A true child size springer of good quality. Does anyone think there is a market?

To establish a dividing line as to what I mean, there are still a number of springers that are based on adult sized actions with reduced size stocks. Most of these still run around 5lbs in weight and are a chunky handful as they were larger to begin with. Those can be used by smaller shooters, but still a bit too much for some.

In the firearms world there is the Cricket rifle, it is marginally usable by an adult since it is so petite. If anyone happens to have or has handled a Slavia 618, you will know that it's completely scaled down springer. 

I have a Slavia 618 that my grandfather owned and he would sit in the living room with me and we would shoot across the room at a phone book with a target on it.That sat under the black and white television that was the only one in that multi-family house in South Boston.

After having it follow me around for the past several decades, I pulled it apart to see how it looked and the piston cup was mush. I honed the cylinder, made a new seal out of teflon and amazingly, it will fling a 7.9gr pellet at 440-444fps shot after shot. To say that I was surprised was an understatement. 

It got me thinking, nobody makes anything this small today, at least that I can find out there. So my question is, would anyone want to buy a reasonable quality, mid-priced springer that would be specifically made for really small shooters? I want to emphasize, this would not be made with the expectation of making crazy power, or 100yd accuracy, but something well made, accurate, good trigger and a power range of 3.5-4fpe. 

Small size won't mean inexpensive, a good barrel doesn't care how big or small it is, nor does a quality trigger, a nice piece of walnut and machine work certainly doesn't care about size, only tolerances. With that established, as there isn't a ready to go manufacturer, you would be looking at a small manufacturer with a higher cost per unit to stay afloat and a rifle like this could easily start at $400 and be higher than that depending on how refined it was. 

Keep in mind, a barrel blank from LW starts at over $130, and a Rekord trigger $130, those being with shipping for a single unit. Add in other costs and you see what I mean. I'm not trying to get into logistics of bulk purchases that would reduce unit costs, because without assured financial backing coupled with buyer demand, those reduced costs are pipe dreams. 

Sure, you could make a deal with some Chinese manufacturer for a low cost option of indiscriminate quality, but that's not what I'm asking about here. 

Think about your reply and I will look forward to what people have to say.

Mark
 
I could be wrong, but I think it would sell, but in numbers great enough to make a profit or ensure company growth, that is questionable, there are a small number of small, lightweight, easy to cock break barrel air rifles currently being offered by several outlets, the guns are produced in China by Airgun Industries, BAM, and Xisico, they are marketed as rifles made specifically for children and small people, they aren't bad quality, are fairly accurate, shoot under 500 fps. and priced under $200.00.

If you can offer the same or better quality for the same or less money you might just have a winner, IMHO.
 
Homer,

At least for the examples I have seen, the tube diameter is a fair amount larger. The 618 is about 1" outside diameter and has a length of pull around 11"-ish. 

The "same or better quality for less money" is what I'm saying is unrealistic and would people pay for a better quality item is the heart of the matter, but your tracking closer.

Thanks

Mark
 
Homer,

At least for the examples I have seen, the tube diameter is a fair amount larger. The 618 is about 1" outside diameter and has a length of pull around 11"-ish. 

The "same or better quality for less money" is what I'm saying is unrealistic and would people pay for a better quality item is the heart of the matter, but your tracking closer.

Thanks

Mark

Mark, I'm sure that some folks would buy based on better quality of build, fit and finish and especially of performance, I'm just wondering about numbers, would there be enough buyers to make such an investment profitable, chances are the buyers would be adults buying for their children with the expectation that they would outgrow then within a few years and have to replace it with something a bit bigger and a bit more powerful.

When one stops to consider the market for smaller less powerful air guns they find that it varied, Daisy, Crossman, Sheridan, and Benjamin all offer child sized air guns in varying quality and type for under $100.00 of which more than a few are well built and accurate, the Benjamin QB-78 Co2 .177 rifle for example is extremely accurate, affordable, good looking, and light weight, and it sells for $88.00 at most venders, Flying Dragon offers a wood stocked Break barrel .177 cal. child sized air rifle made by Xisico arms which Mike checks out and tunes before shipping for free, all for $130.00, and that's just a sample.

Believe me, I'm not trying to discourage you, but you did ask for opinions, I'm just looking at it in a practical sense.
 
I think it's a good idea. This is what I taught my kids with and a lot of others. Different power level but the same concept. The kids have all had an absolute blast with it and then others, The small one is called a Cricket. made back in the 50s and such think this one is 55 it shoots 22 lr single shot to load pull bolt back then put a shell in. Then they have to pull back a knob to ready the gun then it's set. 29" total length. The other Is my 52 JC Higgins I put in to show the length difference 42". Kids like the fact the stock comes up and fits them. Also you can show them how to hold and all the other. Taught open sight first then put the little scope on. Like teaching how to drive with a clutch then go to automatics.

JPW

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Homer,

Your input is completely welcome, I guess it comes down to one of those scenarios that the Chipmunk and Cricket rifles posed in the firearms world. The original Chipmunk was extremely well made, accurate and had a piece of walnut on it that would shame many of the large companies. It was more expensive than a Ruger 10/22 and was nothing more than a manually cocked, single shot. It seemed way too much of a niche market, but I remember them flying off the shelves at the gun store I worked at in rural Arizona 30 years ago. We were buying them in quantities up to 20 at a time. Adults were hard pressed to shoot them comfortably, but that didn't stop people from buying them as backpack rifles. Over the years they hardly ever turned up used, nobody wanted to give them up. 

Lots of dirt cheap .22's were modified to do the same thing and mimic the form factor as best as they could, but there was a strong affinity to those little purpose built rifles. I guess that is what I'm curious about. I'm not looking to go into business, but I might try to make my own version just for fun and as a technical challenge. I can make everything except a barrel, but LW can help me out there. 

I was mostly just curious were there other people that had an interest in a high quality springer in a diminutive size. No practical reason, but just because.

Mark
 
HW30 is too large, too heavy, and the length of pull too long for most children. If BSA can market the Ultra JSR pcp rifle to young shooters, I don't see why some one can't do the same with a springer. Especially if they make inserts to allow the user to adjust the length of pull as the child grows.

My grandsons like shooting their Daisy bb guns, but once they shot my 2400KT and saw the difference in accuracy, they'll shoot it over their bb guns anytime. They also like my 397, but a 9 year old tires quickly with all the pumping.
 
Scouty,

That would be a viable way to get close to the idea I'm thinking about, however, the barrel would need to be longer to improve leverage for a truly small shooter with limited upper body strength. Personally, I would relocate the trigger to the rear to make for a more conventional stock, but the pistol carbine concept has potential. Especially if the grip can be reduced in overall size for little hands.

Mark
 
Probably not at all what you are after, looking for or what's in the back of your mind, but...

I put together a Talon-P for a friends son (dad passed on) It's a .177 with the .07 diameter ring-loc top hat. Built a cheap can to keep it quiet using a baffle out of a NP Trail baffle from Pyramid (6 bucks) and a piece of 7/8 id tube, made the adapter. Length of pull was like 9 and a half inches, longer if you extended the stock. Weights 3.5 lbs or so. And if I give him a full fill on the bottle he runs out of pellets before he runs out of air. Shoots 7.9g at around 500 fps if I remember correctly. 

I also have a Talon-P carbine. Fun gun, very adjustable and a blast to play with. 


 
Lothar Walther barreled Daisy 853 from CMP program $120 easy to pump single stroke super accurate around 490-500fps. Otherwise the 753s $239-$249-$259 new synethic. Highly recommended or pay $200 for the wooden stocked version. 

PA $249 backorder AGD $259 in stock strange same company several price differences there vs PA. $239 direct from Daisy.

Use discount codes if you wanna save money (OR NOT).

Easy to pump and pretty darn quiet with a TKO.

Use their 10 meter sights or use a scope with adjustable mounts due to barrel droop.

Only negatives trigger needs work but can get used to and wears in fine as is with use and fat fingers may take learning to load point downward angle canted to left to losd easier. Child would have much easier time loading it.

Don't get too bored shooting it since its really accurate no Springer kick it's a single stroke pneumatic.

Got several of them different versions all with factory Lothar Walther barrels highly recommended.


 
Other readers silently looking in can learn too by off track suggestions as well.

Back to the Springer specificlly the originally priced $40-$60 300-400fps Springer comes to mind Marksman1790 biathlon trainer easy to shoot light super easy to cock for a child.

I have one of these somewhere.

https://youtu.be/cuJYrpT6clY

https://youtu.be/YEkeV188rn4