Air Gun Regulations

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IMHO, part of the reason that politics are verboten on many forums, (not just airguns) is because it's members do not all share the same beliefs. Most posts in this thread are members stating their points of view without foisting them on all members. Some however have already crossed that line, stating their opinions as fact, invoking a higher power as if that has to do with lawmaking, with the assumption that all will agree. This is where political discussion stops being about discussion, or even politics, and instead become dogma and tribalism. And that decays into argument, and closed threads. This thread has been great, continues to be great,... BUT the ingredients for an MMA style crap show are all here. If we could discuss how we can help prevent legislation that is knee-jerk reaction vs. something helpful to society as a whole.... That would be amazing.



FYI, this is not my first "niche" that has been targeted by legislation as low hanging fruit. I spent the last decade building my own 1911 pistols starting from parts. In my state, this past summer a law was past that made the receiver on those pistols illegal to own, in contradiction with federal law. There was no help from any of the forces that fight to retain citizens rights to bear arms, nothing. crickets. Overnight I was turned into a criminal by a group of people that had no understanding of what it is I do. Simply for wanting to build the best, most accurate, most customized pistol I possibly can. Years of knowledge and skill in smithing criminalized. All my prized possessions destroyed with no path to make them legal.

My passion was turned into a nasty catch phrase by the media, and no one anywhere cared to do any research to see it for anything more than that nasty phrase. They just followed the headlines. And yes, the NRA was no where to be seen because the big manufacturers were NOT going to lose any $$ over this specific infringement on personal rights.



...and here I am just getting started in PCP,. and I can already see the writing on the wall.

I own an LCS. I own a Seneca big bore. I own a DonnyFL. Many retailers already won't ship to my state. The laws here are so confusing and unclear that they won't risk the grey area. But, it's so grey that many are happy to do so, as there still is no law against it. Very confusing. There is no ban on PCP, there is no ban on large calibers, it IS legal to buy these things. Some are sold in Walmart. But there IS a small statement that says air rifles will be treated like firearms in criminal cases, despite what the federal Government says. That one thing means if someone should decide to, someone with my hobby could be put away for years. There is nothing stating that one needs to do anything more criminal than owning them. Those that supply me fear they might be charged as well if I get charged.

So, it is happening. There is no "they won't do it" as they already are/have.



Thank you AGN for letting this stay open as long as you have. //Please don't ban me! :) :) :)
 
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​​​​​I've said this before on this forum. It seems to me that the guns keep getting more powerful and the ammo much closer to powder guns. I see that as an invitation to start a battle over the safety of air guns when compared to the real ones, which will lead to the kind of inclusion in regulation most would rather avoid. But, I suppose when your living is manufacturing and selling air guns, there isn't a lot of complicated technology to advance with, so power and bigger ammo is the only way to sell a lot of new stuff. I am not a hunter, so I don't understand why I would hunt with air over powder, beyond pesting and small game. Unfortunately, the people who will oppose us will mostly lack knowledge and common sense.

Maybe stay in your lane, and continue to enjoy our freedom. Good luck.
 
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the only thing i would like to add to this is most of us either at work or when we were in school can remember some thing happening because of one a hole and ruining whatever good thing we all had going because of one jerk we should all try not to be that person common sense and that feeling that if its not right dont do it i fear is becoming a thing of the past.
 
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Is it true it is illegal to shoot an air gun with in your own yard in California?
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As a comment, it is illegal to shoot an airgun in my yard in Kansas.



The unlawful operation of an air gun, air rifle, bow and arrow, slingshot, BB gun or paintball gun is the shooting, discharge or operating of any air gun, air rifle, bow and arrow, slingshot, BB gun or paint ball gun, within the city, except: (a) within the confines of a building or other structure from which the projectiles cannot escape or (b) at the legal place of business or sanctioned event of a bonafide business, under the supervision of their applicable safety rules and insurance coverage; in such an event there must be a minimum safe distance which prohibits projectiles from striking a residence."
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This is a topic that I have opined on in the past, and I cannot resist the opportunity to do so again.

Generally I agree with the sentiments outlined above by CyberDyneSystems. I have had similar issues here in CT, although when the legislature tried to “ban Ghost guns” they inadvertently opened the door to the building of CT legal “Other” firearms as long as they have a serial number. This just goes to show that usually the legislators have no idea what they are doing, and that every cloud has a silver lining.

With respect to the OPs question, first of all, there IS already regulation of airguns in the USA, not to mention the rest of the world. The really unusual thing about us, here in America, is that the Feds are pretty silent about airguns and pretty much all the regulation is left to the States. This has resulted in a patchwork quilt across the country, with widely varying regulations depending ont he state in which one lives. From New Jersey, where essentially all airguns are treated as firearms, to other places, like Connecticut (Often - incorrectly - regarded as anti-gun) where they are essentially unregulated.

However most states, including CT, treat someone brandishing Ann airgun in a threatening manner in the same way they would if the it was an actual firearm. The reason for this is pretty simple, and illustrates what I think is the biggest danger; it is impossible, under pressure of time, fear, and distance, to distinguish an airgun, or even airsoft, from the real thing (firearm). Thus, you get kids waving and pointing their airsoft or BB guns at cops and getting shot (one of the reasons my wife, many years ago in Canada, refused to allow our sons to intitially have replica pistols, and then they were never allowed out of the house). Similarly, using an airgun in the commission of a crime carries the same penalty as if one used a firearm.

The real message here is that the thing that will most likely bring down the pressure of regulations on us is the BEHAVIOR of individuals using airguns. If people are careless, or irresponsible, in the use of high power air rifles, and semi/full auto air rifles we will have trouble. If they are careless in the use of what has so far gone under the radar, single or low shot count big bore air rifles with more FPE than many firearms, we will have drastic regulation. I live on 4 acres of wooded property in a CT shoreline town. I shoot my air rifles on my own land 99% of the time. But I will not fire an airgun with more than 100 FPE on the property because the danger from an errant shot goes up exponentially. Notice I said “From and errant shot”, not “OF” and errant shot. The danger of making the shot may be low, because I am careful, use steel for my backstops, etc, and that doesn’t change because I have a more powerful rifle. However IF it does happen, the likelihood of trouble goes up dramatically with power. The same is true of slugs. I shoot pellets primarily, both because with the distances I shoot at home (15-75 yards) they are as, or more accurate, and because the danger of them traveling long distances is lower than with slugs.

So, bottom line. Don’t do stupid things, don’t play stupid games, don’t treat these things as harmless, because they are not. Treat them with respect, treat your neighbors with respect and we may be able to enjoy the pleasures of (relatively) unrestricted airguns for some time to come.

Chris
 
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I've been shooting air rifles in my back yard for over 20 years without a problem. I recently found out, it is indeed against the law to shoot an air rifle within the city limits. I don't know when this was enacted, and hopefully it will have no effect on my continued shooting. The close neighbors are aware of my hobby, as I've never made it a secret. But, had I know it was illegal, I would not have been quite as forthcoming with the admission. So, it's something regarding which I no longer volunteer information. If someone were to complain about it, I may be subject to a fine, and I would certainly have to cease the activity at that point. But for now, I'm relying on common sense to prevail. I think the bigger issue is that of restricting the transfer of air rifles as firearms, which could also place the same requirements on owning silencers, and that gets very expensive and time consuming. I wish, in my feeble little mind, that high power and big bore air rifles had never been pursued to their current state. Unintended consequences will follow. 
 
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I just don’t see how this is the issue to worry about. Looking back on what’s happened over the past few years it’s becoming more apparent we are spiraling out of control. We have no idea what our policy makers are are actually doing, and we don’t see the affects for years. There is very little societal structure left in our major cities and when that’s gone there is no telling what comes next. To see this all you have to do is be “willing” to look, or “willing” to put these issues together and look at them as a whole. We’re in a dangerous situation in our country, and the world as a whole. 


Beau
 
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Also these laws make zero sense in any society, but especially ours. They make zero sense because any claims of airguns being a danger to society is a complete and utter lie. These people making laws are not dumb people, most of them are very intelligent. They know people are not in danger of mass murder via airgun, so what’s their motive? It’s a very real question that everyone should ask on every issue, but they don’t. They take known dishonest people for their word.

Beau
 
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While we do have a right to bare arms in the context of well regulated militia we also demand the right to live without the fear of straight bullets. What makes sense in rural areas doesn’t work in higher population areas and vis versa.



I dare you to walk into some urban areas say south Chicago with your guns, cops and regulations are the last thing you will be worried about. the local inhabitants completely agree with you on the 2nd so you should get along with them just fine. 






and the mods are about done getting coffee the thread will be locked in 3, 2……..
 
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It's not enough to passively talk about your rights. You have to actually engage with your representatives about crafting reasonable legislation. A complete defensive posture "my rights" stance, that's short-term stuff. If you keep doing that, you'll get cornered and the legislation you'll have to deal with will be brutal. 

Here in Canada, one of the saving graces for firearms legislation is that our firearms users are on both ends of the political spectrum. So all the parties have to cater to them, to some extent. Our laws are a little silly, but they could easily be much worse. The downside to our politics is the left only caters to subsistence hunters and the police. So it's not a fair sample of the population. 
 
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.....I have had similar issues here in CT, although when the legislature tried to “ban Ghost guns” they inadvertently opened the door to the building of CT legal “Other” firearms as long as they have a serial number. This just goes to show that usually the legislators have no idea what they are doing, and that every cloud has a silver lining......
Chris
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I was hoping such a thing would be the same in RI, and some time before the law was passed all my receivers were professionally serial numbered. Sadly, as yet, RI has left no clear path to make them legal.
 
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Yeah but look how that’s working out for us. The mob of people are extremely easily influenced. There’s a reason our founding fathers didn’t let everyone vote, and it’s not because they were racist or sexist, it’s because the mob votes for the person who will give them the most stuff! So politicians were able to buy and keep their seats just by telling the mob they were going to fix whatever issue caused them problems. 


JFK said “It’s not what your country can do for you, it’s what you can do for your country”.

Grover Cleveland said “The people must support the government, the government can never support the people”.

And we all know what George Orwell said! “He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past”.

Theres many more of course, but these important people said these important things for a reason, most we’re combating oppression. 


 
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Several states have already included air rifles in their firearm regulations. Remember, states and local governments can define firearms as they want, they aren't limited to the Alphabet org definitions and exemptions. They can call a slingshot a firearm if they wish. Yes, the emphasis on HP air rifles will totally change the landscape.
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Which would most likely violate the supremacy clause of the constitution.

"The federal government has broad powers under the Supremacy Clause to create, regulate, and enforce the laws of the United States."

https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/legal-system/the-supremacy-clause-and-the-doctrine-of-preemption.html

The supremacy clause does not just apply to laws, it also covers federal rules and regulations. So changing the definition of what a firearm "is" would not be allowed. It will just take someone to challenge the state definition.


 
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The original constitution stated that the Federal Governments rights are “FEW AND WELL DEFINED”. So anything that gives more power to the federal government is unconstitutional. Hell anything that takes power from the people is unconstitutional. It was very black and white, and there was no room for interpretation. It was written that way so government couldn’t mess with it. After two or three generations though most of that is forgotten, we’ve been tricked people. The rights as defined in America are not granted by man or the constitution. The founders wrote the constitution to have it in writing, and there were many patriots who fought against putting it in writing because it was unnecessary and a list of other reasons. The constitution does not protect your rights, it was never meant to. We we’re supposed to protect our rights and we didn’t, so now we are where we are, and brothers it’s not sunny and 75.
 
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