Airgun quality up or firearm quality down?

[Dhc8guru]

Strolling around Bass Pro the other day with a friend. We stopped by the rifle department so he could check out some Christmas presents. 
While holding some of the guns, it struck me of how rifles seem kinda cheap. My PB's are over 30 years old and same with most of my friends guns. So its been awhile since I held any rifles that were new.
Honestly, the quality didn't seem any better than sub $200 Gamo springer. I noticed the machining was kinda rough, heavy use of plastic and just an in general "meh" feel.
I am lead to believe that airgun quality has really gone up (even the cheaper guns) and also firearms fit and finish is really falling.

 

[Alan]

I am of the opinion that all of the arms dealers are pandering to the lowest common denominator in an effort to bolster sales. Back in the 50s when I was growing up in a sporting goods store, a really good rifle sold for under $100. Most had open sights, because the optics at the time typically sell for more than the rifle!

That latter fact is still true today, unless you consider the cheap optics from China. In the mean time, good hunting rifles are barely in the sub $1,000 area, and a very good easily double that.

You can probably say the same about airguns. The better PCPs are well over a grand, and some well into four grand territory. But the truth is, even an inexpensive, rough-shod, plastic wonder will shoot better than anything made during the 50s and 60s. 

 

[JoeWayneRhea]

I thought I was the only one noticing . I am a HUGE Ruger fan but I saw a couple guns that said Ruger on them last time I went to Academy . They looked like a Savage , and a Bad one at that !!!!
Look at today's Remingtons ..... And Weatherby , Rifles that used to be coveted after are now simply trying to prove stuff at Savage and Mossberg prices . I bought a new Weatherby 7mag less than 2 years ago and it began rusting almost over night . The factory blueing ...If you can call it that..is useless . I had the pleasure of meeting Roy Weatherby and Bill Ruger when I was younger .
Today its just a name that is plastered on anything they seem fit . Next time you are at Walmart in sporting goods look how many items say Remington ...Its a shame

 

[azuaro]

..

 

[Dhc8guru]

<cite>JoeWayneRhea</cite><div>I thought I was the only one noticing . I am a HUGE Ruger fan but I saw a couple guns that said Ruger on them last time I went to Academy . They looked like a Savage , and a Bad one at that !!!! <br /> Look at today's Remingtons ..... And Weatherby , Rifles that used to be coveted after are now simply trying to prove stuff at Savage and Mossberg prices . I bought a new Weatherby 7mag less than 2 years ago and it began rusting almost over night . The factory blueing ...If you can call it that..is useless . I had the pleasure of meeting Roy Weatherby and Bill Ruger when I was younger . <br /> Today its just a name that is plastered on anything they seem fit . Next time you are at Walmart in sporting goods look how many items say Remington ...Its a shame </div>

Funny you should mention Ruger. My friend was looking for a 1022 for his wife. I wasn't impressed with it. I have used his tricked up 1022 and like it but the stock one felt like a low end Gamo.
I guess my impression is based on my old guns that are solid and well built. This has skewed my view of how guns are should be. I picked up several high dollar guns while I was there. They still didn't have the feel of my AA S510. ​I think the reality is most people who own cheap firearms don't shoot them but once or twice a year and the manufactures know this so they are shooting for a price point, damned the quality.

 

[Dan25]

Sure airgun quality is up and that is evident in the price point of FX, Vulcan etc. Even FX understands airgun prices have gotten a bit out of control with the release of the Wildcat. That gun is priced about $400 under the Bobcat which has been their standard bull pup for years. The economy has forced firearms manufacturers to release economy guns. Guns that are all function and no cosmetics. An example is the Ruger American which lists $350 at Walmart. You will not find walnut and polished steel, what you will find is a reliable rifle that will shoot MOA all day long. If you want to spend FX Bobcat money on a bolt gun you can get fancy walnut, mirror polished blued steel and quality barrel far better than what you got in the good old days. If you shop a little you will have $300 - $400 left over for a scope.

As I look at what goes into a Bobcat or Vulcan etc. in comparison to a good quality center fire rifle I am amazed at the price of high end air rifles. You really have to want one to pay that much for what you get. Not downing FX etc. just admire their smarts for exploiting the demand for top quality air guns.

 

[Alan]

Allow me to take a bit of a detour, but not steal the thread!

It appears to me, that almost all air gunners modify their arms, especially so with pistols like the Crosman 1300 series. I'm no exception! So we need to ask ourselves, what airgun would we buy, if we knew we were going to modify it afterwards? I venture to say, it won't be anything with a gas strut and/or a synthetic stock! I believe you can say the same thing about firearms. With the aforementioned in mind, this is why I bought a Crosman 1377, a Benjamin 397, and a RWS-54! 

So, why did you buy what you bought??

 

[ncstan]

Another thing that can be over looked is the ownership of the company .Many of the firearm companies are now owned by holding companies . It would be doubtful to Me if the execs. of these holding companies have ever owned or fired a firearm .In order to get in the big box stores the quality of the weapon is compromised .If You really want a top quality firearm now You have to go to a smaller company owned by a gun person with higher standards .You will pay much more for these weapons . Now when We look at the air gun market which is much smaller and owned by persons who own and shoot their guns .If if they are owned by larger companies (the Dianna Group) They are in the pursuit of more accurate and better handling guns .The air gun market is also competing in two markets.Even so the lower in guns are not bad for the entry level shooter .But if You like Me want to shoot ragged hole groups and want fit and finish We shell out big bucks to do this . As for being better today than in the past it is not doubt to Me that American firearms are not what they use to be with some exceptions .You still can get a quality weapon but You must go through their custom shops to get the gun fitted to meet the standard of twenty or so years ago or buy from a custom gun maker.AS for the lower end air gun with Me I must state that the Daisy B 25 was in a class of it's own .Took care of hundreds of pests and took the beating a young kid could lay on it .I really wanted a 22 but Dad would not hear of it and a Sheridan pumper replaced the B25. It is accurate and durable as it has served Me and My Kids for 52 years with a couple of rebuilds and is still in service ready to dispatch pests when needed.As for the upper end of the air gun it is amazing the advancements that are being made by elite manufacturers .Even though They are competing for a piece of a small market They continue to invest time and money to improve their products .As I shoot both powder burners and Air I would like to thank those manufacturers that will not compromise their Name and continue to strive to produce the best gun They can .Stan

 

[ezerhoden14]

I agree, most newer guns don't get two looks, they serve a purpose for putting a few rounds down range before deer season and may take a (insert game animal here) that year or not. my newer Mossberg or Remington shotguns show the lesser quality, I don't own any rifles made after 1986, which is my Rem Fieldmaster and that gun is wonderful to look at, my wife has "claimed" it because it's "small & pretty"...*shakes head*.. when I take my 1954 Win. 70 to the range everyone gawks at how beautiful it is. It was my grandfathers bear rifle, and I've used it for deer. It's a shooter, but I don't reload and it's a odd caliber .358. I use my Rem 700 30-06 if I do any hunting now.. it was his also, not sure how old it is, but the 70 is much to valuable for the woods nowadays.

 

[Mentolio]

Airgun quality: I can't speak for the high end companies like FX, Daystate, Air Arms, etc...but if you're a Crosman fan (like me), I think you would agree quality (over-all) is "down." This I blame on the out sourcing of manufacturing (read: made in China). I suspect just a bit more attention from the parent company could fix these issues...the Chinese have proven before that they can build a quality product, they just occaisionally need a little push in the direction you want them to go in. If I'm outsourcing my company's manufacturing to another country, I am putting a "real hard-ass" in charge of quality control, and he's going to have the head of manufacturing on speed dial.

Firearms quality: I am an armorer for a large police agency, and I can say without doubt or shame that firearms quality is indeed "down." The department issued side arm is the Sig Sauer P220, which we received 200 units last year. Problems have included: out of box accuracy, magazines coming apart, and weapons malfunctions on the range. From Remington, we've had 5 new bolt guns (for our snipers) all have accuracy issues, stemming from ill-fitting MARS rails (accessories which were sold WITH the rifles by Remington) and bad barrels. These are guns from two MAJOR manufacturers known for a reputation of high quality standards, and being sold to a police agency in one of the more "dangerous" jurisdictions in NJ, and yet here we are with all these obvious quality issues. I suspect the firearms quality issue could be traced to the recent massive increase in demand/product "shortage" after the Sandy Hook School Shooting in Connecticut, and the manufacturers scrambling to play catch-up with that massive increase in demand. Hopefully now that the demand has leveled-out a bit, the manufacturers will get their manufacturing back under control, stop turning out sub-par product just to have something on the shelves, and honor their warranty obligations to those who received sub-standard equipment.

 

[smallbudget]

Op and all, hello. First time poster. Actually I was lurking and felt strongly enough about this post that I signed up in order to reply. Just getting my feet wet I can't respond as to air guns, though it SEEMS that the older air guns actually seem to catch my eye. Of course that could just be my geriatrics kicking in. Regarding firearms older and newer I definetely have a few observations.I can't help but feel that any issue concerning fit, finish, wood, and overall quality is, at least for the most part to obvious to dignify debate. My exception to the overall debate in so far as accuracy of before and now is notable though. The only gentlemanly way for me to definitively express my opinion of accuracy in past and present firearms is to issue a challenge. It matters not to me who can out shoot who, so the responding party will do all the shooting. Simply put, bring your modern firearm, shoot it, shoot one of mine, loser buys lunch. Best not grab my 243 though. I'm overweight for a reason, and it ain't lack of exercise. Call me confident in the Carolinas. Sorry (he insincerely) says about the rant. Op, they just don't make em like they used to, huh.

 

[Dhc8guru]

I asked a coworker who is an avid firearm enthusiast his thoughts on the subject. He said 20+ years ago there were crappy guns being made but the nice ones were not that much more expensive. Whereas now the range has widened and price doesn't necessarily reflect what you are getting. His take being that there are plenty of lower priced guns that are well built and plenty of high priced guns that are crap, its a mixed bag and it's all about knowing what is what.
He has dabbled in airguns and agree's that the quality he has seen is remarkable compared to the airguns of his youth. 

Friends who shoot my AA S510 just about crap themselves in awe the second they cock the side lever. It always ends in them wanting one until I tell them the price.
Even so, all agree that finding something that well built in a comparable caliber firearm (even at the high price point) isn't going to happen. They say it just doesn't exist, no market for it. I don't know for sure that is true but seems realistic. I mean really? not many people would shell out $1500 to $3000 for a .22 caliber PB unless it is for some kind of competition useage. In the air gun world obviously we do. But, it is a market trait that defines the difference between air and PB.

 

[ashes5]

I bought a colt Python when I was 18 the bluing was so deep on it it looked like it went through the whole gun. Those were the last days that the bluing was a part of the heat treat process. I haven't seen bluing anywhere close to that since. 1979. Every thing about the action and trigger pull was perfect. I miss those days to. It is the same with houses you look at the wood work in a house built in the 50's and 60's you couldn't afford the wood today much less having the house built. That is why it is nice to keep your old guns and hand them down to the kids and grand kids so they can see what it used to be like.

 

[Dan25]

Heres what it boils down to. Price. The reason Colt quit making the python was that they couldn't sell it at a profit. People were just not willing to pay for the hand labor and fitting required. The reason Winchester went with the push feed post 64 bolt gun was the labor cost involved with the Mauser type action. If you are willing to shell out the money you can get mirror polish and AAA fancy walnut all day long. You will not find such things at Walmart. What you can find is a rifle that costs a fraction of the pre 64 Winchester, that I hold in great respect, that will out shoot the old guns. Those who long for the guns of the 1950s forget that sub MOA groups were things of legend. Those groups are now relatively common from affordable guns with off the shelf ammo. If you are willing to spend the money on deep bluing and walnut you can have quality equal to or better than the past and accuracy far better than before. Why does the Marauder out sell the Air Arms S510? Its not that thinly varnished beech wood stock on the Mrod. You gotta pay for that walnut and polish.