Advice needed

Hello everyone. I am relatively new to air guns but have shot rifles and pistols all my life. I live in the city and need something silent and lethal to kill mostly starlings. I've got an old Diana 34 springer and it's a great gun - but it's just a bit too noisy. I've got a budget of about $5,000 to spend. I would appreciate more experienced opinions on a rifle, scope, and accessories. Thanks in advance. This is an awesome forum. -Robert
 
Be careful of your backdrop! I used to live in SF - gnarly place to shoot.



As for guns with that budget, my next buy is one of these: https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/airgun-technology-uragan-synthetic/



That being said, you might want to ease into the sport with something less expensive. If you are not worried about the price then the above, Weihrauch, Daystate are the best of the best, oh and Air Arms.





Keep safe in the city.

-Lt
 
I have a FX .22 wildcat with a DonnyFL Tanto shoots excellent and fairly quiet but then again I had a Diana 34 I didnt think was all that loud. Lots of good PCPs out there to choose from your biggest decision will be a good compressor/air supply. BTW be wear of people approaching you with deals as lots of scammers around. Lots of great dealers sponsored here.


 
I have a FX .22 wildcat with a DonnyFL Tanto shoots excellent and fairly quiet but then again I had a Diana 34 I didnt think was all that loud. Lots of good PCPs out there to choose from your biggest decision will be a good compressor/air supply. BTW be wear of people approaching you with deals as lots of scammers around. Lots of great dealers sponsored here.


I'm leaning toward a PCP. What do you suggest for a compressor? Thanks, Robert
 
Be careful of your backdrop! I used to live in SF - gnarly place to shoot.



As for guns with that budget, my next buy is one of these: https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/airgun-technology-uragan-synthetic/



That being said, you might want to ease into the sport with something less expensive. If you are not worried about the price then the above, Weihrauch, Daystate are the best of the best, oh and Air Arms.





Keep safe in the city.

-Lt

Thank you 


Call Allen Zasadny if you want a gun that is quiet as a mousefart and accurate like a. Laser with that kind of budget. He is the BEST.

Thank you.
 
I have a FX .22 wildcat with a DonnyFL Tanto shoots excellent and fairly quiet but then again I had a Diana 34 I didnt think was all that loud. Lots of good PCPs out there to choose from your biggest decision will be a good compressor/air supply. BTW be wear of people approaching you with deals as lots of scammers around. Lots of great dealers sponsored here.


I'm leaning toward a PCP. What do you suggest for a compressor? Thanks, Robert

Omega turbo charger
 
I had to go back to the top and verify target. Yeah what @mercado above says - Taipan .177 or .22 with a Donny on it - a mouse fart is louder than this combo. ;-) I've a .22 long that is unbelievably quiet. If just birds - then .177 probably good enough, and probably quietest - use minimally AA or JSB 10.3's and smack 'em @880-900pfs.
 
If you live in an urban environment may I strongly suggest not to use airguns.

Maybe the tried and true office desk slingshot will do. Take a paper clip and bend it in half. Bending it one way will give a rounded nose (wadcutter). Bending it the other way will give you two points (hunter). Now,get yourself a decent rubber band (not a wide one) and put it around your thumb and index finger. Place the bent paper clip around the rubber band and pull back/release. 

Believe it or not, but I have taken out a few birds this way as a kid. It’s a much safer method when in an urban environment. Keep in mind that this can still cause bodily harm! Lastly, mind the local ordinances.

top



 
I'd suggest looking up Joe Rhea aka Cyclops on youtube. As far as I can tell he is very widely respected both for his knowledge and his willingness to take the mighty down a few notches as well as admit some of the less expensive scopes are good -- and tell you why. I'm getting steadily more convinced that a scope is as important as the gun.

Also, figure a tank and a compressor into your budget, which could lower your spending budget on rifle and other accessories by $700 or more very easily. You can get hand pumps for $40 to $70 that will do the job all by themselves. But you will spend not just effort but time, and that can feel like a drag after a while. You can't just pump as fast as you like to get it over with, as you don't want the pump to get too hot, which could degrade the seals. So your time to fill or partial-fill your gun's air cylinder can start to cut into your fun. And then how much fun are you really having? Unless you go for a springer or CO2, I think most PCP people would LOVE a tank at least, maybe a compressor too.

Luckily, they could be used for multiple guns, so that tank/compressor business is not just all about one gun, but for the whole hobby.
 
If you live in an urban environment may I strongly suggest not to use airguns.

Maybe the tried and true office desk slingshot will do. Take a paper clip and bend it in half. Bending it one way will give a rounded nose (wadcutter). Bending it the other way will give you two points (hunter). Now,get yourself a decent rubber band (not a wide one) and put it around your thumb and index finger. Place the bent paper clip around the rubber band and pull back/release. 

Believe it or not, but I have taken out a few birds this way as a kid. It’s a much safer method when in an urban environment. Keep in mind that this can still cause bodily harm! Lastly, mind the local ordinances.

top



yup...agree...all depends on the context and the property you are shooting at, but these days in CA shooting an airgun in a backyard can risk the law and more. Plus, come on, slingshots are where it is at.
 
Robert,

I had to check your OP (original post) again to make sure I didn't get the zeros wrong — a five and then 3 zeros — not 2 zeros....

Excellent! With your budget the sky seems to be the limit! 😊 That's great! 👍🏼



🔴 THE GUN 🔴



🔶 GUN POWER PLANT

If you want QUIET — PCP is the only way to go. Especially if adding a silencer. Springers like your D34 don't benefit very much from a silencer as the main noise comes from the action.





🔶 GUN BRAND

You probably want a high quality brand. Some were already mentioned above.





🔶 GUN STYLE

▪Do you like a traditional stock — walnut wood — stipling and similar features?

▪Or do you like functional and tough — synthetic stock?

And would you like a bullpup? For most that's an either hate-or-love choice.... 😄





🔶 GUN CALIBER

▪A .177 is quite sufficient to kill starlings.

▪If you happen to have significant wind you might benefit from going with .22cal, as the .22 pellets generally have a higher BC and are thus not as sensitive to wind drift. (Wind drift for airgun pellets is much, much more than for a powder burner, especially if you shoot beyond 30y.).









——————————————————————————————



🔴 THE SCOPE 🔴



🔶 SPRINGER-APPROVED SCOPE: NOT NECESSARY

If you have a PCP it won't be necessary to buy a spring-airgun-approved scope, so you got all your choices open (the D34 is known to be a scope eater...). 



🔶 FIXED OR VARIABLE MAGNIFICATION

You know the benefits of either, I suppose.

Since airgun targets can pop up really close, and then again you might want to get that starling far up in the tree at 50y, it is a huge advantage to have a variable magnification.

If I understand correctly, scope quality has improved in general over the last decade or so — that even $200 and $300 made-in-China scopes can deliver pretty good quality — even if they have variable magnification!





🔶 MAGNIFICATION RANGE

▪TOP END: If you choose a variable magnification, the top end of your magnification range depends on your maximum shooting range, and on the quality of your eyes.

In my case, the first seems to be ever increasing, and the latter decreasing — somehow these two things don't line up for me.... 😟 

Airgun quarry are tiny and so in general a larger magnification than for powder burners is desirable.



▪BOTTOM END: The bottom end of your magnification range depends on how close you want to take quick rushed shots — and thus need a large field of view (FoV) — in order to acquire your target rapidly. 

Airgun quarry can frequently pop up as close a 10 yards, much closer than the typical powder burner shot. So, a wide FoV is desirable.





🔶 FFP or SFP — and

RETICLE AND TURRETS

First focal plane (FFP) or second focal plane (SFP)? You probably know the difference, however, airgun pellets drop a lot more than powder burner bullets — which means you'll have to adjust your point of aim (POA) much more often with airguns for a range different than the one you zeroed your gun for.

▪If you chose to use your reticle to make POA adjustments — then you'll need a reticle with evenly spaced hash lines (not a BDC or a plain reticle) = I call it a holdoff reticle.

In an FFP scope the distances between the reticle hash lines do not change in relation to your target — so no matter what magnification you choose the holdoff/ holdover that you have on your dope card or memorized is always the same. In an SFP scope these change for every magnification.

▪If you chose to use your turrets, get a higher priced scope where the turrets track true (many seem to have pretty good experiences with scopes starting around $3/400).

▪If you like to use both for different shooting scenarios, get both features.... 😊





➔➔ 🔶 I'll attach three Scope Specs Tables for three different magnification ranges below, comparing the specs of around 200 scopes that are suitable for airgunning:

▪10 yard minimum parallax — for those close shots (the list only lists side parallax scopes, not OA at they are less convenient to adjust)

▪Holdoff reticle — for POA adjustments

▪Exposed turrets — for quick adjustments of POA

▪The list focuses on $500 and under





——————————————————————————————



🔴 THE SILENCER 🔴



There are plenty of airgun silencers out there.

Some a plain pipes.

Some have indentations, nooks, and moldings — looks nice.



➔➔🔶 I'll attach a Silencer Specs Table below comparing 50 silencers.





Robert, I wish you HAPPY SHOPPING!! 😄😄

Matthias







——————————————————————————————



🔴 ATTACHMENTS BELOW 🔴



download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 4-14x 3-18x, 4-16x Magnification. 074. 2020-09. TABLE.1602379028.pdf





download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For Short Scopes -and- 3-12x. 045. 2020-08. TABLE.1602379061.pdf





download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 6-20x 6-24x, 5-20x, 5-30x Magnification. 116. 2020-09. TABLE.1602379082.pdf





download.png
View attachment SILENCER SPECS TABLE. 17. 2020-10. TABLE.1602379104.pdf





download.png
View attachment SILENCER SPECS TABLE. 17. 2020-10. PHOTOS.1602379125.pdf






 
Hello everyone. I am relatively new to air guns but have shot rifles and pistols all my life. I live in the city and need something silent and lethal to kill mostly starlings. I've got an old Diana 34 springer and it's a great gun - but it's just a bit too noisy. I've got a budget of about $5,000 to spend. I would appreciate more experienced opinions on a rifle, scope, and accessories. Thanks in advance. This is an awesome forum. -Robert



With measly budget of 5,000 dollars your selection will be limited....😂



For being in the city I would first suggest .177 caliber for minimizing damage when accidents happen, you don't need anything more than .177 for starlings and house sparrows. As far as PCP goes my personal favorite for such task is my very own Crosman 1720T with folding AR stock, laser accurate and mouse fart quiet with even a small moderator like Tanto or Belita. My second recommendation would be the PP700 in .177. Both are great for what you want to do and very inexpensive AND VERY hand pump friendly. Anything bigger and more power you are just asking for trouble. I'm shock on how hard a .177 pellet hits a sparrow at 620 FPS which is only 6FPE, the pop is so loud I'm afraid my neighbor would notice so I try to take head shots because it's a lot quieter. The 1720T with an AR stock is more consistently more accurate than the PP700 mostly because of the better ergonomics thanks to the AR stock. If you want multi shot try PP750 in .177.



As far as scope goes I would keep on the same compact theme and suggest Vector Vyron 3-12 compact scope, I assume being in the city space normally is a concern.


 
Hello everyone. I am relatively new to air guns but have shot rifles and pistols all my life. I live in the city and need something silent and lethal to kill mostly starlings. I've got an old Diana 34 springer and it's a great gun - but it's just a bit too noisy. I've got a budget of about $5,000 to spend. I would appreciate more experienced opinions on a rifle, scope, and accessories. Thanks in advance. This is an awesome forum. -Robert



With measly budget of 5,000 dollars your selection will be limited....
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For being in the city I would first suggest .177 caliber for minimizing damage when accidents happen, you don't need anything more than .177 for starlings and house sparrows. As far as PCP goes my personal favorite for such task is my very own Crosman 1720T with folding AR stock, laser accurate and mouse fart quiet with even a small moderator like Tanto or Belita. My second recommendation would be the PP700 in .177. Both are great for what you want to do and very inexpensive AND VERY hand pump friendly. Anything bigger and more power you are just asking for trouble. I'm shock on how hard a .177 pellet hits a sparrow at 620 FPS which is only 6FPE, the pop is so loud I'm afraid my neighbor would notice so I try to take head shots because it's a lot quieter. The 1720T with an AR stock is more consistently more accurate than the PP700 mostly because of the better ergonomics thanks to the AR stock. If you want multi shot try PP750 in .177.



As far as scope goes I would keep on the same compact theme and suggest Vector Vyron 3-12 compact scope, I assume being in the city space normally is a concern.


This combo is good and so is the Crosman 1701P (use AGNATION 25% discount code at Crosman ordered on FRIDAY morning for free shipping) with large P-Rod (and 1720T for close to mid range shooting) transfer ports (cheap direct from Crosman) and RAI AR stock adapter with stock (kinda expensive) and TKO silencer (pretty cheap). Nothing with wings is safe out to 55 yards and is super quiet too.

Use the rest of the $$$ on a good Coltri MCH6 or Alkin Compressor and 4500psi CF tank and pellets.
 
Robert,

I had to check your OP (original post) again to make sure I didn't get the zeros wrong — a five and then 3 zeros — not 2 zeros....

Excellent! With your budget the sky seems to be the limit! 😊 That's great! 👍🏼



🔴 THE GUN 🔴



🔶 GUN POWER PLANT

If you want QUIET — PCP is the only way to go. Especially if adding a silencer. Springers like your D34 don't benefit very much from a silencer as the main noise comes from the action.





🔶 GUN BRAND

You probably want a high quality brand. Some were already mentioned above.





🔶 GUN STYLE

▪Do you like a traditional stock — walnut wood — stipling and similar features?

▪Or do you like functional and tough — synthetic stock?

And would you like a bullpup? For most that's an either hate-or-love choice.... 😄





🔶 GUN CALIBER

▪A .177 is quite sufficient to kill starlings.

▪If you happen to have significant wind you might benefit from going with .22cal, as the .22 pellets generally have a higher BC and are thus not as sensitive to wind drift. (Wind drift for airgun pellets is much, much more than for a powder burner, especially if you shoot beyond 30y.).









——————————————————————————————



🔴 THE SCOPE 🔴



🔶 SPRINGER-APPROVED SCOPE: NOT NECESSARY

If you have a PCP it won't be necessary to buy a spring-airgun-approved scope, so you got all your choices open (the D34 is known to be a scope eater...). 



🔶 FIXED OR VARIABLE MAGNIFICATION

You know the benefits of either, I suppose.

Since airgun targets can pop up really close, and then again you might want to get that starling far up in the tree at 50y, it is a huge advantage to have a variable magnification.

If I understand correctly, scope quality has improved in general over the last decade or so — that even $200 and $300 made-in-China scopes can deliver pretty good quality — even if they have variable magnification!





🔶 MAGNIFICATION RANGE

▪TOP END: If you choose a variable magnification, the top end of your magnification range depends on your maximum shooting range, and on the quality of your eyes.

In my case, the first seems to be ever increasing, and the latter decreasing — somehow these two things don't line up for me.... 😟 

Airgun quarry are tiny and so in general a larger magnification than for powder burners is desirable.



▪BOTTOM END: The bottom end of your magnification range depends on how close you want to take quick rushed shots — and thus need a large field of view (FoV) — in order to acquire your target rapidly. 

Airgun quarry can frequently pop up as close a 10 yards, much closer than the typical powder burner shot. So, a wide FoV is desirable.





🔶 FFP or SFP — and

RETICLE AND TURRETS

First focal plane (FFP) or second focal plane (SFP)? You probably know the difference, however, airgun pellets drop a lot more than powder burner bullets — which means you'll have to adjust your point of aim (POA) much more often with airguns for a range different than the one you zeroed your gun for.

▪If you chose to use your reticle to make POA adjustments — then you'll need a reticle with evenly spaced hash lines (not a BDC or a plain reticle) = I call it a holdoff reticle.

In an FFP scope the distances between the reticle hash lines do not change in relation to your target — so no matter what magnification you choose the holdoff/ holdover that you have on your dope card or memorized is always the same. In an SFP scope these change for every magnification.

▪If you chose to use your turrets, get a higher priced scope where the turrets track true (many seem to have pretty good experiences with scopes starting around $3/400).

▪If you like to use both for different shooting scenarios, get both features.... 😊





➔➔ 🔶 I'll attach three Scope Specs Tables for three different magnification ranges below, comparing the specs of around 200 scopes that are suitable for airgunning:

▪10 yard minimum parallax — for those close shots (the list only lists side parallax scopes, not OA at they are less convenient to adjust)

▪Holdoff reticle — for POA adjustments

▪Exposed turrets — for quick adjustments of POA

▪The list focuses on $500 and under





——————————————————————————————



🔴 THE SILENCER 🔴



There are plenty of airgun silencers out there.

Some a plain pipes.

Some have indentations, nooks, and moldings — looks nice.



➔➔🔶 I'll attach a Silencer Specs Table below comparing 50 silencers.





Robert, I wish you HAPPY SHOPPING!! 😄😄

Matthias







——————————————————————————————



🔴 ATTACHMENTS BELOW 🔴



download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 4-14x 3-18x, 4-16x Magnification. 074. 2020-09. TABLE.1602379028.pdf





download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For Short Scopes -and- 3-12x. 045. 2020-08. TABLE.1602379061.pdf





download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 6-20x 6-24x, 5-20x, 5-30x Magnification. 116. 2020-09. TABLE.1602379082.pdf





download.png
View attachment SILENCER SPECS TABLE. 17. 2020-10. TABLE.1602379104.pdf





download.png
View attachment SILENCER SPECS TABLE. 17. 2020-10. PHOTOS.1602379125.pdf






Thanks for all the helpful info!