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A true child size springer of good quality. Does anyone think there is a market?
- Thread starter Crank
- Start date
HW made the model 25. Doesn't look like they are made anymore but you might find one used. The action is largely based on the mechanics of the Beeman P1/HW45. Also the older Diana model 23. They are small enough that they make a HW30 feel bulky. In 177 they shoot mid 500's. I have a Hyscore 813 in 22cal and it's a great 'Wasp killer" at 375 fps ;-) They were also marketed under different companies like Winchester as the model 423. Diana also made their 6G pistols into a recoiless youth carbine as the model 72. There was also a model 70 based on the 5G pistol. I had a 72 and the previous mentioned RWS youth rifles. There is probably more under different names but I'm just working off memory.
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HW25 if you can find one. AoA used to import them. Maybe they could still get one. I have an old BSA Cadet that was my Dad’s when he was a kid back in the ‘40’s. It’s perfect but would be hard to find in the USA.
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I shot a Diana 72 a number of years ago and it was pretty nice. The gentleman that owned it introduced his young grandson to shooting using this gun. Rare now and very pricy if you can find one.
Makes me wonder if a FWB 65 could be fitted into a small rifle stock fitted for that purpose. They are very accurate and fairly powerful. I am quite sure a youngster could load it if taught proper technique. Having it in a rifle stock would also make it easier to load.
Tim
Makes me wonder if a FWB 65 could be fitted into a small rifle stock fitted for that purpose. They are very accurate and fairly powerful. I am quite sure a youngster could load it if taught proper technique. Having it in a rifle stock would also make it easier to load.
Tim
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I love your idea! I have thought about cutting the LOP and chopping the barrel on a HW30s to make something like you describe. Pictured here is Sean. I believe he was 5 or 6 when this was taken. He is 8 now. He has no problem cocking the standard size 30 but the LOP is still too long. On a bench it's fine since the rifle is rested but to support it himself holding it to his shoulder is too cumbersome. He can do it but it's not natural. This is a Slavia 618 he is shooting in the picture.
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Like stated above, Weihrauch made the HW25 up untill a few years ago. I ordered one when my son was 2, he is 11 now and still uses it. It is way smaller and lighter than the HW30.
What is also way different is that the trigger is heavy and very safe. It is meant to instill trigger awareness (for lack of better word) and prevent accidental shooting. It works well.
It was expensive (about 160Euro, or double price of a comparable gamo, which i believe is still being sold) I choose to pay for quality, as even in Europe it is unlikely to ever be banned, and hence can be used as an heirloom.
But it is no longer being sold - That should tell you something. I believe this is due to increasing anti-gun cultue in Europe, and apparently market in US wasjust not there for such expensive youthgun at the time.
What is also way different is that the trigger is heavy and very safe. It is meant to instill trigger awareness (for lack of better word) and prevent accidental shooting. It works well.
It was expensive (about 160Euro, or double price of a comparable gamo, which i believe is still being sold) I choose to pay for quality, as even in Europe it is unlikely to ever be banned, and hence can be used as an heirloom.
But it is no longer being sold - That should tell you something. I believe this is due to increasing anti-gun cultue in Europe, and apparently market in US wasjust not there for such expensive youthgun at the time.
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I just wanted to send these to show the specs 29" long weighs just a little over 2 lbs and you're right the wood is insane very pretty gun. If you could make springers into something like that, I don't think you could make them fast enough. Check out the grain on the stock.
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Great input gents! I was especially fascinated with the reference to the RWS 72. As I have an RWS 6G that I refreshed the seal in, it would be interesting to recreate the concept of the 72 in a miniature sporter stock. No particular reason, just because...
Overall, it seems that there have been some better quality diminutive rifles, but I'm showing up a bit late. I'll keep an eye out for some of these examples so I can study them.
I appreciate what I have learned from other members. You have shown me that there have been some delightful small rifles in the past.
Mark
Overall, it seems that there have been some better quality diminutive rifles, but I'm showing up a bit late. I'll keep an eye out for some of these examples so I can study them.
I appreciate what I have learned from other members. You have shown me that there have been some delightful small rifles in the past.
Mark
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wethy,
You posted while I was typing. You nailed the concept of my inquiry. That kind of aesthetic quality coupled with minimal length and extreme light weight. That's exactly what I was trying to convey in my initial inquiry.
Mark
You posted while I was typing. You nailed the concept of my inquiry. That kind of aesthetic quality coupled with minimal length and extreme light weight. That's exactly what I was trying to convey in my initial inquiry.
Mark
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I have a cz 634 that is very easy to cock and would be a dream when I was kid vs pumping a daisy 880...one cock vs ten pumps but who knows maybe that one cock would be hard when I was 11 lol
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I've bought to of these for a friends kids. They are nice and available in 2 models. Good youth gun $70 in colors for girls and guys.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/alpha/
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/alpha/
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One thing I've found on youth Springer's, and I love shooting them. Best indoor fun you can have. 25 to 30 feet of pure joy and smiles.
There are plenty of them out there if you look. You might need to do the work on them but you will get some fine little shooters. It's hard to improve on the ones they made in the past.
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I think the Diana models 70 and 72, as mentioned above, are pretty close to what you're thinking about - brilliant adaptations of the classic old models 5 and 6 pistols. The model 72 was the tiniest honest-to-goodness recoilless springer match rifle ever made by a long shot - 32 inches long and less than 5 pounds!
Construction of these was most interesting: trigger moved rearward from the original pistol designs (no doubt required some tricky engineering!); standard Diana rifle sight, with a neat attachment that turned it into a match diopter; tunnel front sight with a set of inserts; buttplate spacers let the stock grow with the owner; kept the original pistol barrels - with a "bloop tube" for sight radius, balance, and a cocking aid.
Here's a catalog shot and the link below has many more pics.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/post-war-diana-air-rifles/diana-model-72/#post-2483
Construction of these was most interesting: trigger moved rearward from the original pistol designs (no doubt required some tricky engineering!); standard Diana rifle sight, with a neat attachment that turned it into a match diopter; tunnel front sight with a set of inserts; buttplate spacers let the stock grow with the owner; kept the original pistol barrels - with a "bloop tube" for sight radius, balance, and a cocking aid.
Here's a catalog shot and the link below has many more pics.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/post-war-diana-air-rifles/diana-model-72/#post-2483
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Mike at flying dragon used to carry this but I don't think they sell many so stoped. I have had the chance to shoot one sweet little gun. Xsisco XS12
Kids today dont want a airgun. They want another video game.
Kids today dont want a airgun. They want another video game.
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septicdeath,
That's quite some collection of little rifles and some examples of fairly contemporary rifles that have existed in recent times.
I have to say, the RWS 70 and 72 seem to be everything I could ask for and as is usual for me, they are of course long out of production. If rifles as nice as that were available and are gone now, pretty much answers my original question. Unfortunately, that answer is that actual desire to purchase a rifle like that is pretty low.
Mark
That's quite some collection of little rifles and some examples of fairly contemporary rifles that have existed in recent times.
I have to say, the RWS 70 and 72 seem to be everything I could ask for and as is usual for me, they are of course long out of production. If rifles as nice as that were available and are gone now, pretty much answers my original question. Unfortunately, that answer is that actual desire to purchase a rifle like that is pretty low.
Mark
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I had a model 70 briefly when they were new. And now, with young grandkids growing up too fast, I wish I still had it!
I do recall the guns seemed quite pricey for what they were, though - especially the complex double-piston model 72 - and the lack of a safety may have presented regulatory or liability limitations. And to be honest, Diana's marketing in those days was awful - RWS's catalogs and magazine ads for the US, at least, were laughably amateurish compared to Beeman's stuff. So, possibly the models 70 and 72 were not a reflection of the true market potential.
So to answer your original question - IMHO, yes, there would be a market for a good small springer at reasonable cost, and I think a similarly converted barrel-cociking pistol action would be a good way to go about it.
I do recall the guns seemed quite pricey for what they were, though - especially the complex double-piston model 72 - and the lack of a safety may have presented regulatory or liability limitations. And to be honest, Diana's marketing in those days was awful - RWS's catalogs and magazine ads for the US, at least, were laughably amateurish compared to Beeman's stuff. So, possibly the models 70 and 72 were not a reflection of the true market potential.
So to answer your original question - IMHO, yes, there would be a market for a good small springer at reasonable cost, and I think a similarly converted barrel-cociking pistol action would be a good way to go about it.
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