Accuracy of regular size rifle vs. bullpup

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Emu

Emu

Member
Jan 15, 2020
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Queretaro, Mexico
Hi,

I know that accuracy of an air rifle depends of barrel, regulator, valve, trigger, etc., But have you notice if the form of a regular rifle (eye before starting of the barrel) helps you to shot more accurately at longer distances?

I think it should had an important component because I do not have yet a notice of a professional sniper using a bullpup configuration rifle.

Regards.


 
Here is my experience. First off, I am not much of a shooter compared to many of the members one here. But I do like an accurate rifle/bullpup. I have been into this PCP stuff for about ten years. I have owned or own, seven rifles, & four bullpups. I have consistently shoot better groups with my bullpups. Especially the Colibri & the Vulcan. Even my .22 FX Wildcat groups a tad better than my Royale 400, & both my Streamlines & the Dreamline compact. So for me hands down the bull pups rules in accuracy department. 
 
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I have exactly the oposite experience that Nutcracker has had. I suspect it's because I had decades of shooting experience with conventional firearms, and no experience with bullpups.

My ability with bullpups has improved since I bought my first Impact last winter, but I'm still a significantly better shot with my Crown. 

The issue I have is consistancy I think.
 
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I have both in Airguns and real guns. I won’t be shooting groundhogs at 700yrds with my bullpup no matter how much money I dump into it. Bullpups were designed for close quarter combat. Yes, at airgun distances you can develop the skills to be very accurate with a pup, but it’s way easier with a traditional rifle. Nothing good comes from having a scope that far above the bores axis. But that’s what it takes to have a comfortable repeatable cheek weld for accuracy. Guys who love bullpup airguns convince themselves to be accurate with them and do what it takes. I know, I am one of them. But when I pull out one of my traditional air rifles and shoot 100yrds, it’s so easy. They just lay in the bags or handle on a bipod so much better.
 
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I have exactly the oposite experience that Nutcracker has had. I suspect it's because I had decades of shooting experience with conventional firearms, and no experience with bullpups.

My ability with bullpups has improved since I bought my first Impact last winter, but I'm still a significantly better shot with my Crown. 

The issue I have is consistancy I think.
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Bullpup's not benched or rested are easier for me to shoot accurately than full length rifles, I have four Bullpups and two full length air rifles, I discovered this two years ago when I bought a Wildcat. Group is 25y sitting I forgot if it is 5 or 8 shots with Mk1 Wildcat .22.
1579528108_6607578945e25afac91e1b6.01501735_1208191123.jpg

 
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Ahhhh?

As much as it pains me to admit it (I do love my bullpups): (Impact, Taipan Vet(s), Vulcan2, Vulcan Tactic, EDgun Matador, Wildcat.)

My Daystate Wolverine Hi Lite (43 +/- inches), Daystate Regal XL and my FX Royale 500 (45 inches) easily perform at accuracy levels that 'Pups struggle to achieve at distance (75-100 yards).

Make no mistake however, I will never get rid of my Wildcat(2), my Taipan 💕Veterans(3)💓 and my Impact with the 600 ml barrel. These are my go-to guns. They are compact, ergonomic and can be tuned to match the full length rifles. For me, that requires work.


 
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I think it would be important for each accuracy comment to specify if this is offhanded, benchrested, or fieldrested.

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For me, accuracy refers to a gun's a ability to place a projectile on or near a bullseye/target. I've shot rifles -- firearms and airguns -- for decades now and for me, it goes without saying that bench-rest is the standard for testing a gun's inherent accuracy.
 
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I find no difference in shooting a good bullpup or good rifle. However bullpups I prefer are longer. The compact bullpups in the 24" range aren't easy to shoot off a bench. My best shooting bullpups have all been "long". My R5M Long .22, my Taipan Veteran Long .22 and the AGT Uragan .22 were among the most accurate guns I've ever owned. They were all in the 32" range and found them very easy to shoot off a bench. But I'm just as good with a rifle also. But I like compact rifles and long bullpups.
 
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The point is exactly what should we expect in accuracy from a bullpup and what for a regular lenght rifle.

80 mts dime size Is a must shooting rested with a Vulcan/Uragan bullpup, but 120 mts seem to be more achievable with full lenght air rifles. 

Notwithstanding I deeply love my Vulcan's and Uragan, for me is much easier to hit exactly where I aim with my Rainstorm 30 Cal above 100 yards. I am positive is not a matter of accuracy of the machine, but the way you shoulder it.

We should request Airgun Technology to produce a full lenght Air rifle with a beautiful walnut stock in a total lenght of no more than 41 inches and no more than 7.5 pounds to be able to carry it on the back with a sling, but with all the benefits of the Uragan.

Apparently the carbine (normal lenght rifle) that kalibrgung sells is not updated in regard of what the market now offes.

For hunting purposes a rifle above 41 inches and 7.5 pounds is not a perfect choice if you have to carry it for 3 hours, it becomes a nightmare and an arm pain.

We should be able to encourage producers to develop what we as consumers and entusiast want.

Regards.




 
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I'm not familiar with many professional snipers, but, I'm not sure that their choice of equipment has a lot of relevance. I believe we are mixing two different things, the accuracy potential of the platform, and the relative difficulty each presents for most folks to shoot. I am convinced there is no reason a bullpup cannot be as accurate as any full length rifle, assuming the same degree of precision build. The only bullpup I own is a Taipan Veteran, and it is as accurate as my Red Wolf or RAW. With that said, in real world shooting conditions; i.e., position target shooting or hunting, I find the bullpup much more challenging to shoot well, in spite of the Veteran's excellent trigger. It's so short, that holding steady, even with available support (as leaning against a tree), is a lot more difficult for me. Benchrest competition is largely a test of equipment, not marksmanship, and with a good front benchrest or bipod, I have found the Veteran as accurate as anything I own. But, if I go walking in the woods, I'll probably take my Royale 400. It might not keep up with the Veteran from the bench, but for me, it's a heck of lot easier to shoot well in any non-benchrest scenario. 

I have a different opinion of the rifle's weight. You express 7.5 pounds as a maximum for field conditions. For me, that as a bare minimum. You might walk more than I do when hunting, but a light rifle is a lot harder for me to hold well. My lightest rifle is a Royale 400. With scope, it weighs about 8.5 pounds, and I don't want it any lighter. Years ago I did a lot of quail hunting, which involves walking all day. I was talked into trying a very light shotgun. It was a dream to carry, but a nightmare to shoot. I decided I would carry what I could shoot. 
 
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Other aspect really relevant to take into consideration is the caliber.

I have noticed that for me is much easier to hit precisely above 110 yards with a .30 Cal than with any other caliber. Maybe a wind/weight factor.

I would like to clarify that I DO NOT have any experience in shooting slugs. So my experience is in comparing JSB's of diverse calibers with diverse rifles.

In 22 the JSB redesigned are the most accurate in my Uragan at longer distances than anybody my 25 Cal's... There's no JSB 25 Cal with the equivalent shape/design of the redesigned in 22 Cal. I think that could be a disavantage for 25 Cal accuracy, at longer distances.
 
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A tool for the job 

In firearms the bullpup main benefit is close in combat 

In air rifles the added fact that the weight of the PCP tank ECT is shifted back making it easier to shoot off hand 

Once you move to bench this benefit is no longer relevant, many (though not all) air rifle bullpups have the same size barrel as a Carbine (this is not feasible in firearms because of the breach)

As mentioned the ease of a good cheek weld and lower line of sight off a good stock makes a difference in long distance precision shots 
 
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I'm not familiar with many professional snipers, but, I'm not sure that their choice of equipment has a lot of relevance. I believe we are mixing two different things, the accuracy potential of the platform, and the relative difficulty each presents for most folks to shoot. I am convinced there is no reason a bullpup cannot be as accurate as any full length rifle, assuming the same degree of precision build. The only bullpup I own is a Taipan Veteran, and it is as accurate as my Red Wolf or RAW. With that said, in real world shooting conditions; i.e., position target shooting or hunting, I find the bullpup much more challenging to shoot well, in spite of the Veteran's excellent trigger. It's so short, that holding steady, even with available support (as leaning against a tree), is a lot more difficult for me. Benchrest competition is largely a test of equipment, not marksmanship, and with a good front benchrest or bipod, I have found the Veteran as accurate as anything I own. But, if I go walking in the woods, I'll probably take my Royale 400. It might not keep up with the Veteran from the bench, but for me, it's a heck of lot easier to shoot well in any non-benchrest scenario. 

I have a different opinion of the rifle's weight. You express 7.5 pounds as a maximum for field conditions. For me, that as a bare minimum. You might walk more than I do when hunting, but a light rifle is a lot harder for me to hold well. My lightest rifle is a Royale 400. With scope, it weighs about 8.5 pounds, and I don't want it any lighter. Years ago I did a lot of quail hunting, which involves walking all day. I was talked into trying a very light shotgun. It was a dream to carry, but a nightmare to shoot. I decided I would carry what I could shoot.
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Seems spot on. People have much more experience with "standard" rifles and that leads to comfort/confidence. The trigger linkage seems to be a major drawback for the bullpup design in general. I've changed the trigger/linkage on my Hatsan Gladius quite a lot to make it better but in the end there is still a linkage there. Otherwise I have no issues with the bullpup design and really like the way they carry and shoulder.
 
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As other people have touched on, I think "accuracy" is often based on the shooters situation. The bullpups/carbines can make for more comfortable and "accurate" shots when moving around and shouldering or field resting in hunting or tactical situations (really what they were designed for), as compared to longer/heavier/bulkier rifles. But if you were to put all the leading rifles up against all the leading bullpups in benchrest shooting, then I imagine that the rifles would not surprisingly have an edge over the bullpups.

Think of it this way: If all a person plans to do is shoot benchrest, would they choose a bullpup as their primary gun? I wouldn't.

So I think accuracy is a very relative term here. Bullpups can give a higher degree of "accuracy" in some situations, while rifles will be more accurate in others. Just need to tailor it to your shooting situation.
 
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