A tale of Two Compressors

Hi Kids!

The beginning of last summer sometime I purchased a Daystate LC110 mainly because I was sick and tired of going through the pain of loading up my big freakin storage tank, and 4 or 5 SCBA tanks, and making the 45 minute drive to the paintball shop. We also got 2 more storage tanks to make a cascade system over the subsequent weeks.

I thought my air problems were over. I was wrong.

By late summer the LC110 would only fill my tanks to 250 bar, and I had to change the oil every 4 or 5 hours because it turned a very dark brown and was just gross. It turns out that the oil that came with the compressor wasnt the right kind. It also became apparent that the Coltri MHC-3 pump used by Daystate is not at all suitable for use with a cascade system.

I sent the compressor in for warranty repairs, and after several months of waiting, and many emails I was sent a brand new one! Yay! Of course that still left me with an unsuitable compressor for my needs.

You would be correct in saying that the LC110 is a good compressor for filling SCBA tanks, or airguns. However, I cannot abide waiting the 20 minutes or so for the compressor to fill up a SCBA bottle, especially when I'm shooting. The time to fill up a SCBA tank from my cascade system which consists of three 430ish CF bottles is a couple minutes at most, or quicker if I really want.

The search actually began while my LC110 was out for repair. I was back to using the painball shop and it annoyed the heck out of me, especially because the surplus compressor the shop uses had no water/oil separator that I could discern, 

I actually made a large down payment on a Daystate T2 (Coltri MCH-6) but after reading multiple places that it too was unsuitable for my cascade system I spent that money on miscellaneous parts and pieces, and the search continued.

My initial criteria for a compressor was that it be considered a continuous duty unit. It also needed to be at least capable of 3cfm or more, and it should have auto drain. Of course, another major major concern was the cost.

So, then we were hit by the 2020 plague. My health declined, and so did my ability to generate billable hours. My Daughter applied for unemployment right away so she didn't have any of the problems some people had. So with what I was able to make, and her UI we were doing good. My partner also returned from wherever her runs off to when the winter hits, so we were actually quite flush.

With all my bills paid, and money in the bank I decided to pull the trigger on an Alkin W31. It doesn't have the auto condensate drain but I'm used to that and it wasn't worth an additional $1000 I didn't have to get that option.Other than that it met all my criteria.

So, you would think that a month later I'd have at least 25 hours on it, and would be able to give y'all a better review. But alas, I had 3 cardiac events over as many weeks. My trigger time dropped to nearly nil, as did my air consumption. As of Monday I had 1.1 hours on the unit, which was basically the slight break in we did when it arrived to make sure it wasn't going to explode.

Monday morning I woke up and felt good enough finally to revisit my new toy that I had been neglecting. I first opened the valve partway on one of my cascade tanks. and hour or so later I went to check on it and the pressure was down to below 100bar. Good enough I figured, so after chipping the ice & frost off the valve, and drying it off well I hooked up both my Omega filters, turned on the Alkin and waited 5 minutes for it to warm up before I closed all the drain valves.

The racket the Alkin initially makes is scary. It sounds like the insides of it are about to be outside of it. It's very disconcerting for sure, but totally normal if you're expecting it, which I was. It quiets down in seconds when under pressure. It isn't a quiet compressor, but neither is it oppressively loud. I didn't need ear protection in my garage which I had closed so as not to disturb my neighbor.

In any event, I hooked up my baby monitor and went back into the house fully expecting for the filling to take at least 3 hours, which would be considerably less time than the LC110 took to fill it from 225 bar.

Freakin' A!

It was done in 1.5 hours! Even with me draining the condensate every 12 minutes. I actually thought something was wrong with my gauges for a minute. I opened up all the big tanks and the pressure dropped to 4050psi. Another 30 minuets and they all were topped off!

So, now that I have extensive experience (3.2hrs :p) I'm happy so far.

But, it's not all roses. There are several things to be aware of. The compressor doesn't come with a plug, and the one I got requires single phase(w/e the hell that means) 220v. There are models that requre 3 phase (is that 3 times better?) 220v, as well as engine powered. I have a fuse box (yes fuse) in my garage that feeds off the main circuit breaker in the house. I had to spend a bit of money on an electrician to come run wire, install a socket, and put on the plug. $300 total. Also again, it isn't quiet. If you have neighbors very close to where you have the compressor You won't be doing any drunken 2am fills. It's also heavy as hell. I couldn't hardly move it, let alone lift it. I had to pay a neighbor (a rack of smoked ribs) to help me get it where I wanted it.

OK, finally a couple of positive notes. When I filled my Cascade tanks it was 85 degrees with humidity nearing that of a sauna. With a laser thermometer I had hardly any heat increase after running under pressure for 10 minutes. Awesome indeed! Another great thing is that the scheduled maintenance schedule is amazing. For instance, it calls for an oil change every 100 hours. Another item requires a yearly service assuming 8 hours a day of use.

I wish I really did have the 25 hours on it, although as fast as this unit is I doubt I'd have anywhere near that even if we had been shooting like usual.

Because of the heat, humidity, and the volume of air I was sticking into the first tank, I ran 2 additional Omegas. Usually one is used between the Cascade and a SCBA tank when filling. I also had an additional fan blowing on the unit, although I'm thinking it was unnecessary.

So, I now have a continuous use compressor, with a nearly new(5hrs) Daystate LC110 for backup. I should be ecstatic right? Well, in retrospect I wish I had spent the additional money I didn't have on the auto condensate drain. My room is on the second story of my house and going up and down those stairs every 10-15 minutes with a stupid heart sucks, although my cardiologist would approve of the exercise. the sadist bastid!





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Great post! You are a power user for sure. I've taken the same steps as you upgrading from an LC-110 to an Alkin W31. My LC-110 never gave me problems and I'd recommend it for single tank owners as it is a well made single tank fill compressor. It isn't suited for runs over an hour or cascade tank fills. The Alkin W31 will serve you well.

We all wish you a speedy recovery from your cardiac issues. 
 
Loved this post, read it top to bottom without missing a word. I was always amazed at your LC-110 setup with the cascade setup and it was one of the reasons I went with my LC-110. Very glad everything is working well for you. Looks like the electrician did well that looks like 10ga four conductor romex. Want to say it's rated for 30 amp. That stuff... you literally have to wrestle with it in a socket!

Thanks for sharing with us!
 
Loved this post, read it top to bottom without missing a word. I was always amazed at your LC-110 setup with the cascade setup and it was one of the reasons I went with my LC-110. Very glad everything is working well for you. Looks like the electrician did well that looks like 10ga four conductor romex. Want to say it's rated for 30 amp. That stuff... you literally have to wrestle with it in a socket!

Thanks for sharing with us!

I do believe the LC110 is far superior than the Chinese offerings at this point. Had the mixup with the oil not occurred, and had it not had the pressure thing, I probably would have sold 2 of my large tanks and not bought the Alkin.

But I do like having it as a spare for now.
 
Great post and thanks for the information. It appears you are running pretty much the ideal setup with perhaps a certain amount of over kill? 
You have the water separator on the Alkin plus two inline filters. Do you think that is necessary or are you using it just because you can? In addition you have three tanks in your cascade set up. Is that a benefit?
I’m just asking to get your opinion on what you would consider the “ideal” set up if you were starting from the beginning. Clearly the auto drain you see as a benefit. I’m thinking for the vast majority of us an Alkin filling directly to a SCBA tank would be about perfect and as fast as that unit is it would be no problem sitting with the unit and draining the system once or so while filling . Is the extra money spent justified in retrospect?
I know it’s hard to advise others. Seems like there is a lot there for one persons use. 
I’m considering what I might do in the near future . I want to do it right without over doing it. I bet a lot of others are considering the same.. I shoot a lot but do I shoot enough to go cascade and do I need the auto drain? Can you offer your opinion ? 
 
Great post and thanks for the information. It appears you are running pretty much the ideal setup with perhaps a certain amount of over kill? 
You have the water separator on the Alkin plus two inline filters. Do you think that is necessary or are you using it just because you can? In addition you have three tanks in your cascade set up. Is that a benefit?
I’m just asking to get your opinion on what you would consider the “ideal” set up if you were starting from the beginning. Clearly the auto drain you see as a benefit. I’m thinking for the vast majority of us an Alkin filling directly to a SCBA tank would be about perfect and as fast as that unit is it would be no problem sitting with the unit and draining the system once or so while filling . Is the extra money spent justified in retrospect?
I know it’s hard to advise others. Seems like there is a lot there for one persons use. 
I’m considering what I might do in the near future . I want to do it right without over doing it. I bet a lot of others are considering the same.. I shoot a lot but do I shoot enough to go cascade and do I need the auto drain? Can you offer your opinion ?

The setup I have is the end result of years of evolution that started with my first PCP. Perhaps a simplified timeline would help.

The first airgun I purchased as an since I moved to this house was a pink Crossman pump for $39 to control the squirrel infestation in my back yard. It was nothing like the pump gun my father bought me as a child. It was plastic, under powered, an inaccurate.

I then spent $100 on a Crossman break barrel. This gun had the power to kill squirrels, but I couldn't hit anything with it, and it was loud.

I then moved to PCP. I actually did my due diligence this time, sorta. I first made sure I had a local place to get air (no way was I gonna pump), then I bought a used 30 min Scott SCBA tank, a Benjamin Discovery, and a higher end UTG scope. That's when the addiction began.

It was soon apparent that one 30 minute tank wasn't going to work for long. I purchased a 45 min tank off Ebay, and a Hawk scope to replace the PoS UTG.

By then I had decided that single shot rifles were a pain in the butt, so i bought a .25 Marauder, a Hawke Sidewinder and a bunch of mags. I also gave my Disco to my Daughter which started her on her addiction, and joined the local gun club to shoot at longer distances. 

We soon got tired of driving the 45 mins to the paintball shop evertime we wanted to shoot so I added a couple more SCBA tanks. 3 of the 4 tanks I had then were expired, but if I came around to the back door of the shop he'd fill them any way. The reason I mention that is because if he hadn't done that my addiction would have ended. At that time I wasn't prepared to spend the kind of money it would have cost to buy multiple new tanks.

I started watching too many youtube vids. FX Impacts were the hot thing, but I thought they were ugly, and way too expensive. I figured I could invest a little money into my Marauder and get similar results. After nearly $1000 later I came to the realization that I was a fool.

The next summer the FX Crown started showing up in reviews. It was beautiful! I had lust in my heart for sure. Then, it won the 2017 Benchrest and I was sold. After a 2 month wait my new Crown arrived in the first shipment that us real humans could get. 

The summer of 2018 brought more SCBA tanks. I believe I had 6 or 7 at that time. I found a 430cf storage tank at a local fire safety supply place for $225. I also learned about cascading.

This setup was great, save for the real hassle of loading up that heavy tank. I could not do it my self at all, but me and my Daughter could manage.

I finally bought a Impact, and my Dsughter bought one of those aweful Gauntlets. I'm not at all sure how, but our air usage increased, which required more trips to the paintball shop. By then it was a real endeavour. It was a 45 min drive to get there, at least an hour to fill the storage & SCBA tanks. If he was busy it could be 2 hours. Then 45 mins home. 

This was not optimal at all but we made do until I had another cardiac event. Loading up the storage tank was no longer an option, so I ended up buying the LC110 and discarded the oldest of my old tanks.

I then bought 3 new Acecare tanks at a great price. My Ex-husband bought my Crown and started competing at Trenier with our daughter. One of the guys up there ran across a super deal on a bunch of storage tanks, so he bought 2!

Initially I had a gold water/old filter but I decided I should get something better. So I got a Omega to use between the compressor and cascaded tanks, and the gold between the cascade and scba when filling. 

My Daughter bought a Crown, I bought another Impact, and my Ex bought an impact. So, between the 3 of us we have nearly $20, 000 in guns. I figured it might be prudent to take all the precautions I could to make sure they were fed clean & dry air, so I added another filter.

However, 2 filters between the compressor and cascade seemed to take forever to pressurize. In retrospect I think that may have been a warning signal for the problems I had. 

I have no such problem with the much faster Alkin, and while all those filters are probably overkill, I'd rather spend the extra $250 and not spend that money to have the gun resealed or repaired as often.

As you can see my setup is a result of my willingness to spend more money on better equipment as my addiction grew. If I were to lose everything right now I would be replacing things pretty much as is with some changes I already have planned such as another storage tank, the auto drain, and an auto cascade controller.

However, I wouldn't have someone just starting with PCPs my setup.

There is no single right way to create your filling solution. Some people will buy the cheapest Chinese compressor they can while understanding that it will be needing to be repaired and replaced often. People also buy very expired SCBA tanks off ebay. 

Personally I'm now in the buy the best you can camp. Also, one of the hardest things to do is anticipate where you'll be in the sport even a year or two in the future. If you get tired of the sport you wont want to have many many thousands of dollars in stuff you might get 60% of your money out of. Then again, you dont want to spend all your money upgrading all the time. 

I think for most people a LC110 and 2 SCBA bottles would work for a long time. If you were to mostly shoot off the bench I would recommend the Huma inline regulator, and a lot of mags. That allows you to tether your guns to your SCBA tank.

If you know that you're incurably addicted then get the absolute best continuous duty compressor you can afford, and keep your eyes peeled for storage tanks.

Your question on cascade systems is because it's not apparent what the benefit is. It took me a long time to wrap my brain around the physics of it, but I'm blinde.

For example, you can get more fills from two 30 minute tanks than one 60 minute tank. How is this possible when the air volume between the 60 and two 30s are exactly the same?

Well, what you do is use 30min tank A to refil your gun. The volume of air is now less in tank A of course. You keep using tank A until it's pressure falls below the fill pressure allowed by your gun. When that happens you put as much as you can from tank A, then use tank B to top it off. The next time you fill you use Tank A, then tank B to finish. This procedure, while tedious,allows you to use more air at pressure than a single tank. Adding more tanks adds more usable air.

Do a search on youtube for "Cascading air tanks" to find better explanations.

Cheees!



Oh I forgot the main reason for the storage tank setup. Speed when I'm shooting at home. I do more shooting at home than I do at the range because the clubhouse is closed due to plague and I cannot be far from A/C. Early on I developed a hatred for having to wait for air when I was "in the groove". The 2 minutes it takes to fill my SCBA tanks from the storage was usually a nice break, but 30 mins to refill from a compressor if all my bottle were empty sucked. 

The Alkin would have probably mitigated that some, but with the Daystate the fill times were too long for my patience level.








 
Thank you so much. I have to tell you that I did not know I was talking with a lady. Why? because I guess I just wasn’t paying attention and made the assumption that most men do. You know the stereo typing. Glad we can laugh about that and my stupidity . Also glad to know there are woman as deep into this as you and your daughter are.
In my previous life I did some competitive shooting and the ladies who did compete always did well. Using VERY well. Thanks again. 
 
So, Val, even the new ones start off crazy noisy? I thought it was just my 2004 model! Good to know.

What sold me on mine is Gene from ATP whom I bought it from offered to top off my two tanks from 3K to 4500 as a lesson in operating the compressor. When I hooked up the fill hose to the first tank I asked him to get it to exactly a 4500 fill. He flipped the switch off at 4300 because at the angle he was staring at the gage on the fill hose, it looked like 4500. I told him he shut it off too soon.

Now, most compressors if not all, it’s best to depressurize the entire system and start over. Gene said “oh, ok, no biggie” and he flipped that switch on while the compressor was fully pressurized. It was all in slow motion as I yelled NOOOOOOOOooooooo....while reaching for the switch to turn it off, but to my surprise, this W31 2004 model with 35 hours on it didn’t even cough, shake, or sputter. It just trucked along at the same rpm as if it were never even shut off! Looking back, I think Gene purposely did that, as a show and tell, LOL.

So, at that moment, I said SOLD!



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All I’ve done to mine since ownership was get a larger and better sealed air filter housing making air filter elements easier to source, swapped in a new oil and moisture filter, and recently had a gallon of the synthetic compressor oil arrive. These are pics of when I first got it home. 
 
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I wouldn't recommend running it with the stages open for 5 minutes.

I close mine as soon if not before starting. If you notice the banging stops as soon as pressure resistance builds on the 1st piston. 
I have a Stethoscope & if the racket you speak of is on the left side of crankcase cover it's common. These are meant to run at 10 hour intervals. 
Your set up is easy for the Alkin W31 to fill. My starting & stopping it once a week is probably harder on it. 
I only have 5.10 hours on mine but I own springers, shoot bows, play guitar, all after my real life as Dad.

I hope you feel better and wish you good health. 
My advice is directly from a Alkin Technician as I'm a Marketing Rep for Alkin. 




 
https://youtu.be/cCgXmYWJJM0



Why 3rd stage knocks & how to avoid it. 
If yours is knocking constantly contact your Dealer, Alkin directly or I can put you in contact with upper management as I'm a Marketing Rep.

This is about longevity and babying a great compressor that will outlive you & be passed down. I don't like seeing anyone waste their money.

Hope it helps & feel free to ask any questions if knocking isn't where or as I show it to be when started up under no back pressure at all.