose-160ct?p=1558

Aside from these I used to buy the smallest tins I could find and tested a wide variety of pellets until I learned which guns liked which pellets. I found success with JSB, FX, H&N, Crosman, Predator, and a few other brands.
 
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As others have said some guns shoot ammo with a good reputation and some don’t.
My 25 Compact loves Hades. It shoots an entire mag of 25.39 JSB Kings in one hole at 50 yards that is about 5/8 across. It shoots the Hades into a slightly larger hole at the same distance.
My wife’s Maverick Compact shoots JSB 18.13’s like a laser and won’t shoot the Hades well at all.
trial and error is the only cure.
 
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Hades are not good in any of my marauders, with any barrel, crosman, lw or tj and any caliber but in a .177 springer they perform well. I think the head size is too small, it seems to chamber looser than others. I would bet switching pellets will do it. If it doesnt, i would double check your shroud tension as well. Some like finger tight, some tighter. Sometimes a 1/8th turn can make a difference. Have you got a chrony? Possible too you have a tp leak, that can do the same to accuracy. Or you may have some partial valve lock and its inconsistent. Adding a hdd may not have enough dwell either, increasing the pretension some may help if the velocity is inconsistent and no leaks. Theres also the possibity you are clipping a baffle or have a leaking breech oring. But change back to the original pellets first, Hades were never good in mine. Just wanted to cover the ‘what if’ its not the pellet.
 
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I don't think there is anything wrong with normal diablo pellets for hunting. That is all I use. Out of 20 squirrels I've taken with my 2 25s, all were with normal diablo pellets and only 2 ran at all after the impact. The furthest they got was maybe 15 feet. 18 of the squirrels were taken with a H&N FTT from my P35 and 2 were taken with FX 25.4s from my Avenger. I thus don't think expansion is necessary, especially in a 25. Placement is very important but expansion may help with overpenetration or even cause them to drop a little quicker but not if it's placed poorly and not if you don't get to the vitals. Only 3 of the 18 shot with the 20 grain FTTs failed to exit. I found the pellet in all three cases under the skin after penetrating through the squirrel. Two of the non-exits were the ones that ran. Both were hit in the front of the chest and the pellet stopped behind a rear leg.

I think having an exit wound may matter as much as having some expansion of the pellet. But my P35-22 seems to shoot Metal Mags about as well as the H&N Baracuda Match it really likes so I may give them a try. It would be good to have some data but I don't really see a problem with the simple Match pellets for the Metal Mags to solve. But if I start having runners I will definitely try the metal mags.
 
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re-tried the hades in my hatsan NovaStar nope just not happening, Wadcutters fire better over 30m!

Air Arms Diablo seems to group well and i had decided to stay on those,
But I've just taken delivery of some ZAN .177 slugs 10gr, and wow a quick couple of mags and I'm seriously impressed especially on a sub 12ft especially when the air pressure was low.

looking forward to trying it after a refill....

So this was 30m low air, lying on the floor no bean bags or tripod so that's 14 shots within 1.75" / 45mm although the most surprising thing is 11 of those shots landed within 20mm think I've found something my rifle likes.:)




ZAN first test.jpg
 
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The bore, twist rate and quality of a barrel definitely comes into play here. However, certain pellets just run better out of certain barrels - Heard this before? Now let me tell you why. It comes down to the diameter of the skirt, wall thickness of the skirt and softness of the lead. JSB's seem to have the "sweet spot" figured out on this better than most. During the shot they swell up just right to seal the barrel evenly causing consistent interaction from shot to shot (same velocity). Accuracy is about consistency - This starts with pellet accuracy and barrel quality. However, I have seen barrels that do not like JSB's, but rarely are they "horrible", just not as good as another brand.
 
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