The only problem with that theory is that Air arms has no hammer spring adjustment which I think is going to be a problem with there new regulated gun....
James from Michigan,
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AA S510 XS - Chrono tests
- Thread starter Bob_O
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The only problem with that theory is that Air arms has no hammer spring adjustment which I think is going to be a problem with there new regulated gun....
James from Michigan,
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This isn't all that promising. I would agree with dairyboy that your hammer/valve is out of balance. Probably too much spring on the hammer. But hey, if the gun is shooting well for you and you're not missing too much don't worry about it.
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Well, I'll do some more chronograph after work today on power level 4, one step lower than Max, and see what those numbers look like. You wouldn't think it would take a tin of 500 pellets in order to get good performance. Yes, spending more for the regulated model was the whole point of buying the XS. The gauge on my tank goes in 20bar increments. I could see the needle move slightly after each shot but not well enough to accurately measure it.
There are about 25 shots about 925fps or higher, so I think it's shooting fast enough for those shots, being AA spec'd the gun to shoot 950fps (with light pellets) but it SHOULD shoot more consistently being regulated. I could try some lighter pellets I have to see if it achieves the 950fps they spec'd.
I have no idea of the internals of the gun so I can't say how easy/difficult it would be to adjust things. I just wanted a gun that would shoot well right out of the box. I did all my testing with a DonnyFL Tanto fitted, as that is how I will shoot. I don't think it makes a difference over the chrono, it shouldn't affect consistency anyway. I shot my Wildcat over the chrono with DonnyFL KOI attached after the Huma install, and got ES of 6 and SD of 2......that's how I say it shouldn't matter. But I tuned the hammer spring on that one.
Oh well, we'll see what happens after some more testing this evening. Maybe it will magically tighten up on power level 4......we'll see. I just as soon not have to send it back.
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Interesting. I would have assumed that they would have added that to the guns but that would be problematic if that's the case.
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I seem to recall a theory put forward by someone (somewhere) that AA deliberately designs their rifles without an easy means of making power modifications in order to avoid issues with English laws. Personally I have no clue if that’s the case or not, but in as much as the XS is an export item that doesn’t make a lot of sense. I suppose keeping the manufacturing design as consistent as possible between models could be part of that.
I don’t know if I’m sensing a bit frustration on Bob’s part or not but seeing as I have one at home waiting for me, I’m defitely feeling a bit of trepidation. Not WTF!!?? more, “Hmmm...”
I guess it’s “Stay tuned for the next episode...”
George
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Bob, the question is.. is the rifle performing well in your hunting application?
The purpose is of new rifle is more shot count and to kill pest birds and critters..
The purpose is of new rifle is more shot count and to kill pest birds and critters..
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George,
I am frustrated that it's not very consistent, but I'm not, upset. But it does explain why I was hitting birds low from a full 250bar fill.....it wasn't up to peak velocity that I had set in Strelok Pro until after 30 shots.
AA shows 60 shots for 22 caliber.....which makes sense being I got 50 shots from a 195bar fill. Had I started at 200bar, the ES would have been a few fps higher, but it would most likely given me close to 60 shots.
Sucks that the manual says to fill to 250 bar when it should say 200 bar. Obviously the shot count from a full fill is over 90 shots from my testing last night.
The last thing I want to do is be without two guns, so I'm not even thinking about sending it back until I've done further testing. At a minimum my testing will get at least a couple hundred more pellets through it. If it doesn't tighten up after that, then I might start thinking about sending it in....I might.
Matt Dubber put a Lane regulator in his S510 and he was getting an ES of over 20fps.....so mine at 30 isn't "that" far off from his.
I'll update the thread after I get some more Chrono data this evening.
I am frustrated that it's not very consistent, but I'm not, upset. But it does explain why I was hitting birds low from a full 250bar fill.....it wasn't up to peak velocity that I had set in Strelok Pro until after 30 shots.
AA shows 60 shots for 22 caliber.....which makes sense being I got 50 shots from a 195bar fill. Had I started at 200bar, the ES would have been a few fps higher, but it would most likely given me close to 60 shots.
Sucks that the manual says to fill to 250 bar when it should say 200 bar. Obviously the shot count from a full fill is over 90 shots from my testing last night.
The last thing I want to do is be without two guns, so I'm not even thinking about sending it back until I've done further testing. At a minimum my testing will get at least a couple hundred more pellets through it. If it doesn't tighten up after that, then I might start thinking about sending it in....I might.
Matt Dubber put a Lane regulator in his S510 and he was getting an ES of over 20fps.....so mine at 30 isn't "that" far off from his.
I'll update the thread after I get some more Chrono data this evening.
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Yes mark....it does do what it needs to do. I should have even better results on the range and in the field next time being I will start at 200bar.
Thank you Sir, for reminding me why I got this rifle.....to do exactly that. Having single digit ES means nothing if I flub the shot, misread the wind speed or direction, etc.
Dangit I need to order more pellets!!!
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Mark, I know your question was directed at Bob but seeing as I have an expensive dog in the fight here I thought I'd weigh in with my own thoughts. Apologies in advance if I'm completely missing the boat...
As a customer who paid a premium for the XS I know my expectations were of longer shot strings and consistent velocities and low ES right out of the box. I do intend to hunt with this rifle and I can't help but feel that I should have a solid sense of confidence when drawing down on a live target. I'd rather not have to question or disregard the POI for the first dozen or so shots because the velocity is inconsistent. I'm sure I don't have enough experience to sort that out so feel free to educate me if thats irrelevant.
Your question did make me think about a few things relative to hunting. I started looking at charts of regulated vs unregulated shot strings and found this excellent example of a regulated shot string from the Huma-Air website. I have to think that my hunting experience and performance would be better with a rifle characterized by the red string of shots vs the blue. Bob touch on this when he mentioned his shots were hitting low until the velocity came up to speed and were actually in accord with Strelok.
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Hmmmm....so now having said that and reading Bobs response I have to go plug in the opening and closing shot velocities to a ballistics app see how that actually does affect the POI. I really want to get home and break out my XS and chronometer...sitting here on the bench is driving me nuts.
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One of my best days in the woods and on the farms was with the S410 TDR 22 late last Spring. I didn't miss anything with that gun. From five 20 yd squirrels to two 40 yd woodchucks to two 99 yd pigeons back to back....it was a memorable day.
That gun was unregulated of course but it didn't matter. Only got 30 shots, no big deal. It was so dang comfortable to shoulder and grip, unbelievable really in such a small package.
Now the Ultimate Sporter.....wow, talk about being made for me.....the stock is just a dream! It's long and heavy, no denying that, but it is so comfortable and steady to shoot, and that was what I wanted.....a gun that felt natural to shoot, one where I didn't feel like I had to make the shot happen each time, rather the shot would just happen with little effort.
I will do lots more chrono testing in the next couple of days. We have rain in the forecast for several days but I will get out again on the bench to shoot new groups, weather permitting.
Here's a 50-yd target from last weekend (5 and 10-shot groups) with JSB 15.89 on the left, 18.13 on the right, and NSA 19gr slugs in the middle (just one 5-shot group). This was from 240 bar so the shot consistency wasn't even there.
That gun was unregulated of course but it didn't matter. Only got 30 shots, no big deal. It was so dang comfortable to shoulder and grip, unbelievable really in such a small package.
Now the Ultimate Sporter.....wow, talk about being made for me.....the stock is just a dream! It's long and heavy, no denying that, but it is so comfortable and steady to shoot, and that was what I wanted.....a gun that felt natural to shoot, one where I didn't feel like I had to make the shot happen each time, rather the shot would just happen with little effort.
I will do lots more chrono testing in the next couple of days. We have rain in the forecast for several days but I will get out again on the bench to shoot new groups, weather permitting.
Here's a 50-yd target from last weekend (5 and 10-shot groups) with JSB 15.89 on the left, 18.13 on the right, and NSA 19gr slugs in the middle (just one 5-shot group). This was from 240 bar so the shot consistency wasn't even there.
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I believe someone once said in this thread..."Thank you Sir, for reminding me why I got this rifle…..",
I need to remind myself about that a bit more often.
George
(But by cracky I wish the rifle was spitting them out at consistently with a 250 Bar fill... lol!)
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NP at all.. I just sometimes read all this info about Chrony and ES and SD etc.. and think we'll darn am I doing this all wrong..
I shoot prairie dogs loooooong range with PB's. ( powder burners) the guy I hunt with is an excellent marksman and takes it to extremes regarding loading, free bore, bla bla bla.. I about drove myslef nuts (if that is possible / already there) trying to get my rifles dialed in to a 1/4 moa.. then hit me I was just trying to kill a critter. I relaxed and had two first shot kills at 524 yds and 514 yds this year in WY.. ( Savage 22-250 / Shilen bbl / 50 gr Vmax)
Anyway, if you're hunting critters out of doors you got a whole lot more to worry about than what a piece of paper tells you. Wind, critter/ target moving, bbl angle, position / prop method.. etc, etc.
Not trying to a pain here, just my $0.02..
I shoot prairie dogs loooooong range with PB's. ( powder burners) the guy I hunt with is an excellent marksman and takes it to extremes regarding loading, free bore, bla bla bla.. I about drove myslef nuts (if that is possible / already there) trying to get my rifles dialed in to a 1/4 moa.. then hit me I was just trying to kill a critter. I relaxed and had two first shot kills at 524 yds and 514 yds this year in WY.. ( Savage 22-250 / Shilen bbl / 50 gr Vmax)
Anyway, if you're hunting critters out of doors you got a whole lot more to worry about than what a piece of paper tells you. Wind, critter/ target moving, bbl angle, position / prop method.. etc, etc.
Not trying to a pain here, just my $0.02..
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No mark, you're right....not a pain at all.
I shoot factory ammo out of my 6.5 Creedmoor - Hornady American Gunner 140gr - and can hit the 6" round steel plate at 600 yds 3 out of 4 times most days.
Guys there tell me I need to hand load and I ask, "Why, these are shooting great" and they tell me because I can cut my groups in half. I tell them it already shoots half MOA at 300 and I don't bench shoot, rather I hunt and just like to ring steel at the range. And they are somehow put off by that and walk away.....but not before telling me I need to have a Leupold scope if I want to shoot at 600 yds.
Sorry for the rant.....I have to put up with that crap about half the time I go there. I'd love to shoot critters or coyotes at long range...some day I'll make it out there.
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I shoot factory ammo out of my 6.5 Creedmoor - Hornady American Gunner 140gr - and can hit the 6" round steel plate at 600 yds 3 out of 4 times most days.
Guys there tell me I need to hand load and I ask, "Why, these are shooting great" and they tell me because I can cut my groups in half. I tell them it already shoots half MOA at 300 and I don't bench shoot, rather I hunt and just like to ring steel at the range. And they are somehow put off by that and walk away.....but not before telling me I need to have a Leupold scope if I want to shoot at 600 yds.
Sorry for the rant.....I have to put up with that crap about half the time I go there. I'd love to shoot critters or coyotes at long range...some day I'll make it out there.
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Yes sir Bob, I call em "range hounds".. I don't go to a range anymore.. too many on lookers and I can probably out "kill" 95% of them..
Now get out there and shoot that fine new rifle and continue to make the best hunting videos on this site..
Now get out there and shoot that fine new rifle and continue to make the best hunting videos on this site..
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Thanks Mark!
The "range" hounds don't have much to say when the small plate at 600 gets banged though! I think they get upset when an off the rack gun out shoots their guns that they have lots more money invested in.
There was one guy though who I watched shoot a 5-shot half inch group at 300 yds....he was very decent though....no arrogance about him, and he had more into his scope than my whole setup.....plus his rifle was about $10k.
Back to the Ultimate Sporter.....tonight's charts were better. I will do more tomorrow, but so far I figure the best starting fill pressure is going to be around 220bar for 60 shots with the first and last shot ending up around the same velocity and maybe an ES of around 30 is what my guess is.
I also tried power level 4 and the ES would have been 10 had I stopped at shot 45, but it dropped 22fps in the last 5 shots....that was from a 200 bar fill. Seemed to give tighter ES at the expense of 30fps drop in average velocity, but no increase in efficiency.
One big difference from tonight compared to last night was I didn't have the tank hooked up for the gauge reading tonight since I had already determined at what pressure it would fall off the reg. So it seems maybe there was enough pressure in the line to help it get the extra 10 shots.
I did one string from 210 bar and could see where the "curve" was moving up compared to the 200 bar fill. That's why I think 220 bar migh end up being good a good start for an even curve while also getting the claimed 60 shots.
The "range" hounds don't have much to say when the small plate at 600 gets banged though! I think they get upset when an off the rack gun out shoots their guns that they have lots more money invested in.
There was one guy though who I watched shoot a 5-shot half inch group at 300 yds....he was very decent though....no arrogance about him, and he had more into his scope than my whole setup.....plus his rifle was about $10k.
Back to the Ultimate Sporter.....tonight's charts were better. I will do more tomorrow, but so far I figure the best starting fill pressure is going to be around 220bar for 60 shots with the first and last shot ending up around the same velocity and maybe an ES of around 30 is what my guess is.
I also tried power level 4 and the ES would have been 10 had I stopped at shot 45, but it dropped 22fps in the last 5 shots....that was from a 200 bar fill. Seemed to give tighter ES at the expense of 30fps drop in average velocity, but no increase in efficiency.
One big difference from tonight compared to last night was I didn't have the tank hooked up for the gauge reading tonight since I had already determined at what pressure it would fall off the reg. So it seems maybe there was enough pressure in the line to help it get the extra 10 shots.
I did one string from 210 bar and could see where the "curve" was moving up compared to the 200 bar fill. That's why I think 220 bar migh end up being good a good start for an even curve while also getting the claimed 60 shots.
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Same with that last chart with the 14.3gr pellets.....had I stopped at shot 45, the ES would be less than 20. So a higher starting pressure should give the extra 10 shots and hopefully move the curve up so the 60th shot comes before it drops off the reg.
If the extra 10 bar at the start doesn't drop the starting velocity too much, ES should be below 30 and I will be happy with that. And also maybe it will get a bit better with some more shots. After tomorrow I will have about 700 pellets through it....more than enough to consider it broken in.
If the extra 10 bar at the start doesn't drop the starting velocity too much, ES should be below 30 and I will be happy with that. And also maybe it will get a bit better with some more shots. After tomorrow I will have about 700 pellets through it....more than enough to consider it broken in.
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Those strings are much flatter than what you posted yesterday. There should be no reason that you can't fill to 250 Bar and expect the same results. If your reg is working correctly, your valve shouldn't know the difference between 180 and 250 Bar tank pressure. It looks like the gun just needs time to break in.
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I agree Eagle. Here are the final charts for an even-ended shot string while getting Air Arms claimed 60 shots.
Max power and Power Lvl 4.
220bar starting pressure.
Max power and Power Lvl 4.
220bar starting pressure.
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