Airforce and NSA amunition

Can any one inform me about what to expect from a stock AF rifle shooting Nielson Specialty Amunition. Say a Condor shooting a 22 or 25 cal NSA hollow point. I understand that a pellet flies best at subsonic speeds but will a stock AF Condor rifle push a NSA hollow point supersonic or a modified Condor push one and at what point will a NSA or other brand cast bullet be unstable. Can you shoot these faster than pellets and are they better for hunting. May be a stupid question but I haven't seen any information on this subject.
 
I have a Condor .25, Maddog Ultima stock, carbon fiber bottle and aftermarket tophat (TalonTunes) that's wide open. I just got an order of 400 52gr boat tail hollow point slugs from NSA (you can email nick and he'll help you choose the best ammo for your set-up based on feedback he's gotten from customers with similar platforms) and they shoot very well. Mine is a night vision, pest rig that i have sighted out to 70-75 yrds that gives me 1 inch groupings easy with the aforementioned slugs.
I understand your question references a stock platform, so i can also tell you these same slugs perform great out of my .25 Condor ss out to 40-50 yrds sighted with a cheap red-dot.
Trust me, bro, you wont be disappointed. 
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I have a 25 talon with condor valve a heavier hammer and a .250 unchoked lw barrel 24 inch I opened the throat on the valve to 5/16 opened the air inlet to .325 and polished it at 2500 psi 39 gr nsa slugs I had 1070 fps and they are pretty accurate to the 59 gr was around 958 fps but I have a heavier hammer spring to . My power adjuster is turned all the way down also . I've read the new stock condor can push slugs up to a 120 fpe 
 
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Thanks for your help but my question still stands unanswered. Pellets like 850 to 950 ft per sec, what speed do cast bullets travel at ? If I went to a varmint caliber what advantage would I gain by shooting cast bullets. I have seen YouTube where a TD257 shoots squirrels at 200 plus yards but I don't remember any fps in the video. I shoot ground squirrel pests a lot closer than that with my FX Bobcat .25 cal about 48 ft lbs. I have read that smooth twist barrels don't shoot anything but pellets. I am in the market for another rifle and I am doing my home work to find that stronger but accurate rifle bullet or pellet combo. Really thinking Airforce but I need to know more. Thanks for your help !
 
1000 fps to like 950 or faster the slugs are for longer range they have better bc which means they hold there velocity and fpe out farther . You gain more power . Basically bullets are better for the longer range . Pellets shed there velocity and energy fast . Air Force is a good platform alot of different mods and stuff you can do to them to be able to shoot slugs and also to up the power of the gun 
 
Airgunman, thanks for the information I was writing when you answered so slugs are accurate and carry more energy down range. How about the NSA hollow point bullet, do they travel about the same speed and do I need slugs to shoot squirrels up to 120 to 140 yards probably longest shots needed. Also I'm the last guy you want to work on anything mechanical so probably Talon Tunes would be my builder. I've been reading all I can and all I know is I want a varmint rifle stronger than my Bobcat. AF Texan 257 or I've read getting 30 cal and put a 25 cal barrel on it or building a more powerful 25 cal all AF. Lots to ponder and hopefully more suggestions for a stronger varment rifle.
 
Yeah I'm new to the whole slug shooting thing my self I think they like 850 to a 1000 fps but I'm not totally sure and I'm still playing with it . It's probably over kill for some small game but I don't think pellets are going to get you to 140 yards . The 257 talondors or condors are able to reach out and take coyotes to 200 yards or more but they are running other than stock valves and running carbon fiber bottles for 3600 psi or more 
 
The slugs do not have the velocity restrictions like drag stabilized pellets . The velocity they shoot "best " at will be determined by the harmonics of the rifle shooting them . So tune the velocity to the slug and rifle or tune the rifle harmonics to the desired velocity . That's just my opinion anyway after playing with a friends .308 texan . I have a .257 on order and some .25 and .22 nsa slugs to play with . I'm sure I will learn a ton this summer and probably prove a few of my ideas wrong in the process .
 
"509ajl"AF Texan 257 or I've read getting 30 cal and put a 25 cal barrel on it or building a more powerful 25 cal all AF. Lots to ponder and hopefully more suggestions for a stronger varmint rifle.
The new from the Factory AF Texan .257 is built on the .30 Texan platform so it would be ideal for your needs.
 
Ok, thank you again for more information and Thurmond I have read about the 30 cal and talon tunes offers the 30 cal for around seventeen hundred on their hot guns so I need more info on it. I'll be looking while stashing more cash. Does anybody have one of these Talun tunes 30 or 257 to chime in here. I'm comfortable shooting squirrels up to 70 yards putting their lights out but beyond that I have wounded a few and don't like doing that. That is my purpose for a stronger shooting rifle and because I just want one !
 
I have tried Nielsen slugs in my stock Condor SS. I have the talon tunes top hat on it running wide open. Off the top of my head the 44gn, .250 hp slugs do about 860-870 fps. At short distance they are accurate but at 50 yd a bit disappointing. But this Condor has always been disappointing with loose groups shooting pellets. I think that a stock choked barrel might hinder performance of these slugs. 
 
I talked to someone at AOA today and my question to him was "at what speed will a cast bullet like NSA hp any caliber become unstable". His answer was it's more crucial to shoot them fast enough to fly properly and be accurate. Then I asked why cant I put a .257 or .25 caliber barrel on a big bore and get really fast bullets. He said theoreticly speaking yes I could try that but it's a matter of tunning the gun and vaguely more stuff I don't remember. Well apparently if it was easy everybody would be doing it and we wouldn't have to spend so much money on a Daystate or FX or AAA or whatever gun is at the top of the mountain for people. So I guess a cast bullet should travel at least faster than a pellet. So, are there cast bullets or slugs being shot at supersonic speeds out of any guns on the market custom or not ? There doesn't seem to be a deffinative answer like anything over x speed is stable and that's what you want. So as I'm saving money to purchase a new unchoked barrel .25 or .257 caliber cast bullet or slug shooting somekindofrifle, power will be my top concern. 

I'm learning as I go because no one I know where I live in my age bracket shoots air rifles and there are no air rifle stores anywhere near me. So my shopping and answeres to my questions are right here on AGN forum.

Thanks again for your input.
 
Basically, you cant just replace a .357 barrel for a .257 barrel on a big bore due to the air flow path and expect it to perform by shooting the .257 that much faster.

You certainly can shoot slugs at supersonic, however as with all air rifles, they are nit powerful enough to shoot high enough above the transonic point to remain supersonic to any great distance. Stability and therefore accuracy will be impacted (lost). If you read through airgun threads on slugs, you will note they are all subsonic, and even when we increase power (valves, pressures, etc) we dont strive to shoot supersonic with a certain weight, we shoot heavier longer projectiles higher SD to capture the higher BC. This is also why it may be important to consider barrel twist rate and the desired weight/length of your projectile. It is possinle to shoot slugs from choked barrels, however you will really need to pay attention diameters. 

In general, a cast bullet should travel faster than a pellet to take advantages of its ballistics, however you may still have great success in accuracy at slower speeds. Some it depends on what you want. In some calibers and platforms, that is the case. For example my first .457 was a Sam Yang and did not have near the power capbility of any of my Texans, but was quite accurate and good energy to my 75yd limit at the time. One of my .308 had a fast twist rate and did not like shorter bullets, so the heaviers went sub 900fps at the pressure I was tuning at and was quite accurate for my 100-120yd purpose. I increased pressure for longer distances. 

If shot count is a concern, most big bore slug shooters do not have high capacities (certainly some better than others, as well as potential for improvements through tuning and mods). My .308 rifles would get a handful of shots, however my Rainstorm .30 shooting NSA was more efficient and also a repeater, if that is something else you desire. Power is different (which again is why you can just change out a barrel in most air rilfes designed to shoot pellets) where my .308s could go over 200fpe my Rainstorm .30 with NSA slugs peaked around 110fpe. But with a quick tune, my Rainstorm could go back to shooting pellets at 75fpe for 14+ shots. 
 
Prouzy, thanks for your information. I am trying to take all this information in and come to some solid choices. My thinking is taking a big bore (308, 357 100 to 150 grain) and changing barrels to .257 50 to 75 grain to get the faster projectile with more shots. Tuning for the new caliber and say varmint rifle done. So that won't work, just as I thought I had the answer. I'm not looking to have the best or most rifle, i am out to get an accurate shooter more powerful than my FX Bobcat 48 ft lb and as accurate. At least double the ft lbs and maybe a little more. On another post I talked about needing a portable shooting platform so I could shoot more accurately at distance. A Caldwell Magnum Deadshot was sugested and I made the purchase. The first day I used it I took two ground squirrels out at 101 yards. The next day same thing, easy as shooting off my table at 100 yard targets but the one thing I want to do is shoot that yardage and alittle farther with more authority, thus the new unchoked bullet and or slug rifle. The information I have gathered from you and others as well as reading everything.i can find on the subject is pretty much at a point of my wallet getting full enough to make a purchase. Its going to take some time. I'll come back to this thread when that time comes, don't hold your breath we're talking months.
 
That is sort of my point, where taking a platform that shoots a .457 projectile at already 950fps does not necessarily equate to to faster and/or more efficient shooting of a .257 projectile. Correct, it would take some modification for sure, and quite possible, but why not just get a .257 that is already purpose built? If I recall, Nick says the Texan .257 looks quite promising and instead of modifying a Condor, to get the same at about the same price point, you will also have a side lever and easy (semi) conversion to other Texan calibers. At least right now, you can buy the various spin loc tanks for the Texan in all calibers $265.99 and at least a .357 barrel $299. Might need a spring change, but with this option, its just changing out OEM parts, if you dont go the custom route. But again, for around $800 you can get a RS2 .30 shooting slugs gets more than double your 48fpe Bobcat :)
 
Prouzy, thank you again for kicking this around. I am pretty much contemplating two guns. AirForce Texan 257 but after paying some one like TalonTunes to work it over then put a Mad Dog stock on it I've got about 2 grand in it. For that money I could get an AAA Evo or Slayer, and to be honest of the two I'm leaning towards the AAA for that kind of money. Now the good thing is I don't have that much money yet so I can still look and explore other possibilities. There may be a custom gun if it is in that price range. I searched for RS2.30 cal and all I came up with was a Beeman so maybe you could give me more information on that. I would love to get a quality rifle for little money but I know that isn't going to happen.

Thanks again

Al