AGT Uragan magazine alignment issues

[my87csx481]

Has anyone noticed any problems with magazine alignment with the pellet probe?

My probe is scraping on the inside of the magazine, and a notch is wearing away on the probe. Pretty sure this is chewing up the breech o-ring now too.

Any ideas on how to stop the scraping?

 

[Emu]

The barrel gives structure to the Uragan.

Remove the stock and check if block looks aligned with trigger and bottle.

If you notice a lack of alignement then you need to loose a little the barrel, then align the whole rifle and then tighten again the barrel.

That should correct your problem.

 

[my87csx481]

I'll have to check again when I re-assemble. (the barrel is removed, as seen in the 1st image)

I don't understand how the alignment between the front and rear block (as established by the barrel) can cause the magazine to be out of alignment with the probe. The rear block is where everything is established/located/aligned to one another, then the front block is twisted into radial alignment, and locked down on the barrel for axial positioning....but the mag is in the rear block.

I'm missing or misunderstanding something. I'll put it back together and pay closer attention. I'm not sure right now, because it's apart. But I think the top of the mag is located by the cheek piece, or maybe it's free, and the slot rubs on the end of the barrel.

One thing I know for sure, the ball detent is pushing the right side of the mag up, causing it to rotate counterclockwise (looking from the rear), and making it interfere with the pellet probe.

 

[Geezerhood]

My first thought was that the probe might be bent. I am assuming that the pellet probe is perfectly centered in the breech?

 

[my87csx481]

Thanks all for the help so far.

Yes. I believe the probe and barrel are aligned/centered. I'll pay very close attention to that on re-assembly.

The probe is scraping the magazine, not the barrel's chamber....as far as I could tell previously.

 

[Geezerhood]

Thanks all for the help so far.

Yes. I believe the probe and barrel are aligned/centered. I'll pay very close attention to that on re-assembly.

The probe is scraping the magazine, not the barrel's chamber....as far as I could tell previously.

I checked my Uragan 2 and there are no rub marks from the probe anywhere on the magazine or the probe from the magazine. Sounds like your assessment of the mag being pushed off center might be the problem.

 

[FLbushman]

I have a Uragan2 in 30 cal., of the 3 mags I have, no problems.

 

[Emu]

Take a picture and send it to AGT factory.

They will advice you.

 

[my87csx481]

Thanks. I'll try that.

I finally got around to putting the barrel back in today, with no breech o-ring. The probe is centered, and not rubbing on the barrel. But it is interfering with the area of the magazine shown in previous images.

The magazine is "captured" by 3 points:

1. the ball detent
2. where the magazine slot hits the bottom of the barrel (because the detent pushes the mag up)
3. where the bottom of magazine hits the bottom of the left side of the block (because the detent pushes the mag up against the bottom of the barrel, it rotates the mag a bit until the bottom of the mag hits the bottom of the left side of the block)

There does not appear to be a way to adjust any of the 3 points.

I should start a new thread but, anyone use the CARM magazines and single shot loader for the Uragan? Any good? I'm thinking the plastic will not wear out my probe anymore than it already is.

 

[Macros]

First I've ever hear of someone with magazine issues on an AGT tbh.

Sounds to me like the two potential issues are either the mag retaining ball detent stands slightly too proud, or the groove in the bottom of the mag that mates up with it is somehow machined a little too shallow. If it's an issue with both your mags I guess the former is more likely.
If this matches what you are seeing and you're feeling brave you could try removing a little bit of material in that groove at the bottom of the mag to prevent that excess rotation

 

[my87csx481]

Thanks for that.

When I purchased the rifle, I ordered 2 extra mags. All 4 mags have the issue.

 

[zx10wall]

It appears that your barrel's breech is secured a bit too far into the action.

 

[my87csx481]

I put the barrel back exactly where it was before I took it apart. But maybe that position is not correct.

The breech measured .540" from the back of the block's mag slot to the face of the breech/barrel.

Measuring the mag thickness over the barrel clearance slot at the back of the mag, I get .531".

Do you think .009" clearance is too much? Should I slide the barrel back and make it .003-.005" clearance?

 

[my87csx481]

AGT has also suggested that the probe is bent.

How do I remove the probe? (I know how to inspect it). Is removal simply removing bolt #107 (shown in the exploded parts diagram)? Then slide the probe out through the hole in the block (where the barrel would be, if the barrel was installed)?

 

[my87csx481]

I set the gap to .535". Probe still scrubs inside the magazine.

 

[zx10wall]

This shoulder of the breech end of the barrel should be slightly recessed and not at all more proud than flush.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

One way to find out if the probe is bent is by cocking it and watching the probe enter to the barrel. Does it go evenly all the way into there or does it ride up there into it as it comes into the end? If for some reason it's bent down lower than it's supposed to be it will ride on the magazine untill it starts into the barrel, then align itself.

 

[my87csx481]

This shoulder of the breech end of the barrel should be slightly recessed and not at all more proud than flush.

View attachment 357516

I see what you're saying now. I think it's just the angle of my crappy image. The shoulder you're arrow is pointing to is recessed into the block, ever so slightly, even with the .535" gap I set (from the breech face to the back side of the magazine slot in the rear block). I'll try setting the gap larger. Thanks for trying to help.

One way to find out if the probe is bent is by cocking it and watching the probe enter to the barrel. Does it go evenly all the way into there or does it ride up there into it as it comes into the end? If for some reason it's bent down lower than it's supposed to be it will ride on the magazine untill it starts into the barrel, then align itself.

Yes. I watched both sides, and top and bottom....as I cycled the probe in and out to see if I could see it rise/fall/bend. I was going to put a dial indicator on it but, there is some slop too (where it rides in the rear of the rear block). I think it will be best to remove the probe to check it for straightness (in a v-block with an indicator, or just roll it on a surface plate, if possible....and see if it wobbles). I have the measuring tools and plate, I just need to know how to remove the probe. I wrenched on #107 a little bit but, I think there's loctite on there or something. Might need heat. I'm a pu55y and will wait for someone more knowledgeable than myself to tell me to just crank on it more, or heat it up first, then crank on it.

 

[my87csx481]

In my opinion, the probe is not bent.

Snips and paraphrases from an email I sent to AGT (pleading for help in finding the root cause of the scraping issue):

In the image, the green arrow is pointing at the OD that I placed in the V of a v-block to establish the probe's axis (the image shows the blue arrow in the V, because that's where the probe balances). I rotated the probe in the v-block and swept under the indicator at 10 radial positions about the probe's axis. The OD with the blue arrow shows less than .0005" (.0127mm) total indicator movement (so .00025" (.00635mm) eccentric to the green arrow diameter). The OD with the yellow arrow (pellet pin) shows .0035" (.0889mm) total indicator movement (so .00175" (.04445mm eccentric). I did check in multiple positions axially, at every rotated position....to make sure it is not a banana.

I also used the blue arrow OD to establish the probe's axis in the v-block, and measured the other two diameters. I achieved slightly worse results, compared to above (there are some burs on the blue diameter that were causing readings to be inaccurate in a few positions).

None of these conditions explain why the brass portion of the probe is making excessive contact with the magazine....in my opinion.

 

[my87csx481]

AGT agreed that the probe is not bent (based on my supplied dimensions). I finally received a new probe from them today, that I paid for in full.

A .009" thick aluminum shim under the magazine (just under the left hand side/opposite side from the ball detent) has solved my alignment issue.