air rifle vs. rimfire

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Apples to oranges. Why bother comparing. In a way I'm so happy the guys across the pond figured out the airgun thing because of the lack of firearms availability. 

The pcp airguns fill a nitch most don't even realize exist. The saftey factor of precision shooting at 100+ yards? ? 

I still absolutely love .22LR but it will never be able to do the same things I can do all the time with pcp's. . . And vice versa. 
 
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I don’t know about you other guys but I’ve had a bunch of rimfire rifles that typically threw the first shot out of s cold barrel way off. I saw that a lot in my years of shooting small bore silhouette. Never did much hunting with rimfire rifles but often questioned how you would manage that.
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I've had a few that were guilty of first shot flyers. Couple of them were custom 10-22 rifles that did not have pinned firing pins. With them, it is an ignition issue. My current Kidd is dead-on reliable. My two Anschutz rifles are a 1710 and 54.18 MSR, and neither of them display this issue either. I've had a couple of bolt guns that did it, never could figure it out, sold them. Sometimes it is caused by fouling in the leade area of the chamber, or a bit forward, and a good scrubbing will correct it. But, some are, to me, just a mystery. 
 
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Apples to oranges. Why bother comparing. In a way I'm so happy the guys across the pond figured out the airgun thing because of the lack of firearms availability. 

The pcp airguns fill a nitch most don't even realize exist. The saftey factor of precision shooting at 100+ yards? ? 

I still absolutely love .22LR but it will never be able to do the same things I can do all the time with pcp's. . . And vice versa.
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Yep, I think this is the right approach. Decide which does certain things better, and don't try to replace one with the other. I really enjoy shooting my air rifles in the back yard. Living in town, that's something I can't consider with a rimfire rifle, or, even a loud air rifle. I can shoot all I want with a suppressed air rifle without bothering anyone, or causing any inquiry. 
 
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Interesting thread and hats off to the mods. Many equipment specific forums I dabble in wouldn't allow discussions such as this. You either worship the forum purpose or leave. 

By the way, that rare Browning BAR .22 is a beaut. I just bought one about three months ago and love it! Had to adjust the upper feed spring to solve a jamming issue. In fact I like the rifle more than my Custom Classic Cooper 57M.
 
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I grew up spring air rifle hunting then when the first pcp came about I bought a Axsor pcp and was not impressed with its power but stuck with it , then one day in the snow and ice I waited for hours and shot a rabbit that was not killed and had to run round after it and kill it .

Then I bought a Marlin 880 SQ that I still have ,well this is super accurate and with RWS subs kills every thing out to great distances ,

So I got back into pcp 14 years ago and started to tune them up , I have had some very good hunting with the pcp and long range kills but always feel they are lacking compared to the rimfire as has been said perhaps this is not fair if you take into account that the pcp is a complete mechanism that can produce great accuracy and a rimfire is ammo dependant for its consistency which the rimfire has been . 

You perhaps have to be older to remember the confidence that the rimfire gave over a airrifle from years ago , that had to be double sprung and was .177 or .22 to get any go out of it but in saying that as a kid my airrifle was every thing to me .

Try using my first scope that the recticle moved in the tube when adjusting , and could be off centre when zeroed . I was a sharpshooter with open sights .


 
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I don’t know about you other guys but I’ve had a bunch of rimfire rifles that typically threw the first shot out of s cold barrel way off. I saw that a lot in my years of shooting small bore silhouette. Never did much hunting with rimfire rifles but often questioned how you would manage that.
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I have been shooting rimfires for over fifty years and have found this to be the case for many but not all 22 cal rimfires.. If I want a first shot accurate rifle that groups fair a European rifle will not be my rifle of choice. If I want a rifle that shoots great groups after a few warm up shots I will pick a CZ or another European rifle. This is just my experience and as in most things it doesn.t always hold true but most cases does. The reason, my theory only, is the fact that European .22 cal rifles have a bore that is about .001" smaller than US. made rimfire .22 cal. The size difference is a fact as is the fact that European rifles bring home the most trophies. I have been experimenting with resizing .22 rimfire up .001" for a Ruger single six which has an oversize bore to accommodate the mag round. The results are real. The larger bullet shoots better. But, when I move the larger bullet to a Ruger rifle the first shot or two is off poa. All of these challenges are what make this sport so addictive. No challenge and there is no attraction. I actually decided to go to air rifles for safety reasons. I feel more comfortable shooting a projectile with 23 fpe that one with 140 fpe. That is why I started but the challenge has been addictive. Oh well, there are much worse addictions.
 
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I don’t know about you other guys but I’ve had a bunch of rimfire rifles that typically threw the first shot out of s cold barrel way off. I saw that a lot in my years of shooting small bore silhouette. Never did much hunting with rimfire rifles but often questioned how you would manage that.
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I have been shooting rimfires for over fifty years and have found this to be the case for many but not all 22 cal rimfires.. If I want a first shot accurate rifle that groups fair a European rifle will not be my rifle of choice. If I want a rifle that shoots great groups after a few warm up shots I will pick a CZ or another European rifle. This is just my experience and as in most things it doesn.t always hold true but most cases does. The reason, my theory only, is the fact that European .22 cal rifles have a bore that is about .001" smaller than US. made rimfire .22 cal. The size difference is a fact as is the fact that European rifles bring home the most trophies. I have been experimenting with resizing .22 rimfire up .001" for a Ruger single six which has an oversize bore to accommodate the mag round. The results are real. The larger bullet shoots better. But, when I move the larger bullet to a Ruger rifle the first shot or two is off poa. All of these challenges are what make this sport so addictive. No challenge and there is no attraction. I actually decided to go to air rifles for safety reasons. I feel more comfortable shooting a projectile with 23 fpe that one with 140 fpe. That is why I started but the challenge has been addictive. Oh well, there are much worse addictions.



Maybe my two Anschutz rifles are exceptions, but I've never had this issue with them.
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Agreed elh, the TM is too heavy for hunting. That's why these are the airguns I shoot the most-

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Both are not only powerful and accurate enough for excellent small-game hunting, but hold a zero just fine. Also very easy to shoot well offhand.
 
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I would rather shoot rimfire any day of the week. I have a bunch. Anschutz's, Savage, CZ's , Rugers and others. And most can shoot smaller groups than my AirArms or Daystate. But the legality of shooting in my backyard and the silent shooting is the draw for me. If I lived in the bones still the compressor and PCP's would be sold. As merle haggard said. I'm tiered of this dirty ol city. 
 
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Most of my shooting is in the suburbs so I don’t get much time with my rimfires. Having worked on many air rifles, I don’t doubt them to be more sensitive to being knocked off zero with rough handling but I do very much depend on my air rifles holding POI from day to day and delivering a reliable first shot. One that doesn’t won’t get picked up. And they don’t have to be exotic or expensive to meet that criteria.

I reached for my QB78 HPA a couple of weeks ago to get a squirrel. It had been standing in the corner for weeks prior. I loaded a JSB 18.1gr and took one shot at the squirrel on top of the fence at 60 yards. Precise brain shot.

However, no doubt it took some tuning effort to get there, and plenty of trigger time to reach that degree of confidence.
 
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Interesting idea about the American vs European rimfire guns. I've got two anschutz rifles which both throw the first shot or two (especially the first shot). This is the first time anyone has offered a possible explanation. I never hunted with these rifles shot metallic silhouette with them for years. Rather maddening for a hunter I would think.

I've often wondered what the time frame might be. How long before the first one goes out. My experience has been that the guns are extremely accurate once up and running and I never missed a target that I felt I was on (missed a ton of them because I wasn't ON that's for sure) I even had my 54 MS rebarreled thinking it might help. That was a mistake. Still shot the first one out of the group and the accuracy was never as good as the original barrel. Both of those guns shot good groups and always seemed to like the most expensive amno you would feed them. I shot a ten shot group with the 54 MS under 3/4 of an inch ONCE with that gun. Absolutely dead calm day and I apparently was on with the right ammo. Only did it one. On the average the gun (and I ) can manage 1 1/2 at 100 meters. Which I can tell you is probably about the best most of the better rimfires do. Lots of guys claim better but If you watch them shoot groups it's rare to see much better then that. (always calling flyers) I see lots of great groups shot at 50 yards and to me a 50 yard group with a 22 rimfire is meaningless. Same with a PCP at 25 yards. If it isn't a one hole or close it should be.

I was never good enough to justify owning either of those guns but they seemed to be the thing to buy at the time.

You know I've found for the most part you have to check you sight settings on most guns (or you should ) before each hunt. I don't know what changes but it seems something always does. Some times it's just the lighting conditions and certainly the wind.

It's a lot easier to miss then it is to hit a target especially while hunting ( it is for me). My center fire rifles are probably more dependable to hold zero but they too need to be checked. I'm one of those guys who can make some pretty good shots if I get a chance for more then one. One shot one kill has always challenged me. A groundhog at 300 yards should be a give me but I miss pretty often. If I can spot my shot and if he gives me another his odds are pretty slim. A large part of the hunting experience is the challenge. I don't mind missing (well I do but I accept it as my reality) I don't care to just be an executioner. I do get called upon to rid some folks of groundhogs at fairly close range and I use a 17 HMR for that purpose. I do it because I enjoy the sitting and waiting and watching for them.

I like stretching the limits of all of my guns. I did a little pigeon shooting today and didn't connect with a one. Wind was blowing and the birds are smarting up as well. Worst news of all the farmer had the pigeons trapped at my best permission. I had a real hot spot there I'm bummed out on that. I can probably find another spot or two.

None of this is easy. Bob makes it look pretty easy in his video's but if you have any wind at all especially changing wind conditions you either have to really know your stuff (which Bob does) or you are going to be missing more then you hit. I believe Bob sights his rifle in before his hunts. I try to follow his directions as much as I can. Some times you pick up little tidbits of information. Just the idea that pigeons land facing the wind is one I'll try to remember. And the idea of slugs (which I am going to use if and only I get shots at or approaching 100 yards) Gotta use up the thousands of pellets I've accumulated 

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades and I guess that's relative as well. . Never tossed a grenade tried horseshoes a time or two no ability there either.

Sometimes it's just good either to be able to get out there and try. Weather will be improving here in Pa and I'll try to get some video's of my hunts. 

I have a groundhog hunt scheduled in April and I'd LOVE to get out to Wyoming in May for prairie dogs.
 
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I have a groundhog hunt scheduled in April and I'd LOVE to get out to Wyoming in May for prairie dogs.
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Prairie dogs are something else. I've done it twice, amazing. I was shooting (won't call it hunting) with a gunsmith friend who lives in Colorado. We alternated cleaning barrels and shooting. We weren't especially bloodthirsty, just enjoyed the shooting and fellowship. In two days of shooting, we shot over 400 rounds each, and I would estimate our kill rate was 90%, no end of targets. The ranchers loved to have us, one even gave us free lodging in the ranch "bunk house", which was as nice as my home, only smaller. You can shoot them with anything, because you can manage your distance, anything from just in front of the truck, to, as far as you can see. I actually got bored with it, and prefer eastern groundhog hunting. 
 
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That’s not typical or at least it hasn’t been for me. Very few shots in side 200 yards and all you care to take beyond 400 but they are really hard to hit at that distance. Apparently they do learn if they have been shot at . My hit percentage has never been better then about 30% .
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Yes, they absolutely learn. We were shooting from a truck rest, and as they got spooked, we would move another 100 yards or so into the town. Our hit rate was above average, and for a couple of reasons. We took our time with our shots and trying to read conditions. And, not to be a braggart, but we were both experienced bench rest shooters, and were shooting very good rifles with a lot of carefully handloaded ammo. Every 50 shots or so (shooting .223 and 22 PPC) one would clean a barrel while the other shot; doesn't take long to foul a barrel under those conditions. We learned not to shoot the super high velocity stuff, as the barrel just heats up too quickly. And I killed a good many inside 50 yards with a rimfire. 
 
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